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Thread: Connect 75 Unlimited - Telus trying to force me into $65/1GB

  1. #136
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    Que_Ball,

    East or West, TELUS or others, I think it is just the same. Rogers' limited offer of 6GB per month, people are still whining... well, even I wish to see keyword, "unlimited data" but it is at least a) honest to to term b) I would never go 6GB per month with my mobile usage.

    So call me cynical but I have never trusted the carriers and ISPs in North America are being so generous on offering "unlimited" bandwidth / usage at all. There is always an "*", string attached, fine prints and the wild-card of "we reserve the rights to re-define what unlimited means". BTW, I just wonder how the cross-roaming agreement between Bell and TELUS could hold up - especially in the data roaming terms.

    In my view, speed and bandwidth will become crude oil. Too bad, Enron fell apart too soon. But like the big oil companies, the big carriers / ISPs will be the next cartel in this frontier.
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  2. #137
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    I think the main root of this problem is TELUS and Bell charging each other too much for data roaming, or them focusing in too much on it.

    If both providers offered true unlimited data and both had similar numbers of subscribers it would even out.

    Bell started this crap when they toasted unlimited plan users. Some idiot in upper management who's been hired to trim costs has gone through the books and seen millions of dollars of this data roaming going to their competitor and raised a red flag. They figure they can save their company millions of dollars and be a hero by utilizing the contracts they have with subscribers to kick them off the network. Now that same idiot probably got hired at TELUS after he supposedly saved Bell millions of dollars and he's gonna try to do the same thing at TELUS.

    The other issue I see isn't so much the wireless spectrum being finite, but I think the Optical network they have behind the scenes isn't hefty enough to handle people who download more than 10GB a month. They sure as heck better put some money into that if LTE is going to have data speeds up in the 100 Mbit/s range per subscriber. We need massive upgrades to the Fibre infrastructure. OC3 or higher per tower would be start. I bet many don't even have DS3 to them yet except in metro areas.
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  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfDV
    boy you're helpful eh... and haha?.. really?

    i think most of us know the L&R numbers already, thanks.

    rather than bug retentions, i thought i'd ask the more knowledgable members at hofo first if they know of a corp connect unlimited plan, and if it were excempt
    Yep, can definitely verify Corp can still get Connect 100, sold as unlimited but unconfirmed as of yet. People are looking into it. If it's not, there's gonna be a lot of flack from the corp side of things.

    Was told by Telus that the cancellation program including these as well. Again, corp won't take kindly to being deceived either.

  4. #139
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    Reply from Telus?

    I just found this Globe & Mail blog post:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...tory/WBcyberia

    Take a look at the second comment. It appears to be a response from Jim Johannsson at Telus Media Relations. He is basically saying that Connect 75 data plans are all grandfathered, and they are only going after the worst 0.1% of users.

    We'll see if this is the case.

  5. #140
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  6. #141
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    Jim Johannsson from Edmonton, Canada writes: ...If they choose to cancel their service, they can do so without penalty and return their aircard for a full hardware refund.

    You don't even get that kind of option for your cell phone use. Those 0.1% of people should take the offer and leave Telus.

  7. #142
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    Wirelessly posted (BB Curve 8330: BlackBerry8330/4.3.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/126 UP.Browser/5.0.3.3)

    Quote Originally Posted by fooledme
    Jim Johannsson from Edmonton, Canada writes: ...If they choose to cancel their service, they can do so without penalty and return their aircard for a full hardware refund.

    You don't even get that kind of option for your cell phone use. Those 0.1% of people should take the offer and leave Telus.
    I agree that the offer is good. I thought they would have tried to force people pout of the unlimited plan without trying to compensate them at all. But the fact remains that many people rely on this service and thought they had an unlimited comittment in place for X number of years. This is not right and it should be fought.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by seaners
    I agree that the offer is good. I thought they would have tried to force people pout of the unlimited plan without trying to compensate them at all. But the fact remains that many people rely on this service and thought they had an unlimited comittment in place for X number of years. This is not right and it should be fought.
    The part to pay attention to is *if they choose to cancel*. Basically if you try to argue with them I bet you would not only get nothing, but an ETF too boot.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by crussmann
    I just found this Globe & Mail blog post:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...tory/WBcyberia

    Take a look at the second comment. It appears to be a response from Jim Johannsson at Telus Media Relations.
    That cannot possibly be a professional PR person. Is TELUS' official media response going to take the form of comment trolling?

    A real educated professional would know how quickly such bollocks will be picked up by the internet and "decoded".

    Translation of that bizarre comment:

    "We have determined that a secret number of users have been violating a secret and always-changing definition of abuse for a secret length of time. We have been terminating these customers' accounts without even telling them what the actual secret restriction they have violated is.

    "Generating such secret standards and punishing people for them is of course our right as a service provider, just as a buffet owner can throw people out at will if he determines that they have eaten more potatoes than the secret hourly potato quota he has established in his mind. The buffet owner is under no obligation to tell customers how many potatoes they were allowed to eat either a) when they come into the restaurant, or b) when he is booting them in the behind out the side door.

    "Similarly, TELUS is under no legal or ethical obligation to deliver what it promised in its' marketing: any such suggestion is absurd. Further, TELUS is under no obligation to inform clients of restrictions on the service clearly and conspicuously at the time of purchase.

    "Those who disagree with TELUS' actions should refer to item 76 of our Terms of Service, which specifically prevent any living human or higher primate from disagreeing with TELUS' policies. In fact our Terms of Service are so powerful and far-reaching that we can actually legislate the Weather and the return of Christ with them if we want. We could write Terms of Service that say it's okay to eat babies, and it instantly would be: Our Terms of Service are above scrutiny and above any other legal or ethical standard.

    "Now PFO."



    Jim Johannsson, if you're reading this, why don't you make an account and troll over here at HoFo? You could start by telling us why we cannot know what restrictions we have violated that have caused our service to be terminated, and also why TELUS was under no obligation to inform us clearly of service restrictions at the time we spent all that money in your stores.


    .
    Last edited by w4lker; 08-28-2008 at 09:26 AM.

  10. #145
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  12. #147
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    Here are some talking points I've come up with for anyone who gets the call from TELUS. I don't care that the White Vans can read this: if they had legitimate answers to them I would accept them canceling my service!

    If anyone has any suggestions for amendments, please PM me. I'm no lawyer; I'm just going by how I feel that TELUS is being unfair. I took the main idea from the Verizon settlement, because I think it's just as true up here as it is down there.

    1) if the rep asks you to switch to a 1GB plan:

    -No thank you, my rate plan suits my needs.


    2) if the rep tells you that you are abusing the service:

    -What is the *specific* restriction I was violating that is causing you to cancel my account?
    -Why won't you tell me what the *specific* restriction is that I violated?
    -Where in your marketing of this plan did it state that restriction?


    3) if the rep continues to say that you have just "used too much"

    -How and how much can I use the service without being abusive?
    -Why can't you tell me?


    4) now state how you feel about the situation:

    -I want to be clear that I respect your right to restrict the use of your service to prevent abuse.
    -however, I FEEL that you need to advise the clients of these restrictions. This information would allow me to:
    -a) decide whether the service is right for me at the time of purchase, and
    -b) not abuse the service if I do decide to purchase it
    -YOU DID NOT INFORM ME of any clear restrictions when you sold me the service. As a matter of fact, YOU STILL WON'T!
    -I WOULD NOT HAVE INVESTED in this service if you had informed me that it was restricted in this manner at the time of purchase.

    -I therefore have two concerns about the way you are treating me here today:
    -I feel that your restrictions have been deliberately hidden from me until after I violate them, allowing you to declare any customer an "abuser" arbitrarily. (In fact the only way for a customer to find how his or her account is restricted is by having his account canceled!)
    -I feel that your restrictions on this plan directly contradict your marketing of this plan.


    5) if the rep states that you will be receiving a full refund for your modem, and therefore won't be impacted financially:

    -That doesn't refund my whole investment. I paid for the Unlimited service during months I didn't need it, just to ensure that I would continue have it during future months when I did need it.


    6) if the rep persists, offers you a deal, etc.:

    -Will you please send me all of this in writing? Please let me know the details of what I have done to be considered an abuser, and what I am being offered?
    -How can you state that you have grounds to terminate my account or offer me a deal if you won't put the details of those grounds or that deal in writing?


    7) if the rep tries to get technical and talk bandwidth:

    -Let's look at some numbers: You advertise the average downlink speed as 450-800 kilobits per second. You also advertise the peak downlink speed of your network as 3.1 megabits per second (http://www.telusmobility.com/on/1X/index.shtml)

    -let's choose the most pessimistic estimate of average downlink speed from your website, which is 450 kiloBITS per second.
    -that is 56.25 kiloBYTES per second
    -if I multiply that by the number of seconds in a month, I get 145 800 000 kiloBYTES per month of service
    -which is 145 800 megaBYTES per month
    -which is 145 gigaBYTES downloaded per month based on your lowest estimate of the connection's average speed. That also includes no uploading whatsoever, which is impossible.

    -What this shows is that for every 5GB that I download, I am using only 3.44% of your lowest estimate of my connection's capacity.
    -Is using 3.44% of the connection considered abuse by TELUS? How about 6.88%, if I downloaded 10GB in a month?
    -For every 5GB that I download, I am using only 0.49% of the peak capacity of your my connection (according to your advertising.)

    -Again, I respect your right to define abuse any way you want, but I think that you should also have to inform the customers of your definition so that we can decide whether the service is right for us and, if so, how we will use it.


    8) if the rep says that you're violating Section 5 of the ToS:

    -Let's look at your Terms of Service:

    "You will use the service for customary voice, messaging and wireless Internet data purposes only. You will not use the service for: multi-media streaming; voice over Internet protocol; or any other application which uses excessive network capacity or may otherwise adversely impact other users, that is not made available to you by TELUS. You will not resell the service to any other person. You will not abuse any flat rate or unlimited use service plan offered by TELUS."

    -if you ask any Computer Scientist or any layperson, they will tell you that this definition is so vague that it would be impossible to abide by except by never using the connection.
    -if TELUS has a *specific*, qualitative definition of abuse, why do they refuse to inform the clients of that definition? Why won't you tell me what it is right now?

    9) if the rep says they're invoking Section 18 of the ToS:

    "These service terms (including any rates and charges) may be changed unilaterally by TELUS from time to time on at least thirty (30) days' notice to you, and such changes shall become effective once you use the service after such thirty (30) day period (which use shall be deemed conclusively to indicate acceptance of such changes."

    -If you have no other explanation aside from your self-appointed right to unilaterally change clients' rates, why are you not changing everyone's rates? Why doing it discrimminatorially?
    -On what basis are you discrimminating?
    -If you are discrimminating based on usage, do you consider it to be fair business practices to up the rates for any user who takes full advantage of your service?

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  14. #149
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    D-Link EV-DO Wireless Router

    All you unlimited users should get a wireless 3G mobile router and share the connection with neighbourhood. They have a 3G HSDPA version as well, think I’ll get one for my Fido Unlimited.

    Lets show the Telcos what Unlimited truly means!


    http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=524
    Go here to participate in changing Canada's Digital Future! http://de-en.gc.ca/home/

    Canada's Net Neutrality Petition http://www.saveournet.ca/

    Dissolve the CRTC! http://dissolvethecrtc.ca/

  15. #150
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    Gotcha!

    Allow me to quote from the Telus website (this quotation extracted just minutes ago):

    "The TELUS Wireless High Speed network allows for fast and reliable Internet connections. This opens the door for a variety of services such as streaming video and other multimedia applications. Mobile professionals will be able to get broadband-like connections to corporate Intranets, e-mail servers, the Internet, and other online services."

    (Read the middle sentence out loud a few times. Let it roll around on the tip of your tongue like a fine wine.)


    All the details, a screen capture and the URL reference at my blog:

    http://evdo-novascotia.blogspot.com/...ote-telus.html


    The implications of this advertisement text are a joy to contemplate. This quote is well above and beyond the point of trying to corporate-spin it into shape.

    If I were in their shoes at this point, I know exactly what I would do (psst - my advice is free).

    It'll be interesting to see their reaction.

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