I must say, since arriving in Japan I will say it now: nobody I've seen on the trains or in town so far are using iPhones. Nobody whosoever. Everyone's using some form of keitai. Still seeing plenty of SoftBank Sharps for example too.
It's a huge (and bloody welcome) difference from Australia, where every second person I see is using an iPhone.
So despite the sales figures saying iPhone is selling tons, it's still a drop in the ocean it seems (much as I had thought really).
Nexus One, Droid Incredible, HTC Desire, Samsung Galaxy S
iPod Touch 64gb, Droid Eris (reserve)
Blackberry Tour (sold), Nokia N85, Nokia 5530, MyTouch 3G (reserve)
Carriers
DOCOMO Pacific (HSDPA);
Feedback Score
0
Originally Posted by stevetam
I would love drillbit to be here becasue that line between a smartphone and 'dumbphone' is extremely blurred. So what do you call those java based samsung touchscreen phones. They do feature very similar features to their WinMo and Andriod sister phones. But saying that samsung is trying to make an appstore.
My definition of a smartphone is a phone that is capable of completely subsituting a PC if neccesary. Therefore most WinMo phones, symbian and andriod phones fit that sort of description if warranted (iphone included too). well obviously we are not at a stage where the phone outperforms the PC, but it is possible not to have the PC available and still be able to have almost all the funcitonality of a PC.
As for the keitias..I would have to ask a native japanese person. I'm pretty sure they can get apps. I'm not quite sure its java based either. All I know is that most keitais have the POTENTIAL of being smartphones. btu really its just the carriers that hold them back to gain a monopoly on their market share. Just look at verizon. Sure you can still install apps here and there, but most ot their WinMo phones are locked down. In then end its not really the manufacterers to blame. Apple has dones a fantastic job on the iPhone, and I dare you say Sharp hasn't done something good recently on their phones. Its the carriers fault. Ntt Docomo, instates MOAP-S, as a result they stay in symbian, but cannot change their ugly fonts and a slightly confusing OS. All of Sharp's and Fujitsu's improvements have been done within arms reach of Docomo or Softbank (Only for Sharp). The iPhone itself is hampered by its home network... at&t.
Line between smartphone & feature phone is indeed very blurred lately. For example, iPhone has no discernible internal file system compared to other smartphones, while Android runs on Java apps.
Motorola RAZR 2 and ROKR series are all Linux based phones too.
Many Nokia Series 40 "dumbphones" feature stuff like Opera Mini. And yes, there is an SDK for J2ME programming for Series 40.
By industry definition, MOAP-S and MOAP-L keitai are smartphones because they use Symbian and Linux. In industry surveys they are counted as smartphones and their numbers used to compute market share. Hence technically why Symbian leads in "market share" in Japan.
What pushes the line is that Java phones generally have a dozen or more so apps you can install via third party. But these smartphones, Apple App Store has 65K apps---the biggest application base for any platform second to Windows. In just one year. Even app stores for Blackberry and Nokia is rapidly growing, and both have literally doubled the number of apps within their stores to at least over 6000. Even Android Marketplace is boasting over 6000 apps too.
Most blurred phone right now is the Samsung Jet, powered by an 800MHz processor and has a WebKit browser, which can run the next gen HTML standard. The next gen HTML 5 allows for Webapps to happen, such as Google Latitude. "Smart" is less important a definition now, than the ability to run HTML 5 and the next generation of mobile/Cloud enabled web apps like Google Latitude.
Note that iPhone placed its bets on both cases---in their App Store and in Webapps.
Most blurred phone right now is the Samsung Jet, powered by an 800MHz processor and has a WebKit browser, which can run the next gen HTML standard. The next gen HTML 5 allows for Webapps to happen, such as Google Latitude. "Smart" is less important a definition now, than the ability to run HTML 5 and the next generation of mobile/Cloud enabled web apps like Google Latitude.
Probably this is the only one good feature in the S8000's browser, but it still wrong as the DS browser (Opera). However the 800MHz CPU is not enough for less lag in the menu.
Define 'fully-featured' first and I'll get back to you.
I was talking about keitais not the iphone
But for starters, it can be synced with Exchange which is great, but I believe it can be supported locally on ActiveSync too; PKI/Windows Domain support (for biz clients though in this respect does fall somewhat short of RIM services from a security standpoint); rich webkit browser, good BT support (A2DP, OBEX, and Stereo Bluetooth am I right? Don't have one);
No OBEX
playback of virtually any format (I'm guessing since the app store is so raved about) inc. MP3 (the lack of which in a keitai blows my mind, trademark be d--mned);
Not virtually any format... many formats aren't supported by itunes
50 THOUSAND apps (a plethora of excellent choices such as Pandora, Nike+, Facebook, etc.
I wouldn't care about care about nike and FB and fart apps in the business I work for.... I wouldn't use a credit card charging app either.
; cut n paste; threaded conversations;
Keitais have that... but these aren't particularly important. C&P, maybe, but it was added 3 releases after the initial release :O
strong multi client IM managers; decent 3.2MP AF camera, for a phone; good mobile games; excellent API, which makes all the brilliance that is the app store shine, etc.
Smartphones do not need apps and games and cameras. That's why the business I work for relies on Blackberries. I personally own a Storm- but do I use it for pictures and gaming? No.
If the sum total of these things does not constitute a smartphone, then I don't believe there is one. And I don't even own an iPhone. If I did, I could probably enumerate two dozen more things that I think would corroborate...
Hmmm... perhaps you'd be better off explaining why you think iphone isn't, because you're obviously going against the grain/consensus of what is a smartphone with that comment.
But dumb-smartphone Sounds like an oxymoron
Yeah okay it's an oxymoron but I think I got the point across... it's a not-very-smart-smartphone.
Can you install any symbian mobile apps on it? Standardized interface platform for app devs? PC-mobile handset convergence? Educate me.
[let's say I was in Japan where these phones are meant to be used]
On my Smartphone:
1. Activesync (sync my calendar, tasks, very exc. contact manager, PIE favs etc.) with PC/IE, wirelessly over BT.
Docomo has a service for you to do that.
2. Speaking of BT, I can also playback music on my phone and transmit via wireless stream (i.e. output) to BT automobile, windows media player, or any BT stereo device which supports 'Stereo Bluetooth'. Or listen to music on A2DP headset. OR very seamlessly send picture, file (pdf, .doc.,.jpg, mp3, whatever) to my PC via OBEX. Speaking of OBEX, I have a hack which allows me to stream audio to plain old (non A2DP) bluetooth headset (useful for listening to podcasts on the go).
Keitais can do that. My old Walkman phone w/ BT can do that. That's not a feature limited to smartphones.
3. Speaking of media players, I can enjoy a variety of formats on my phone inc. mp4/wma/mp3/avi/ogg/mkv/jpg/png/gif/etc.; stream podcasts and radio via WiFi from internet to phone directly from RSS feeds
Variety of formats = JPG/PNG? LOL... I think my crappy Moto L6 supports that. Streaming- fair enough. Some dumbphones can install a JAR app which does that and I'm pretty sure someone has released an app for streaming TV/Radio in Japan for keitais.
4. SIP client i.e. WiFi phone; using Skype Client, Gizmo, or Goog Voice (latter serves as an excellent gateway between my personal number and the world to, with plentiful features (e.g. online voicemail can be transcribed and SMSed too, filters, transparency between handsets, call recording, etc.)
I don't know of any business which uses Google Voice. and mine doesn't that's for sure...
5. Speaking of call recording, perhaps my favorite and most often used app is Vito Audio Notes which allows me to record very good quality 128kbps audio notes, or record phone calls. I can't express enough how useful this one apps is to me. Windows built-in sound recorder sucks! And I like holding people/businesses to their word
Alright fair enough.
6. *Native* WinMo Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Adobe PDF. NOT JUST VIEWER. Comes in handy for quick edits, resume sharing, or PDF bus map, to name but a few examples.
There's probably an app for Word/Excel in the app market for keitais. AFAIK you cannot edit PPTs on a smartphone. At least I couldn't on my HP iPaq nor my Xperia X1.
7. Speaking of Office Apps, OneNote Mobile, arguably the best note taking app on the market (and that contention is with Evernote) which allows me to seamlessly sync 'to-do' and 'grocery lists' between pc and phone; editing either or, and changes reflecting on both sides. I just recently started this and it's a great and intuitive way for me to leave [often misplaced] stick-its all together! I won't bother enumerating all the other uses of OneNote but they are out there
I think Docomo has a service to sync contacts and stuff OTA.
8. W5Storage: plug in my phone to USB and instantly becomes removable storage with native accessibility from any computer/OS; with fat file support; extremely useful when coupled with portable apps such as firefox when traveling or simply for sharing files
You mean microSD mode doesn't do that on keitais? Huh. Far from a 'feature' on a smartphone... I can't do that without an app on the iphone either but that's a different story.
9. GPS, Turn-by Turn directions over BT (i.e. display) or in and of itself
Most keitais have built-in GPS with maps of Japan. Most people don't use it though since their car already has GPS standard. It's just the lamea$$ Fords and Chevys with 'Microsoft Sync' as a $10000 option....
10. Resco Photo Viewer (exc. mobile photo management app which allows handy editing tools to boot and ability to send over BT within app)
I don't need to edit photos on a phone, thanks.
11. Google Mobile App (gmail bliss), Windows Live and Bing for mobile; speaking of which... can you install jars on keitai either inside or outside of Japan, freely? I have no idea just curious...
Nope, only downloads from the internet browser.
12.WebCamera Plus (use my phone as webcam over WiFi)
Why would I need that? All my laptops and desktops have built-in webcams already. Even my tiny HP mini 110.
13. BT remote; use my phone as remote control for Media Center PC
I don't use Windows Media Center on my Vista Ultimate PC but I guess if you need it... fair enough.
14. Skyfire; exc. rich mobile browser, one cut below Safari and definitely better than PIE or Opera Mobile.
Try the i-mode browser (designed for phones) and the Full Browser by netfront and reconsider. It's pretty smooth with the Touch Cruiser.
15. Remote Desktop client (WM6) - self explanatory
Okay, but like I said I bring my laptop with me so I don't need that.
16. I suppose things I take for granted in most phones that may not be possible on a (outside japan) keatai, such as sms/mms, actually having a fully functional phone camera and which utilizes external storage; making phone calls w/o need for CPR. Please clarify if I'm mistaken (going off your own guide to keitais in some respects.
CPR is typically needed every month or so with a good hypersim and never with 920sh and below phones. Not every phone call- please read around.
17. Last, but certainly not least: Soti Pocket Controller which is like a remote control for the phone. Plug in phone to USB to charge (also a feature btw, not proprietary connection bs) --> phone display output to computer LCD-TV; then I can use full size keyboard to write text, tasks; I suppose even write that 'essay' But no need really since I can just do it on PC with a plethora of options (thanks to aforementioned apps) and view/share on phone later.
Yeah, let me bring my bluetooth keyboard around with me to type! If you must argue docomos support HID so you can use your 'full size' BT keyboard to type.
Understood, but that doesn't negate the usefulness of it all. I have a Macbook, Netbook, and regular Notebook. But I'm not going to carry it with me everywhere I take my phone to do all the things I mentioned, and most certainly not in Japan where public trans is so vital.
Carry it in a briefcase? I put a sleeve over the laptop and shove it into my briefcase and go. Oh, and a macbook is a regular notebook
Define 'fully-featured' first and I'll get back to you.
I was talking about keitais not the iphone
No, you better define it now before you get in trouble later. What is a smartphone?
But for starters, it can be synced with Exchange which is great, but I believe it can be supported locally on ActiveSync too; PKI/Windows Domain support (for biz clients though in this respect does fall somewhat short of RIM services from a security standpoint); rich webkit browser, good BT support (A2DP, OBEX, and Stereo Bluetooth am I right? Don't have one);
No OBEX
playback of virtually any format (I'm guessing since the app store is so raved about) inc. MP3 (the lack of which in a keitai blows my mind, trademark be d--mned);
Not virtually any format... many formats aren't supported by itunes
I think yamanote is being picky here since i doubt most players of any sort are going to support things like WavPack Lossless, GSM 6.10, DTS, whatever.
in any case, explain to me why I can't download a mp3 by safari right then and there and play it
50 THOUSAND apps (a plethora of excellent choices such as Pandora, Nike+, Facebook, etc.
I wouldn't care about care about nike and FB and fart apps in the business I work for.... I wouldn't use a credit card charging app either.
Well, you don't care; that is a problem, we're not here to cater to your personal convention. this is why we need you to define what you think a smartphone is and what it needs to provide.
edit, if you were talking about WM, the windows mobile app ecosystem sucks
; cut n paste; threaded conversations;
Keitais have that... but these aren't particularly important. C&P, maybe, but it was added 3 releases after the initial release :O
agreed, who cares
strong multi client IM managers; decent 3.2MP AF camera, for a phone; good mobile games; excellent API, which makes all the brilliance that is the app store shine, etc.
Smartphones do not need apps and games and cameras. That's why the business I work for relies on Blackberries. I personally own a Storm- but do I use it for pictures and gaming? No.
once again, you say it doesn't need x, y, z, maybe you don't need it in a smartphone... doesn't mean it can't be in there. just because it doesn't meet your "smartphone" needs doesnt mean it doesnt meet everyone else's. we don't even really know what you mean by smartphone, which is why you need to tell us what you think it means.
If the sum total of these things does not constitute a smartphone, then I don't believe there is one. And I don't even own an iPhone. If I did, I could probably enumerate two dozen more things that I think would corroborate...
Hmmm... perhaps you'd be better off explaining why you think iphone isn't, because you're obviously going against the grain/consensus of what is a smartphone with that comment.
I agree that that doesn't quite make up a smartphone either, but yamanote is being just as limited in his view about what a smartphone is and isn't.
But dumb-smartphone Sounds like an oxymoron
Yeah okay it's an oxymoron but I think I got the point across... it's a not-very-smart-smartphone.
Can you install any symbian mobile apps on it? Standardized interface platform for app devs? PC-mobile handset convergence? Educate me.
[let's say I was in Japan where these phones are meant to be used]
who the hell cares about symbian? why does it have to be symbian? a few things:
i-appli is subset of J2ME, enforces J2ME UI conventions (as implemented) which is going to be the same anyway, because docomo is looking over their shoulders.
otherwise, web apps all implement that s***ty japanese web text interface we've all learned to hate (blue hyper links and black text, half width katakana! on white) de facto, anything else is a waste of bandwidth.
there is no PC-handset convergence because the handset ecosystem exists outside of and separate to the PC one (unlike iphone, where many services are ports of those offered on windows - facebook... etc) many sites are mobile-only, cater to mobile users, were designed ground up to be used by mobile users and mobile users only. part of this due to the fact that there are many more handsets than PCs in japan, and many people use their cell phone as their main data terminal
On my Smartphone:
1. Activesync (sync my calendar, tasks, very exc. contact manager, PIE favs etc.) with PC/IE, wirelessly over BT.
Docomo has a service for you to do that.
Any PIM worth its beans can do that. Palm had that in 1996.
2. Speaking of BT, I can also playback music on my phone and transmit via wireless stream (i.e. output) to BT automobile, windows media player, or any BT stereo device which supports 'Stereo Bluetooth'. Or listen to music on A2DP headset. OR very seamlessly send picture, file (pdf, .doc.,.jpg, mp3, whatever) to my PC via OBEX. Speaking of OBEX, I have a hack which allows me to stream audio to plain old (non A2DP) bluetooth headset (useful for listening to podcasts on the go).
Keitais can do that. My old Walkman phone w/ BT can do that. That's not a feature limited to smartphones.
3. Speaking of media players, I can enjoy a variety of formats on my phone inc. mp4/wma/mp3/avi/ogg/mkv/jpg/png/gif/etc.; stream podcasts and radio via WiFi from internet to phone directly from RSS feeds
Variety of formats = JPG/PNG? LOL... I think my crappy Moto L6 supports that. Streaming- fair enough. Some dumbphones can install a JAR app which does that and I'm pretty sure someone has released an app for streaming TV/Radio in Japan for keitais.
Your iPhone can play ogg and mkv? iPhone, like iPod, is limited to MPEG-4 Part 10 (h.264) Main 3.0 in mp4, at least through the OS. Newest keitais also support h.264 Main 3.1 in mp4.
4. SIP client i.e. WiFi phone; using Skype Client, Gizmo, or Goog Voice (latter serves as an excellent gateway between my personal number and the world to, with plentiful features (e.g. online voicemail can be transcribed and SMSed too, filters, transparency between handsets, call recording, etc.)
I don't know of any business which uses Google Voice. and mine doesn't that's for sure...
Skype cannot use 3G (without editing), GV is rejected from app store. Where's your daddy now?
5. Speaking of call recording, perhaps my favorite and most often used app is Vito Audio Notes which allows me to record very good quality 128kbps audio notes, or record phone calls. I can't express enough how useful this one apps is to me. Windows built-in sound recorder sucks! And I like holding people/businesses to their word
Alright fair enough.
My 2004 SE dumphone can do that. Doesn't matter what format, because you're still receiving GSM AMR audio over the air anyway.
6. *Native* WinMo Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Adobe PDF. NOT JUST VIEWER. Comes in handy for quick edits, resume sharing, or PDF bus map, to name but a few examples.
There's probably an app for Word/Excel in the app market for keitais. AFAIK you cannot edit PPTs on a smartphone. At least I couldn't on my HP iPaq nor my Xperia X1.
dunno, I can't edit PDF's even IN my computer.
7. Speaking of Office Apps, OneNote Mobile, arguably the best note taking app on the market (and that contention is with Evernote) which allows me to seamlessly sync 'to-do' and 'grocery lists' between pc and phone; editing either or, and changes reflecting on both sides. I just recently started this and it's a great and intuitive way for me to leave [often misplaced] stick-its all together! I won't bother enumerating all the other uses of OneNote but they are out there
I think Docomo has a service to sync contacts and stuff OTA.
8. W5Storage: plug in my phone to USB and instantly becomes removable storage with native accessibility from any computer/OS; with fat file support; extremely useful when coupled with portable apps such as firefox when traveling or simply for sharing files
You mean microSD mode doesn't do that on keitais? Huh. Far from a 'feature' on a smartphone... I can't do that without an app on the iphone either but that's a different story.
do you really think that's a feature? mass storage availability is there in every device out there.
9. GPS, Turn-by Turn directions over BT (i.e. display) or in and of itself
Most keitais have built-in GPS with maps of Japan. Most people don't use it though since their car already has GPS standard. It's just the lamea$$ Fords and Chevys with 'Microsoft Sync' as a $10000 option....
Garmin Mobile XT is slow as ****. also, A-GPS is not helping. (doesn't help the keitais either). Standalone GPS works much better and no one cares about BT. Your car would need to support BT too, and by that point you ought to have the GPS feature installed if you need GPS that much.
10. Resco Photo Viewer (exc. mobile photo management app which allows handy editing tools to boot and ability to send over BT within app)
I don't need to edit photos on a phone, thanks.
agreed, all my photo editing is done in photoshop.
11. Google Mobile App (gmail bliss), Windows Live and Bing for mobile; speaking of which... can you install jars on keitai either inside or outside of Japan, freely? I have no idea just curious...
Nope, only downloads from the internet browser.
12.WebCamera Plus (use my phone as webcam over WiFi)
Why would I need that? All my laptops and desktops have built-in webcams already. Even my tiny HP mini 110.
13. BT remote; use my phone as remote control for Media Center PC
I don't use Windows Media Center on my Vista Ultimate PC but I guess if you need it... fair enough.
Again, my old SE from 2004 can do that. HID over BT. so?
14. Skyfire; exc. rich mobile browser, one cut below Safari and definitely better than PIE or Opera Mobile.
Try the i-mode browser (designed for phones) and the Full Browser by netfront and reconsider. It's pretty smooth with the Touch Cruiser.
PIE doesn't even exist. Just remember that.
15. Remote Desktop client (WM6) - self explanatory
Okay, but like I said I bring my laptop with me so I don't need that.
Right, cause I enjoy scrolling my a** over the whole screen just to click the OK button on a latency ridden 3G connection.
16. I suppose things I take for granted in most phones that may not be possible on a (outside japan) keatai, such as sms/mms, actually having a fully functional phone camera and which utilizes external storage; making phone calls w/o need for CPR. Please clarify if I'm mistaken (going off your own guide to keitais in some respects.
CPR is typically needed every month or so with a good hypersim and never with 920sh and below phones. Not every phone call- please read around.
17. Last, but certainly not least: Soti Pocket Controller which is like a remote control for the phone. Plug in phone to USB to charge (also a feature btw, not proprietary connection bs) --> phone display output to computer LCD-TV; then I can use full size keyboard to write text, tasks; I suppose even write that 'essay' But no need really since I can just do it on PC with a plethora of options (thanks to aforementioned apps) and view/share on phone later.
Yeah, let me bring my bluetooth keyboard around with me to type! If you must argue docomos support HID so you can use your 'full size' BT keyboard to type.
Charging is a feature?
Understood, but that doesn't negate the usefulness of it all. I have a Macbook, Netbook, and regular Notebook. But I'm not going to carry it with me everywhere I take my phone to do all the things I mentioned, and most certainly not in Japan where public trans is so vital.
Carry it in a briefcase? I put a sleeve over the laptop and shove it into my briefcase and go. Oh, and a macbook is a regular notebook
agreed, try taking just the netbook... you have one after all
C'monnn, even most here agree The iPhone is a smart-phone by all measurements, and you are not very convincing at all otherwise and you haven't substantiated your lowly characterization of it in he least. By any definition I can find, the iPhone is a smartphone and it is more useful and well rounded than a keitai, IMO (since when were keitais purchased by gaijin for their functionality anyway? they barely have any), not because of a keitais hw, but sw. My original point was merely that even my archaic smartphone excels in terms of the totality of sw features, so certainly the iPhone constitutes smartphone...
Since you chose the ham-handed reply route, I'll try my best to reply accordingly...
1. PIM managers are a joke by comparison and only introduce an additional layer of sw obfuscation. You're a reasonable dude so I don't see why you'd portend otherwise. Doing so implies not having slightest familiarity of office/mobile convergence and doesn't speak accurately for the mainstream ubiquity that is ms office.
2. Somehow I doubt it.Pls. elaborate on your 2004 dumb phone. keitais can't even play mp3...why bother w/ A2DP or Stereo BT profiels then? WMA is totally obscure by comparison.
What about forcing media player audio over BT headset (a hack of the profile so I doubt you can); what about syncing contacts, calendar, and tasks over BT? What about a desktop calendar that brings these calendar events in with Google Calendar (and other ICS) seamlessly, all editable from the desktop so total transparency?
3. Not talking about iPhone. Nowhere did I say I have an iPhone; stated the opposite in fact. Jar apps are for the most part: slow, cumbersome, limited by sandbox design, and crappy. I avoid them. like the plague... as do many.
But I"m glad your old phone can support a mere 22% of the formats I listed (which by the way isn't an all inclusive list).
4.Moot, moot. Never said I was using 3G; never said I was using an iPhone; GV can be utilized (to an extent) within skype, gizmo, browser, etc. all within most smartphones, regardless of whether there's a native iPhone app per se. Does keitai has a Skype and/or gizmo client, or other VoIP native client (preferably with free sip incoming number to compare apples to apples i.e. gizmo). Though that app would really kick butt. Makes me wanna get an Android phone.
I doubt it. Notwithstanding, not just talking about recording phone calls, but personal notes/meetings/conversations/etc via speaker/mic so yes format does indeed matter (either way personally as mp3 is much better sq than the crappy low bitrate built-in winmo wav audio notes which can't even record mobile conversations).
6. Viewer at best; Mobile Office and Adobe Mobile > 3rd party no matter how you cut the cake... everybody knows this so nonsensical to address your nuances...
For the record, I both create and edit pdfs on desktop
7.What that has to do with OneNote syncing is beyond me.
8.Dunno about keitais but they're so locked down so I'm guessing not (via native os file system at least)... sure some (not all) phones will; others will not allow you to access a sd card unless via some crappy 3rd party file explorer, W5Storage does a lot, particularly the latest which will allow the phone to simultaneously access the SD for the OS while using it (read status) for removable storage uses... blink lights on storage read/write, etc. You should check out the feature list if you're interested...
9.There are good apps; tom-tom for intance. speaking of which, just saw an awesome gps style of app today for iPhone called Where. Sort of a mashup... cant' wait to check it out when I upgrade to new WinMo or Pre http://www.where.com/
Also plenty of utility of GPS/mapping sw outside of a car and not everyone everyone wants to care a 2nd doo-hickey (in fact, most probably do not).
10.Doesn't matter if you don't like to edit, or you ignore fast feature rich viewer. I use PS too Overkill and useless for the desired application. Apples to oranges...
11. Sucks; love both apps and control and more granular control of installation of apps (read: free & archive)... and .jar... well
12.That's supposed to negate my feature (that you solicited)? mmkkay...
13. But can you on keitai? I don't know what 'SE' is...
14. Tried i-mode *full* browser (anything less is akin to PIE I would think (i-mode site=wap site?) and I guess I'm not seeing it. Can you tell me how i-mode full is more notable than http://www.skyfire.com/??
15. It's called 'scaling' and I never suggested using it over 3G, lol. I'm glad you like using your laptop though. Fortunately for me, my argument isn't 'my archaic phone can do more than your fancy notebook'.
16. Not sure a response is necessary on this...
17.I wasn't talking about carrying anything anywhere. I'm talking about at home. I have the luxury of working at home, so I love this little remote app for my candy bar, esp. when it's plugged in charging/syncing anyway.
Although I do find it slightly ironic that you would argue your notebook over mobile in many respects but take qualm with a ultra portable (foldable) BT keyboard.
In any case, asus netbook doesn't fit in pocket, and I'm about to sell it until HDMI/Ion/Win7 Netbooks come onto market at the end of this year... too limited for what I would like out of it now.
But it goes w/o saying one isn't all there if they use a notebook for some things mentioned while mobile. But I'm sure that's not what you meant.
Anyway, my intention was only to address a rather dumb comment earlier... so no hard feelings. Obviously, I like keitais or I wouldn't be here... as I said would love to see that tech with U.S. software ingenuity (a dept I feel the Japanese devs lack in) which would make an awesome device but with an accessible (and popular) OS, so that devs can get behind it and tweak it. Because whether it's DoCoMo, Softbank or Verizon, they'll always try and cripple device features that interfere with the capitalizaiton of the said device in any way, which is why I like WinMo (they don't even bother to cripple in many respects, just add bloat), Android (open source), and iPhone (good API; jailbreaked of course & w/o ATT) because the unified effort of crackers/tweakers/developers will always yield great things for the consumer.
For now, I'll stick to my beloved HTC (and maybe a Palm's Pre if their app store gets shakin' and if they change a few things in the revision). F--k iPhone as long as they stay with ATT... but it doesn't mean I don't respect the device/negate it's smartness, even if I don't find it's attention a bit over the top and it's service price points a bit unattractive
No hard feelings I hope and I do appreciate all the help that you've given me in the past.
Nexus One, Droid Incredible, HTC Desire, Samsung Galaxy S
iPod Touch 64gb, Droid Eris (reserve)
Blackberry Tour (sold), Nokia N85, Nokia 5530, MyTouch 3G (reserve)
Carriers
DOCOMO Pacific (HSDPA);
Feedback Score
0
Try the i-mode browser (designed for phones) and the Full Browser by netfront and reconsider. It's pretty smooth with the Touch Cruiser.
Are they HTML 5 capable? Web 2.0 capable? Capable of being browserless and use its process to run Webapps and WRT Widgets? I doubt it. Webkit browsers have semi-OS functionality. When they put Office 2010 and Google Docs in the Web, these browsers will (supposedly) be ready for all Cloud developments.
This is the direction where mobile browsers are heading. Leaving the classic PDA definition of smartphones into true Webphones.
but what has to be said about Japanese hardware standards. Sure they may harvest a unique form but a lack in fluid software hampers the image of its hardware.
What upsets me is the glorification of the iPhone's hardware. No offense to anyone, but there is nothign revolutionary or evolutionary about the iPhone hardware. HVGA, capacitive touchscreen, 3.2MP autofocus is hardly a large achivement in this day and age. Its the hardware that makes the experience enjoyable...
does anyone crave a 931SH with iPhone fluidity
ANA The Launch Customer for the Boeing 787 Dreamliner
Today's a real trollan day, so I really wanna yell at you again --
1. - I meant PIM as part of the software (Palm). This is equivalent to ActiveSync, Microsoft PPC/ActiveSync had to play catch up to Palm as they actually this syncing idea right (for the 90's).
2. Unfortunately, they can do A2DP (which is stereo BT), WMA is supported (manual says so, I know, I know) and the mere fact that you need a "hack" to get MP functionality over a headset should be a clue that it's not something that it was designed to do, and wouldn't find on a keitai customarily (it's not on your platform customarily either -- someone had to write a hack)
3. this is a not a format war, but most of those are containers, and I doubt they see much use anyway. weren't you complaining that mp3 isnt supported? All image formats should be supported (1990's technology) except for png, maybe. others are just containers...
4. This is true.
5. I don't know about you, but that must be some low quality wav there. The sound OTA is not going to get any better unless you do some postprocessing. Maybe that's the case. By the way, this old phone, can record in call and out of call.
8. I really don't know what you're raising about removable storage; status lights hardly count as a feature and I want to see you use your phone and computer simultaneously so non blocking access is useful. Granted, background IO needs to go thorugh, but that's hardly a feature either.
13. sony ericsson (tw), i don't have a keitai, just here to troll
14. yamanote seems to think otherwise but please see my rant about the keitai web ecosystem...
admit it WMA sucks balls.... AAC is not bad. (AAC is even popular fro itunes in Japan)
3. Speaking of media players, I can enjoy a variety of formats on my phone inc. mp4/wma/mp3/avi/ogg/mkv/jpg/png/gif/etc.; stream podcasts and radio via WiFi from internet to phone directly from RSS feeds
mm.... mp4 yep, WMA yep, avi (Depends on what encoding such as Xvid), ogg (ogg playing phone.... that is news, MKV (I have a little bit of MKV, its only becoming native to Windows in September) I don't think its fair to put that up yet. pictures are all standard file formats......
Nexus One, Droid Incredible, HTC Desire, Samsung Galaxy S
iPod Touch 64gb, Droid Eris (reserve)
Blackberry Tour (sold), Nokia N85, Nokia 5530, MyTouch 3G (reserve)
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There is nothing revolutionary about Keitai hardware either. Screens are cheap. In China, they build Netbooks with 10" to 11" screens for the price of phones. Honestly I don't consider screens special. Touchscreen phones are also dime a dozen nowadays. If people in the West thinks that 4" screen phones are sellable, they would have made them already. But no...carriers and makers have specific size limitations because that is what they believe customers will stand for. They have already tried various 4" to 7" mobile devices, but Internet tablets, MIDs and so on, and they have not proven to sell. Maybe Apple will change the game when its own rumored tablet appears.
Hardware isn't what's important. Its the software. And not, its not the hardware that makes the experience enjoyable, but the software that makes the hardware meaningful. And its not just adding fluidity to the OS, but creating a meaningful API framework for developers to make all sorts of meaningful and capable applications for them. Creating an API is nothing to scoff about, its actually the hardest part in designing an OS. The fact that the iPhone has 65K apps in one year is proof that it is an extremely powerful programming environment. This is what all other smartphone OS is trying to match.
But most importantly you also need customer focus. What kind of customer do you plan to sell these devices for? What's the rationale for having them? What's the killer application that will make them sell? What is the application focus that will enable users to be willing to carry them around?
The key about phones nowadays is that their computing power is evolving ever strongly, and when they become more like generative (multi-modal) computing devices this is playing more and more into the strengths of Silicon Valley (both Apple, Palm, and Google are Valley innovators). Which is software innovation. And with that, they're moving away from the traditional appliance creation and marketing model, like the way every phone has been made, whether its Nokia, Motorola, SE, LG, Samsung, to all Keitai, and even with Shanzhai in China. Instead, a new model is appearing similar to what happened in PCs.
Remember microcomputers in the 80s? There are something there for both Japanese and European makers.
During that time, there were all sorts of computers from MSX in Japan to Sinclairs & Acorns in the UK. You got Commodore, Atari, TRS-80, Apple , and so on. In Japan and in Europe there were many innovative computers that today were all but forgotten now.
That time, the out of box features were important. Your CPU, your RAM, the software packaged with it, everyone jumps into programming BASIC into those computers.
So what changed everything. The IBM PC. It changed the game from the importance of out of box features---like what you have with phones now---to the importance of having a big application base. And all these other species of computers with their niches from NEC PC98 to Commodore Amiga died out after lingering for a while.
This technological cycle is starting to happen with mobile phones. Years from now, there will be casualties, then standardization and consolidation. Then the phone industry will be akin to the netbook and laptop industry you got now. (Heaven help you since it sounds most potentially boring.)
so back in the 80's that was the hardware revolution.... in the same way phones are seing that incremental power increase in a matter of a few years.
Now the sofware is fully available now. For keitais themselves I would see a shift to standard symbian and open apps as a preference for them while still keeping the keitai locked down for JAPAN only. Rest assured there will only be one true winner in this revolution... I'll tell you something of my opinion. Apple will survive, but barely. Historically MS-DOS survived because it was a one platform, the reason why the superior Apple desktops were ignored. In the same way Apple has locked themselves into a tight corner: Sell their own hardware or die. In retrospect, history plays games again....
Ok, this is a mess! I just realized that I mixed you two up a bit in my last reply and I'm too lazy to see who/what/where (with one exception: see end)... not sure how much longer I can go with this as it's very difficult to efficiently reply to both of you, as convoluted as this has become.
1. I think I was replying to Yamanote, not you. But IMHO, Palm sync sucks by comparison and is irreleavant to (non-palm) keitais. I shouldn't say that... I mean 'Old Palm Sync'. I haven't tried some of the things now like Synergy, but I have certain concerns.
2. in other words, still worthless; A2DP w/ only WMA support is junk and the fact that's it's a 'mainstream' OS hack still accentuates my argument toward typical customer doing more things with winMo over keitai
3.of course they are containers. containers are formats. I'm just merely enumerating features that yamanote asked for me to do. And thus listed some of the best and most ubiquitous 'formats'. I assure you they see plenty of use (not necessarily by me on my candybar) but that's besides the point
5. Yes, WinMo (at least 5.1) does come with low quality, very low bitrate record feature. Dunno, I just prefer a bitrate of my choosing with the GUI, viewer -- the whole nine that I mentioned; it's a great value to me (doubt kaitai is the same). And the sound quality is stellar for the hw being used when recording regular meetings/conversations too.
8. Status lights are still a value to me and using a phone in such a fashion qualifies as a smart feature in my book i.e. to have a device that both natively syncs with activesync, and also works as a removable (or hard drive class, you decide!). To answer your confusion, the simultaneous aspect comes in to play because the OS must have card mounted (due to the nature of the core file system) at all times. When it's not, it causes problems (e.g. lose mappings to apps; creation of storage card 2 etc.)
13. So than what's the point, unless you know keitai can do the same? I bet your old tw can play mp3 too, but keitai can't...
BTW, this was a custom app that allows you to map Media Center Keys, rather than simply move a mouse arrow around.
14.i mode is just obscure horse poop in the western world. I"m gonna leave it at that, and say skyfire, webkit, etc. is superior as has been explained ad nauseam by somebody else.
15. In the U.S. Free WiFi is ubiquitous; I work mostly from home or office rendering the redundant mobile data connection mediocre at best and also have a 3 year old 2.5G candy bar... why on earth would I have 3G would be a better question. ONly reason I may take it on handset upgrade is because of discount on pkg (2 phones 1500k min, free m2m & weekends, unlimited text, picture (mms) and 3G data - $97USD/mo)
Also, I def. don't think it's worth $30 for a paltry 5GB of redundant data but that's just me.
"Oh, and a macbook is a regular notebook "
To address this one thing I missed because it bugs me in its condescending tone: Obviously I meant to differentiate 'pc notebook' and 'macbook'.
Please read my 1st post and that will eliminate alot of the tit-for-tat mess that this topic has become:
Originally Posted by stevetam
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