Connect 75 Unlimited - Telus trying to force me into $65/1GB

[BoltCrank]

Wow, even old school 1998 websites violate the TOS with their streaming MIDI files...

[RoMu]

According to the New York Attorney Generals Office people were deceived, deceptive trade practices and Verzion had to pay - read the press release from his office

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/200...oct23a_07.html

It very clearly states what was wrong with what Verizon did, what common internet use is and that Since April of 2007, Verizon Wireless has voluntarily ceased cutting off customers based on their data usage and no longer prohibits common internet uses.

Telus is doing exactly the same thing and not even a year after this.

[w4lker]

According to the New York Attorney Generals Office people were deceived, deceptive trade practices and Verzion had to pay - read the press release from his office

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/200...oct23a_07.html

That's a great press release. I think that it bears quoting so that more folks will read it: it's an excellent discussion of exactly what TELUS is doing and exactly why it's wrong.

Verizon Wireless prominently marketed these plans as “’Unlimited,” without disclosing that common usages such as downloading movies or playing games online were prohibited. The company also cut off heavy internet users for exceeding an undisclosed cap of usage per month. As a result, customers misled by the company’s claims, enrolled in its Unlimited plans, only to have their accounts abruptly terminated for excessive use, leaving them without internet services and unable to obtain refunds.

“This settlement sends a message to companies large and small answering the growing consumer demand for wireless services. When consumers are promised an ‘unlimited’ service, they do not expect the promise to be broken by hidden limitations,” said Attorney General Andrew Cuomo. “Consumers must be treated fairly and honestly. Delivering a product is simply not enough – the promises must be delivered as well.”

The Attorney General’s investigation uncovered that while Verizon Wireless prominently placed print, television and online advertisements promising “UNLIMITED” NationalAccess and BroadbandAccess for $59.99 per month:

- “Unlimited” plans had hidden restrictions. Verizon marketed its NationalAccess and BroadbandAccess service plans to consumers nationwide as “Unlimited” despite the plans’ limitations. In fact, the plans only permitted limited activities such as web browsing, email and intranet access. Customers who used their plans for common activities such as downloading movies and video or even playing video games online, were unwittingly in violation of the terms and conditions of their service agreements.

-“Excessive use” of Unlimited Plans resulted in abrupt terminations. Verizon Wireless terminated heavy internet users claiming that the high levels of usage could only have been attained by activities, such as “streaming or downloading movies and video” prohibited by the terms and conditions. These usage restrictions were not clearly and conspicuously disclosed to consumers and directly contradicted the promise of “unlimited” service.

I'm thinking that this is why TELUS is trying to "transition" customers onto other plans. Their legal team probably advised against booting them, because they'd be out-of-pocket for their devices and have a sad story to tell their friends and lawyers.

If TELUS "transitions" the customers to plans that only offer 5% as much value for the same money, then TELUS can always claim that they "suggested" it and the customer accepted.

If they call me, I'm going to ask them to call back in a few minutes and switch on recording software. I'm going to directly and politely refuse to change plans, on the simple grounds that my current plan meets my needs.

Then I'll ask them for an email address, and send them this press release. I'll also send them this thread, so that someone in the PR department can find out that people are coming together to call Shenanigans!

[Tony2468]

All those interested in gaining attention and help, contact:


Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services

Online Complaint form(For those who got a letter): http://www.ccts-cprst.ca/ots/cf/Exis...m.do?locale=en
For those who just want to pass on info: info@ccts-cprst.ca (Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services)

Competition Bureau

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/e.../h_00130e.html
Remember the bureau does not get involved in contract disputes, just file a complaint regarding Telus and their "DECEPTIVE MARKETING PRACTICES". note (74.01 (1)(a) of the Competition Act).
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc...rbo-ga:l_VII_1

Write to:
David McGuinty, M.P. (Ottawa South)
Constituency Office
1883 Bank Street
Ottawa, Ontario
K1V 7Z9
http://www.davidmcguinty.com/english/Home.html

For those interested, you can resolve your demands through arbitration. (15)
http://www.telusmobility.com/about/m...t_policy.shtml


Feel free to add more contacts, it took me 20min to send letters out.

[RoMu]

Tony2468

Thanks for the great contacts

I've already registered a complaint with the CCTS online form

competition and McGuinty next

[RoMu]

Just checked mail CCTS says my complaint falls under their mandate

[phoomp]

If they call me, I'm going to ask them to call back in a few minutes and switch on recording software.

Make sure you tell them that the conversation is being recorded. Not doing so would render your recording useless and could get you into a lot of trouble. Canadian law forbids undisclosed recording of telephone conversations.

[turbogeek]

Make sure you tell them that the conversation is being recorded. Not doing so would render your recording useless and could get you into a lot of trouble. Canadian law forbids undisclosed recording of telephone conversations.

I'm no lawyer, but that has been debated here before.

[tobeychris]

On this topic, anyone know a good WM6 program to record conversations

[w4lker]

Make sure you tell them that the conversation is being recorded. Not doing so would render your recording useless and could get you into a lot of trouble. Canadian law forbids undisclosed recording of telephone conversations.

100% WRONG. You have posted a myth that originates from U.S. law and/or U.S. television shows.

I worked for a lawyer who recorded all his calls as a matter of course. The law in Canada is called One-Party Consent. Only one party to a conversation has to consent to its' recording, and that party can be YOU.

Look it up.

On this topic, anyone know a good WM6 program to record conversations

I use Resco: it works great.

http://www.resco.net/pocketpc/audiorecorder/default.asp

[fr05t]

Ok. I just got off the phone with the telus rep calling around, and managed to get out of my 3 year contract and cancel the service with no penality, and my full deposite back. It wasn't really a level playing field since I knew he wanted to get me off the plan, but he didn't know I knew that. This is your biggest advantage so don't show your hand, and don't mention canceling your service until you have beaten the "What is 'reasonable usage'" horse to death.


Anytime he/she says anything about streaming media mention that pretty well all websites stream ads.

Ask for a specific bandwidth cap. When he/she can't give it to you ask how you are suppose to make sure you don't exceed "reasonable usage".

When he/she uses the phase "anything that will impact other users", ask how you can know the load on the tower you are connected to and how your use is impacting other users? It's not like you can send them a message and ask if things are running slow while you are on CNN.

Mention their terms of service conflicts with their advertising of their product.

The key is to get specifics, which is what they can't give and will try to dance around it. Is 4GB to much? 6, 8, 10? If they can't tell you how much is too much what are you suppose to do to avoid violating the TOS?

Once you have exhausted how there is no way you can correct your usage without them giving you specifics (short of not using the connection) mention the idea of cancelling your plan in a round about way. Like "If I had known there was a cap depending on my location, and other factors outside my control I wouldn't have signed a 3 year contract".

When they mention that the plan can be cancelled, make sure you hit all the bases. No penalty, full deposite back, etc. Even offer to return the aircard.

And finally.. don't forget to get their name (they won't give last name), but if you push a little they'll give you their extention. This way if you do get dinged you can call them back.

Hopefully this helps someone get out of their contract, but it shouldn't be that difficult unless you say something stupid or act like a jerk.

[w4lker]

Ok. I just got off the phone with the telus rep calling around, and managed to get out of my 3 year contract and cancel the service with no penality, and my full deposite back. It wasn't really a level playing field since I knew he wanted to get me off the plan, but he didn't know I knew that. This is your biggest advantage so don't show your hand, and don't mention canceling your service until you have beaten the "What is 'reasonable usage'" horse to death.


Anytime he/she says anything about streaming media mention that pretty well all websites stream ads.

Ask for a specific bandwidth cap. When he/she can't give it to you ask how you are suppose to make sure you don't exceed "reasonable usage".

When he/she uses the phase "anything that will impact other users", ask how you can know the load on the tower you are connected to and how your use is impacting other users? It's not like you can send them a message and ask if things are running slow while you are on CNN.

Mention their terms of service conflicts with their advertising of their product.

The key is to get specifics, which is what they can't give and will try to dance around it. Is 4GB to much? 6, 8, 10? If they can't tell you how much is too much what are you suppose to do to avoid violating the TOS?

Once you have exhausted how there is no way you can correct your usage without them giving you specifics (short of not using the connection) mention the idea of cancelling your plan in a round about way. Like "If I had known there was a cap depending on my location, and other factors outside my control I wouldn't have signed a 3 year contract".

When they mention that the plan can be cancelled, make sure you hit all the bases. No penalty, full deposite back, etc. Even offer to return the aircard.

And finally.. don't forget to get their name (they won't give last name), but if you push a little they'll give you their extention. This way if you do get dinged you can call them back.

Hopefully this helps someone get out of their contract, but it shouldn't be that difficult unless you say something stupid or act like a jerk.

An excellent post.

In the Verizon Settlement, they were even required to refund the cost of hardware.

That's the minimum I'll hold out for if they try this crap on me.

By the way, how much was your usage and are you in Eastern or Western Canada?

I just passed 8GB in my running-30-day count; I'm getting a little nervous because I keep having 1GB days.

[fr05t]

Ah I don't care about the 50 bucks for the aircard. I might end up reactivating it on a lesser plan for emergency use later on.

I'm in Atlantic Canada.. Apparently (can't review the records because mytelus doesn't go back that far) in april or may I hit 18GB. Which is what they had the problem with. The kicker however is when I asked what was "acceptable GB/month" they said it "depended on the tower, time of day, etc, etc.

The point is they will not give you any set limit of whats ok, because as soon as they do they're screwed - because then it's not "unlimited".

I know it's symantics, but as long as you use logic to back them into a corner you might be able to get a refund on the aircard. I'm just happy to keep the card, and cancel with no fees.

[Tony2468]

Why would you want to cancel Telus's Unlimited Data Plan? Seems kind of foolish since there isn't a unlimited data plan for PC use in Canada at the moment.

Advising someone they can cancel there plan is what Telus wants anyways? Id expect that kind of advise from a Telus employee and not a Telus customer.

[w4lker]

I just love how a few people think the word unlimited means they can break the terms of usage.

Dear i.Fido,

TELUS' Terms of Service directly contradict its' marketing of these plans: what TELUS' marketing says you can do is not what the TOS allows you to do. (In fact it's impossible to know what you are allowed to do, since the TOS are so vague.)

Thus TELUS is misleading customers and that means that TELUS is in the wrong. You cannot market a service, ("Unlimited Free Oil Changes on Any Vehicle for a one-time fee of $20",) and then claim that you don't have to deliver it because the contract says so ("Terms: at the time of oil change, vehicle must have Unicorn droppings in the back seat".) That would be misleading customers about what they were going to get, and you can't do that even if your (own) terms of service declare that you can.

Even an ad for a McDonald's promotion has a great big Asterisk beside the price, and the terms and limitations printed directly and clearly on the goddam sign.

To be clear, TELUS certainly does have every right to restrict the way an "Unlimited" plan is used. But they must do this in a clear, conspicuous manner. This promotion had no clear restrictions of any kind -- IN FACT IT STILL DOESN'T. The restriction seems to be "We'll tell you to PFO if and when it suits us."

And no, burying a couple of very ambiguous, wishy-washy, qualitative descriptions of restrictions in the middle of their fine-print legal boilerplate stuff does not constitute clear, conspicuous disclosure.*

This is for the same reason that insurance contracts do not say "if bad stuff happens, we'll give you some money". Not clear enough to have any meaning.

What they need to do, and what they should have done at the beginning, is to implement a quantitative and precise definition of how their "unlimited" plan is restricted. If they continue to fail to do that, they continue to be in the wrong.

W4lker

*If the TELUS TOS do constitute clear and conspicuous disclosure, will you please help this layperson to understand them?

You will use the service for customary voice, messaging and wireless Internet data purposes only. You will not use the service for: multi-media streaming; voice over Internet protocol; or any other application which uses excessive network capacity or may otherwise adversely impact other users, that is not made available to you by TELUS. You will not resell the service to any other person. You will not abuse any flat rate or unlimited use service plan offered by TELUS.*

1) The first sentence directly contradicts the second.

2) What are "customary [...] Internet data purposes"? To whom are they "customary"?

3) Which*applications use "excessive network capacity"? *What is the capacity of TELUS' network, and how can I possibly know whether I am using "excessive" capacity without knowing what the capacity is?

THESE TERMS ARE NOT CLEAR AND ARE THEREFORE NOT VALID