Verizon's open door policy all hype, no change?

[CharlesH]

The issue with VZW, as I recall--correct me if I'm wrong--is that the device *as produced by the manufacturer* had multiple profile support. VZW had it crippled in their version, did not (sufficiently?) publicize the fact that the VZW version of the device was crippled in comparison to other versions.

The argument by the plaintiffs was that given the fact that the V710 had already been publicized by Moto and others as having mult-profile BT support, VZW's failure to make note of the fact that they crippled features present in the V710 as designed was what amounted to deception.

Agreeing: As I understand it, the suit was solely about making the buyer aware that the Bluetooth profiles in the 710s sold by VZW were restricted compared to the original manufacturer's specifications. All VZW had to do to resolve the issue was to have a prominent enough disclosure on the advertising and product packaging (and compensate the earlier buyers who has been "deceived"). They were under no obligation to actually re-enable the functionality.

[samab]

90% of the stuff being certified are machine-to-machine stuff and 10% are low cost handsets and pda's.

http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=163825

[GuyinLACA]

Well I finally spoke with Verizon Wireless executive relations. Their policy is this...if you have a phone that was from a carrier Verizon acquired, they MAY be able to push it into the database through a submission form. However, if the ESN/MEID is from another CDMA carrier, you must send the phone to a Verizon Wireless certification center to have the phone flashed to Verizon firmware, and once certified/approved, they will enter the phone into Verizon's database. The two things I found problematic is the representative told me that 1. There is no guarantee that Verizon will certify the phone, 2. It can take up to a month to have the certification done. What a pain in the neck to get a phone activated!

It would almost be tempting to swap the main board, but who knows how much work would be involved in doing so.

[superds]

...However, if the ESN/MEID is from another CDMA carrier, you must [B]send the phone to a Verizon Wireless certification center to have the phone flashed to Verizon firmware, and once certified/approved, they will enter the phone into Verizon's database...

So VZW is going to develop firmware for a phone they don't carry?

[GuyinLACA]

From the sound of it, the phone must be another carrier's equivalent to the phone Verizon carries, but I'm not sure what their criteria is.

It was refreshing to hear the rep say they understand where I'm coming from on the Verizon UI, and admitted they're received numerous complaints.

[wnrussell]

Question Reference #080920-005699
Subject: How can I activate an Alltel branded V9m onto the Verizon network?...
Product: Cell Phones
Previous Models
V-Series
Service Provider: Verizon
MSN Number:
Submitted: 09/19/2008 06:34 PM
Last Updated: 09/19/2008 06:34 PM
Status: Unresolved

[PabloTX]

BGR says:

Today, VZW has officially announced and confirmed our suspicions — contracts are not necessary for those who want to pay the unsubsidized price for phones or potential subscribers who want to use their existing CDMA devices.

I've been seriously considering porting back to Verizon lately, but the big reason that I left was crippled devices. I'd want to use the Curve (or another Blackberry) on Verizon but am not prepared to give up my GPS. I don't really need a nav program, but want the GPS enabled for apps like Google Maps.

So I read this sentence in the BGR update and am wondering if this means any CDMA phone or just one that Verizon has sold in the past. I know Verizon has their Open Network initiative and will allow non-VZW handsets onto their network as long as they pass muster. How far into this initiative are they and will they now allow a Sprint-branded Curve to be activated?

[C DM]

It's likely that it's all going to be figured out whenever the whole open network initiative is figured out--essentially as being discussed at http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1427213 (among some other, although older, threads).

[Domain]

I thought VZW didn't send the service books for GPS (unless you forked over for VZNav), effectively shutting it down.

Point being, your SPCS Curve would lose it as well. If I'm not mistaken, which I very well may be.

[Buickman]

I thought VZW didn't send the service books for GPS (unless you forked over for VZNav), effectively shutting it down.

I don't think that is the case. When we install VZNav on a BB we don't have to re activate it or reload the host routing table to make it work.

[HBL]

Well I finally spoke with Verizon Wireless executive relations. Their policy is this...if you have a phone that was from a carrier Verizon acquired, they MAY be able to push it into the database through a submission form. However, if the ESN/MEID is from another CDMA carrier, you must send the phone to a Verizon Wireless certification center to have the phone flashed to Verizon firmware, and once certified/approved, they will enter the phone into Verizon's database. The two things I found problematic is the representative told me that 1. There is no guarantee that Verizon will certify the phone, 2. It can take up to a month to have the certification done. What a pain in the neck to get a phone activated!

It would almost be tempting to swap the main board, but who knows how much work would be involved in doing so.

So let me get this straight. If I should, God forbid, lose my VZW Centro and want them to activate my Sprint Centro as a replacement I need to give them the Sprint to flash (reasonable) and it may take up to a month for a simple rom update? (very unreasonable)

..and what do I use in the mean time? Will VZW let me use my old Nokia 6585 which I had been using on VZW network for close to 2 years? or will they want to flash that too?...and what are they planning to charge for all this marvelous flashing?

[huntm856]

So let me get this straight. If I should, God forbid, lose my VZW Centro and want them to activate my Sprint Centro as a replacement I need to give them the Sprint to flash (reasonable) and it may take up to a month for a simple rom update? (very unreasonable)

Agreed. It certainly seems like if you have a phone that is another carrier's version of a phone VZW suppors, it would be easy enough to just take the phone to a service center and have it flashed and activated.

I mean, surely VZW techs can flash their own phones, right? If they can flash a VZW Centro or V9m why couldn't they flash a Sprint or USCC one?

If this is indeed the policy, it seems calculated to make this option available on paper but very difficult to actually avail oneself of.

Which is what I've been saying about this supposed policy all along: all hype and PR, but not really intended to really do anything substantive.

[tsmilanich]

I am glad they don't allow non-VZW equipment and I hope they never do.

Because when the non-VZW equipment doesn't work, the hobbyists will be calling Care and going to the store, and clogging up the system because they don't know the WAP settings or whatever. It's a nice idea, but when it doesn't work, they will come out of the woodwork expecting support

I would like the freedom to use my Sanyo M1. It is better than other verizon phones IMO. I like the duribality.

[GuyinLACA]

The problem has nothing to do with the software that's on the phone. The problem is there are only a select group of technicians with access to Verizon's MEID database to add it to the system for you. Not even Verizon's executive relations had the power to push phones through. All I want is to be able to speak with a technician directly and convince them that an Alltel phone is identical to a Verizon one and there is NO reason it shouldn't work.

[huntm856]

The problem has nothing to do with the software that's on the phone. The problem is there are only a select group of technicians with access to Verizon's MEID database to add it to the system for you.

If the ability to add MEIDs to their database is a problem, it's purely a manufactured one. There is no reason why they have to restrict their network to MEIDs that are in their database, or to make it very difficult for new MEIDs to be added to the their databases.

GSM carriers don't.

The ostensible reason CDMA carriers claim they need to limit access by MEID is to protect their networks from rogue/incompatible devices. This is obviously nonsense, given that they all allow non-subs to roam on their networks, subject only to the PRL system. When my phone makes a roaming connection request on Alltel's network, do you think Alltel communicates with Sprint to get my ESN/MEID before allowing the connection to be completed?

And obviously, if a USCC or Sprint Razr got flashed with VZW firmware, there'd be no question about its being compatible with the network, and hence, the fact that its MEID wasn't in their system wouldn't be a sensible reason for preventing it from being activated.

The entire system is like an intentionally engineered Catch-22. "We KNOW that Sprint MotoQ can operate on our network; in fact, if it were activated on Sprint right now and made a roaming request, we'd be glad to let it use our network.

"But sorry, we can't let you use it on our network as a subscriber; don't have the MEID in our database, you see."

This is all nonsense!

I don't understand why people talk about the system as if it's anything but what it is, a way for the carriers to control their subs, control what they actually do with their handsets, and ultimately, to squeeze more money out of them.

And let me make it clear that this isn't an opinion I hold just of VZW. We're only talking about VZW here because they've been making PR noises about opening up their system, but most of the other CDMA carriers are just as bad.

Because I am a Sprint subscriber, I know that it brings up the possibility of allowing non-Sprint-branded compatible handsets to be activated on its network too from time to time, but its actions in this area have been just as at odds with actually having this happen as VZW's have, if not more so.