iPhone 3GS #1 in Japan

[hakujin]

Hardware isn't what's important. Its the software. And not, its not the hardware that makes the experience enjoyable, but the software that makes the hardware meaningful. And its not just adding fluidity to the OS, but creating a meaningful API framework for developers to make all sorts of meaningful and capable applications for them. Creating an API is nothing to scoff about, its actually the hardest part in designing an OS. The fact that the iPhone has 65K apps in one year is proof that it is an extremely powerful programming environment. This is what all other smartphone OS is trying to match.

I could not agree more, yet it doesn't make me necessarily like it. I wish hw and sw were equally as important. Seems to be a lot of hw focus in japan and a lot of sw focus in u.s.; I want both.

. For keitais themselves I would see a shift to standard symbian and open apps as a preference for them while still keeping the keitai locked down for JAPAN only...

Not a fan of symbian over the last few years and I don't have high expectations in the rat race of it over iPhone, WebOS, WinMo, and Android. It's really tight, but Dell Small business is able to squeeze out some pretty good unlocked Symbian smartphones; just not my bag. Giving up too much... Japanese dont' want to pay licensing costs so opt for in house and open source framework (then LOCKED up real tight), but maybe the relative popularity of the iPhone will change that in years to come.

...my opinion. Apple will survive, but barely. Historically MS-DOS survived because it was a one platform, the reason why the superior Apple desktops were ignored. In the same way Apple has locked themselves into a tight corner: Sell their own hardware or die. In retrospect, history plays games again....

I wish I could agree with you, but I don't. This one-integrator strategy has come back in to vogue and Apple has shown their vertical market strategy to be highly profitable (and marketable); now everyone/everything else is attempting to copy cat it.

[stevetam]

history speaks otherwise. Commodore, IBM and the all legendary BASIC were giants and huge money making corporation in the 80's.

In a revolutionary market, one wrong step and you are out of it.

This technological cycle is starting to happen with mobile phones. Years from now, there will be casualties, then standardization and consolidation. Then the phone industry will be akin to the netbook and laptop industry you got now. (Heaven help you since it sounds most potentially boring.)

Whether or not Apple falls for this or not, I will leave history to tell. But certainly the market is delicate and growing .eventually the consumer will want the smaller more powerful system. This also involves the highly flexible nature of mobile communications. The loser will ultimately fail to see that curve in the road and become a casualty. I speak for fact about this: Proprietary is rarely a winner.

I leave history to tel us the future, and history to later repeat our past.

[hakujin]

Apple is omniscient. Steve Jobs has been to the future and has a time machine in his basement.




I actually hope apple crashes and burns. I feel I was ripped off on my macbook, but that's a whole other story.

Also, I detest the iPod and much of what the iPhone has come to symbolize now, but I do admire the app store's breadth!

Just wish they made some universal media players for Pre and iPhone. I hate transcoding stuff; just want it to work.

[hakujin]

admit it WMA sucks balls.... AAC is not bad. (AAC is even popular fro itunes in Japan)

Totally. I don't care much about any audio scheme but VBR V0 Lame mp3s. My entire library is mp3 and I'll be darned if I'm going to convert anything to wma.

MKV (I have a little bit of MKV, its only becoming native to Windows in September) I don't think its fair to put that up yet. pictures are all standard file formats......

It's fair. I don't want to deviate too much, but let me just tell you (and I would fully expect some 'Japanese lovin' individuals in here to know... there is a WhOLLLLE lot of web content in matroska container; in fact, it's manga and anime that really pushed the container into ubiquity. Now... virtually any x264 rip of anything film/video is in mkv container.
Who cares if it's native to Windows? Even if it were, itd be typical MS barebones fodder and, it wouldn't compare in breadth to Haali Matroska splittter

what I wouldn't mind is a FLAC player

My ears can't tell the difference between it and VBR V0 Lame MP3, but here you go; we have that as well in the WinMo world:
http://picard.exceed.hu/tcpmp/test/

The WinMo ecosystem is alive and well and will only be more banging when WinMo marketplace hits. Apple is pushing every other mobile OS to be better and I like it.

[stevetam]

Apple is omniscient. Steve Jobs has been to the future and has a time machine in his basement.




I actually hope apple crashes and burns. I feel I was ripped off on my macbook, but that's a whole other story.

Also, I detest the iPod and much of what the iPhone has come to symbolize now, but I do admire the app store's breadth!

Just wish they made some universal media players for Pre and iPhone. I hate transcoding stuff; just want it to work.

he does have some sort of time machine. But I like to think that history likes to repeat itself. After all its not feasible that Apple will be leaders forever. Even Bill Gate recognizes his time may be up as the innovator and number 1 in software eventually.

Now I truly spite iTunes. I wouldn't mind an iPhone if the data plans weren't so expensive, but also why iTunes is a mandatory thing for all iPods jsut bugs me. Why can't they do drag and drop on windows explorer! Hell even keitais have that...

Universal media player??? that would go through Palm, but Apple letting that go through their fingers??/ NO WAY! Just look why they blocked Google's Voice App. But as far as I'm concerned Apple gets way too much leeway from carriers. Its not bad that they innovate but its NOT THEIR JOB to give the service.....

[yamanote]

C'monnn, even most here agree The iPhone is a smart-phone by all measurements, and you are not very convincing at all otherwise and you haven't substantiated your lowly characterization of it in he least. By any definition I can find, the iPhone is a smartphone and it is more useful and well rounded than a keitai, IMO (since when were keitais purchased by gaijin for their functionality anyway? they barely have any), not because of a keitais hw, but sw. My original point was merely that even my archaic smartphone excels in terms of the totality of sw features, so certainly the iPhone constitutes smartphone...

Actually I bought my keitai for the hardware not the software...

Since you chose the ham-handed reply route, I'll try my best to reply accordingly...

1. PIM managers are a joke by comparison and only introduce an additional layer of sw obfuscation. You're a reasonable dude so I don't see why you'd portend otherwise. Doing so implies not having slightest familiarity of office/mobile convergence and doesn't speak accurately for the mainstream ubiquity that is ms office.

What? Like I said, the keitai's built-in PIM manager supports OTA syncing with docomo...

2. Somehow I doubt it.Pls. elaborate on your 2004 dumb phone. keitais can't even play mp3...why bother w/ A2DP or Stereo BT profiels then? WMA is totally obscure by comparison.

Because you can simply use MTP mode to sync everything over (including album artwork, album name, artist etc.). I'd rather not drag and drop a thousand mp3s and add album artwork separately.

What about forcing media player audio over BT headset (a hack of the profile so I doubt you can); what about syncing contacts, calendar, and tasks over BT? What about a desktop calendar that brings these calendar events in with Google Calendar (and other ICS) seamlessly, all editable from the desktop so total transparency?

Maybe there's something different about my moto L6 and my N73 but they could stream mono music to a normal BT headset. Haven't tried on my keitai since mono BT music sucks anyways.

3. Not talking about iPhone. Nowhere did I say I have an iPhone; stated the opposite in fact. Jar apps are for the most part: slow, cumbersome, limited by sandbox design, and crappy. I avoid them. like the plague... as do many.

Except keitais use a different format of JAR which isn't used in other parts of the world which are tailored for WVGA screens so they work perfectly fine.

But I"m glad your old dumbphone can support a mere 99% of the formats I listed I can use on my smartphone (which by the way isn't an all inclusive list).

^^ Edited


4.Moot, moot. Never said I was using 3G; never said I was using an iPhone; GV can be utilized (to an extent) within skype, gizmo, browser, etc. all within most smartphones, regardless of whether there's a native iPhone app per se. Does keitai has a Skype and/or gizmo client, or other VoIP native client (preferably with free sip incoming number to compare apples to apples i.e. gizmo). Though that app would really kick butt. Makes me wanna get an Android phone.

Not native but I don't think a smartphone has a native Skype app and 'Gizmo' w/e that it or Google Voice. They're all separate apps and there's probably an app for that for keitais.

5.Auto record phone with full recorder/playback/organizer gui interface? See:
http://vitotechnology.com/vito-audionotes.html
http://vitotechnology.com/mobile-audio-recorder.html

I doubt it. Notwithstanding, not just talking about recording phone calls, but personal notes/meetings/conversations/etc via speaker/mic so yes format does indeed matter (either way personally as mp3 is much better sq than the crappy low bitrate built-in winmo wav audio notes which can't even record mobile conversations).

If I really needed to record a phone call to hold a business by their neck then you're dealing with a very untrustworthy business. Besides if I really needed to record I'd use a landline not a mobile.

6. Viewer at best; Mobile Office and Adobe Mobile > 3rd party no matter how you cut the cake... everybody knows this so nonsensical to address your nuances...

For the record, I both create and edit pdfs on desktop

Well you have to pay $100 or something for Adobe Professional or w/e it's called. If you use opensource software then it doesn't count.

7.What that has to do with OneNote syncing is beyond me.

8.Dunno about keitais but they're so locked down so I'm guessing not (via native os file system at least)... sure some (not all) phones will; others will not allow you to access a sd card unless via some crappy 3rd party file explorer, W5Storage does a lot, particularly the latest which will allow the phone to simultaneously access the SD for the OS while using it (read status) for removable storage uses... blink lights on storage read/write, etc. You should check out the feature list if you're interested...

Why I would need to edit the OS is beyond me. 'Blink light on storage read/right'? Is that a joke? For the record my SH-06A's led does blink now and then when it's in MicroSD mode. And OMG- the screen actually says 'MicroSD mode'! That's a smartphone feature!!!!!!111!!!!!

9.There are good apps; tom-tom for intance. speaking of which, just saw an awesome gps style of app today for iPhone called Where. Sort of a mashup... cant' wait to check it out when I upgrade to new WinMo or Pre
http://www.where.com/

It's just that even the best GPS receiver for mobile devices (the SirifStar4) is still crappy compared to a typical receiver for a car. Which is why my car's GPS can lock onto a signal within 5 seconds of starting the car and my HP iPaq device w/ SirifStarIII needs 30 or so seconds to find a signal. It's the hardware not software. But for the record Garmin Mobile XT lagged on my X1.

Also plenty of utility of GPS/mapping sw outside of a car and not everyone everyone wants to care a 2nd doo-hickey (in fact, most probably do not).

Then it isn't going to be very reliable. Mobile receivers, like I said, are mostly crap unless you buy those 'for hiking' devices.


10.Doesn't matter if you don't like to edit, or you ignore fast feature rich viewer. I use PS too Overkill and useless for the desired application. Apples to oranges...

Ps isn't available for a smartphone so this is not part of the topic. What's the point of editing pictures on a phone anyways?

11. Sucks; love both apps and control and more granular control of installation of apps (read: free & archive)... and .jar... well

Because you can freely install apps on the iphone? At least on a keitai random developers can develop apps and release it onto the web for everyone to download...

12.That's supposed to negate my feature (that you solicited)? mmkkay...

13. But can you on keitai? I don't know what 'SE' is...

I thought SE was pretty well known as Sony Ericsson but you're too engrossed in your 'High Tech Corp.' device right now no?

14. Tried i-mode *full* browser (anything less is akin to PIE I would think (i-mode site=wap site?) and I guess I'm not seeing it. Can you tell me how i-mode full is more notable than http://www.skyfire.com/??

WAP is crap. i-mode is something designed for mobile devices. It's heavily used in Japan. Not sure what i-mode full browser is. Maybe you meant Netfront Full Browser which is built-in to every keitai?

15. It's called 'scaling' and I never suggested using it over 3G, lol. I'm glad you like using your laptop though. Fortunately for me, my argument isn't 'my archaic phone can do more than your fancy notebook'.

A $400 HP netbook isn't very fancy and based on your arguments your smartphone can do more than my netbook.

16. Not sure a response is necessary on this...

17.I wasn't talking about carrying anything anywhere. I'm talking about at home. I have the luxury of working at home, so I love this little remote app for my candy bar, esp. when it's plugged in charging/syncing anyway.

Although I do find it slightly ironic that you would argue your notebook over mobile in many respects but take qualm with a ultra portable (foldable) BT keyboard.

'Ultra portable'.... looks down...

In any case, asus netbook doesn't fit in pocket, and I'm about to sell it until HDMI/Ion/Win7 Netbooks come onto market at the end of this year... too limited for what I would like out of it now.

In any case none of the ultra portable BT keyboards fit in my pocket. Do you wear cargo pants with extra-droopy pockets?

But it goes w/o saying one isn't all there if they use a notebook for some things mentioned while mobile. But I'm sure that's not what you meant.

Anyway, my intention was only to address a rather smart comment earlier... so no hard feelings. Obviously, I like keitais or I wouldn't be here... as I said would love to see that tech with U.S. software ingenuity (a dept I feel the Japanese devs lack in) which would make an awesome device but with an accessible (and popular) OS, so that devs can get behind it and tweak it. Because whether it's DoCoMo, Softbank or Verizon, they'll always try and cripple device features that interfere with the capitalizaiton of the said device in any way, which is why I like WinMo (they don't even bother to cripple in many respects, just add bloat), Android (open source), and iPhone (good API; jailbreaked of course & w/o ATT) because the unified effort of crackers/tweakers/developers will always yield great things for the consumer.

Jailbreaking is not 'permitted' by Apple so some useful apps don't work. DCM and SB (wait, you don't know what that is?) is far from locked down compared to Verizon. Verizon lets you install 3 apps or so while keitais have way way more.

For now, I'll stick to my beloved HTC (and maybe a Palm's Pre if their app store gets shakin' and if they change a few things in the revision). F--k iPhone as long as they stay with ATT... but it doesn't mean I don't respect the device/negate it's smartness, even if I don't find it's attention a bit over the top and it's service price points a bit unattractive

No hard feelings I hope and I do not appreciate all the help that yamanote's given me in the past.

Are they HTML 5 capable? Web 2.0 capable? Capable of being browserless and use its process to run Webapps and WRT Widgets? I doubt it. Webkit browsers have semi-OS functionality. When they put Office 2010 and Google Docs in the Web, these browsers will (supposedly) be ready for all Cloud developments.

This is the direction where mobile browsers are heading. Leaving the classic PDA definition of smartphones into true Webphones.

Err... I have no idea what html 5 and web 2.0 is but the Full Browser probably supports it, yeah.


I wish thread starters could delete useless replies (including my own) that are not related to the topic.

[stevetam]

It's fair. I don't want to deviate too much, but let me just tell you (and I would fully expect some 'Japanese lovin' individuals in here to know... there is a WhOLLLLE lot of web content in matroska container; in fact, it's manga and anime that really pushed the container into ubiquity. Now... virtually any x264 rip of anything film/video is in mkv container.
Who cares if it's native to Windows? Even if it were, itd be typical MS barebones fodder and, it wouldn't compare in breadth to Haali Matroska splittter

My ears can't tell the difference between it and VBR V0 Lame MP3, but here you go; we have that as well in the WinMo world:
http://picard.exceed.hu/tcpmp/test/

I've only seen MKV recently when I spam downloaded Ayu's music videos. AS far I see there is better quality than AVI at a higher compression. Thank goodness for VLC so I can play it. But MKV is promised to be a natively supported for windows 7, obviously the better choice for HD videos. I guess eventually the first signs of MKV in phones would be for Samsung and LG to have their touchscreen phones with Spam codecs and such. Hopefully recording too will be in a choice of AVC, AVI or MKV

If you listen carefully you can hear stuff on 10Mbit that you can't hear on a 320kbps VBR mp3. Then again its hard to hear. But when you listen to the music with expensive earphones the FLAC starts to shine.

[yamanote]

There is nothing revolutionary about Keitai hardware either. Screens are cheap. In China, they build Netbooks with 10" to 11" screens for the price of phones. Honestly I don't consider screens special. Touchscreen phones are also dime a dozen nowadays. If people in the West thinks that 4" screen phones are sellable, they would have made them already. But no...carriers and makers have specific size limitations because that is what they believe customers will stand for. They have already tried various 4" to 7" mobile devices, but Internet tablets, MIDs and so on, and they have not proven to sell. Maybe Apple will change the game when its own rumored tablet appears.

(snip)

I thought that 3.3" WVGA screens weren't exactly cheap. Based on what you're saying, 8MP/10MP CCD sensors aren't revolutionary. These phones aren't internet tablets or MIDs or cameras but phones which is why it's so amazing.

[stevetam]

Originally Posted by hakujin
C'monnn, even most here agree The iPhone is a smart-phone by all measurements, and you are not very convincing at all otherwise and you haven't substantiated your lowly characterization of it in he least. By any definition I can find, the iPhone is a smartphone and it is more useful and well rounded than a keitai, IMO (since when were keitais purchased by gaijin for their functionality anyway? they barely have any), not because of a keitais hw, but sw. My original point was merely that even my archaic smartphone excels in terms of the totality of sw features, so certainly the iPhone constitutes smartphone...

Actually I bought my keitai for the hardware not the software...

Since you chose the ham-handed reply route, I'll try my best to reply accordingly...

1. PIM managers are a joke by comparison and only introduce an additional layer of sw obfuscation. You're a reasonable dude so I don't see why you'd portend otherwise. Doing so implies not having slightest familiarity of office/mobile convergence and doesn't speak accurately for the mainstream ubiquity that is ms office.

What? Like I said, the keitai's built-in PIM manager supports OTA syncing with docomo...

2. Somehow I doubt it.Pls. elaborate on your 2004 dumb phone. keitais can't even play mp3...why bother w/ A2DP or Stereo BT profiels then? WMA is totally obscure by comparison.

Because you can simply use MTP mode to sync everything over (including album artwork, album name, artist etc.). I'd rather not drag and drop a thousand mp3s and add album artwork separately.

What about forcing media player audio over BT headset (a hack of the profile so I doubt you can); what about syncing contacts, calendar, and tasks over BT? What about a desktop calendar that brings these calendar events in with Google Calendar (and other ICS) seamlessly, all editable from the desktop so total transparency?

Maybe there's something different about my moto L6 and my N73 but they could stream mono music to a normal BT headset. Haven't tried on my keitai since mono BT music sucks anyways.

3. Not talking about iPhone. Nowhere did I say I have an iPhone; stated the opposite in fact. Jar apps are for the most part: slow, cumbersome, limited by sandbox design, and crappy. I avoid them. like the plague... as do many.

Except keitais use a different format of JAR which isn't used in other parts of the world which are tailored for WVGA screens so they work perfectly fine.

But I"m glad your old dumbphone can support a mere 99% of the formats I listed I can use on my smartphone (which by the way isn't an all inclusive list).

^^ Edited


4.Moot, moot. Never said I was using 3G; never said I was using an iPhone; GV can be utilized (to an extent) within skype, gizmo, browser, etc. all within most smartphones, regardless of whether there's a native iPhone app per se. Does keitai has a Skype and/or gizmo client, or other VoIP native client (preferably with free sip incoming number to compare apples to apples i.e. gizmo). Though that app would really kick butt. Makes me wanna get an Android phone.

Not native but I don't think a smartphone has a native Skype app and 'Gizmo' w/e that it or Google Voice. They're all separate apps and there's probably an app for that for keitais.

5.Auto record phone with full recorder/playback/organizer gui interface? See:
http://vitotechnology.com/vito-audionotes.html
http://vitotechnology.com/mobile-audio-recorder.html

I doubt it. Notwithstanding, not just talking about recording phone calls, but personal notes/meetings/conversations/etc via speaker/mic so yes format does indeed matter (either way personally as mp3 is much better sq than the crappy low bitrate built-in winmo wav audio notes which can't even record mobile conversations).

If I really needed to record a phone call to hold a business by their neck then you're dealing with a very untrustworthy business. Besides if I really needed to record I'd use a landline not a mobile.

6. Viewer at best; Mobile Office and Adobe Mobile > 3rd party no matter how you cut the cake... everybody knows this so nonsensical to address your nuances...

For the record, I both create and edit pdfs on desktop

Well you have to pay $100 or something for Adobe Professional or w/e it's called. If you use opensource software then it doesn't count.

7.What that has to do with OneNote syncing is beyond me.

8.Dunno about keitais but they're so locked down so I'm guessing not (via native os file system at least)... sure some (not all) phones will; others will not allow you to access a sd card unless via some crappy 3rd party file explorer, W5Storage does a lot, particularly the latest which will allow the phone to simultaneously access the SD for the OS while using it (read status) for removable storage uses... blink lights on storage read/write, etc. You should check out the feature list if you're interested...

Why I would need to edit the OS is beyond me. 'Blink light on storage read/right'? Is that a joke? For the record my SH-06A's led does blink now and then when it's in MicroSD mode. And OMG- the screen actually says 'MicroSD mode'! That's a smartphone feature!!!!!!111!!!!!

9.There are good apps; tom-tom for intance. speaking of which, just saw an awesome gps style of app today for iPhone called Where. Sort of a mashup... cant' wait to check it out when I upgrade to new WinMo or Pre
http://www.where.com/

It's just that even the best GPS receiver for mobile devices (the SirifStar4) is still crappy compared to a typical receiver for a car. Which is why my car's GPS can lock onto a signal within 5 seconds of starting the car and my HP iPaq device w/ SirifStarIII needs 30 or so seconds to find a signal. It's the hardware not software. But for the record Garmin Mobile XT lagged on my X1.

Also plenty of utility of GPS/mapping sw outside of a car and not everyone everyone wants to care a 2nd doo-hickey (in fact, most probably do not).

Then it isn't going to be very reliable. Mobile receivers, like I said, are mostly crap unless you buy those 'for hiking' devices.


10.Doesn't matter if you don't like to edit, or you ignore fast feature rich viewer. I use PS too Overkill and useless for the desired application. Apples to oranges...

Ps isn't available for a smartphone so this is not part of the topic. What's the point of editing pictures on a phone anyways?

11. Sucks; love both apps and control and more granular control of installation of apps (read: free & archive)... and .jar... well

Because you can freely install apps on the iphone? At least on a keitai random developers can develop apps and release it onto the web for everyone to download...

12.That's supposed to negate my feature (that you solicited)? mmkkay...

13. But can you on keitai? I don't know what 'SE' is...

I thought SE was pretty well known as Sony Ericsson but you're too engrossed in your 'High Tech Corp.' device right now no?

14. Tried i-mode *full* browser (anything less is akin to PIE I would think (i-mode site=wap site?) and I guess I'm not seeing it. Can you tell me how i-mode full is more notable than http://www.skyfire.com/??

WAP is crap. i-mode is something designed for mobile devices. It's heavily used in Japan. Not sure what i-mode full browser is. Maybe you meant Netfront Full Browser which is built-in to every keitai?

15. It's called 'scaling' and I never suggested using it over 3G, lol. I'm glad you like using your laptop though. Fortunately for me, my argument isn't 'my archaic phone can do more than your fancy notebook'.

A $400 HP netbook isn't very fancy and based on your arguments your smartphone can do more than my netbook.

16. Not sure a response is necessary on this...

17.I wasn't talking about carrying anything anywhere. I'm talking about at home. I have the luxury of working at home, so I love this little remote app for my candy bar, esp. when it's plugged in charging/syncing anyway.

Although I do find it slightly ironic that you would argue your notebook over mobile in many respects but take qualm with a ultra portable (foldable) BT keyboard.

'Ultra portable'.... looks down...

In any case, asus netbook doesn't fit in pocket, and I'm about to sell it until HDMI/Ion/Win7 Netbooks come onto market at the end of this year... too limited for what I would like out of it now.

In any case none of the ultra portable BT keyboards fit in my pocket. Do you wear cargo pants with extra-droopy pockets?

But it goes w/o saying one isn't all there if they use a notebook for some things mentioned while mobile. But I'm sure that's not what you meant.

Anyway, my intention was only to address a rather smart comment earlier... so no hard feelings. Obviously, I like keitais or I wouldn't be here... as I said would love to see that tech with U.S. software ingenuity (a dept I feel the Japanese devs lack in) which would make an awesome device but with an accessible (and popular) OS, so that devs can get behind it and tweak it. Because whether it's DoCoMo, Softbank or Verizon, they'll always try and cripple device features that interfere with the capitalizaiton of the said device in any way, which is why I like WinMo (they don't even bother to cripple in many respects, just add bloat), Android (open source), and iPhone (good API; jailbreaked of course & w/o ATT) because the unified effort of crackers/tweakers/developers will always yield great things for the consumer.

Jailbreaking is not 'permitted' by Apple so some useful apps don't work. DCM and SB (wait, you don't know what that is?) is far from locked down compared to Verizon. Verizon lets you install 3 apps or so while keitais have way way more.

For now, I'll stick to my beloved HTC (and maybe a Palm's Pre if their app store gets shakin' and if they change a few things in the revision). F--k iPhone as long as they stay with ATT... but it doesn't mean I don't respect the device/negate it's smartness, even if I don't find it's attention a bit over the top and it's service price points a bit unattractive

No hard feelings I hope and I do not appreciate all the help that yamanote's given me in the past.

uh-oh... trollz!!!

From this long argueent and discussion I think I'm starting to figure out an overall keitai-smartphone expectation:

1. WEB oriented. Full browser: HTML 5, Web 2.0, Full flash. Also apps that can conncet to mobile networks and do downloads or perform wireless tasks

2. Application oriented: Lots of flexilibity in what you want. Tailor the phone to your needs whether its games to converters

3. Pc - Office extentions: the ability not only to read normal offic fiels but to edit them. Presuming you do have some sort of physical keyboard or virtual QWERTY

4. Media base: The ability to stream tV off the internet and also use digital mediums within certain regions like 1-seg or DVB. Also there must be the ability to play and view as many media forms as possible whether it is video (AVI, MKV, MP4), music or photos Obviously camera

5. Pracitcal Applications: The ability to use apps in the real world to help assist in daily life: E.g. Osaifu apps or integrated octopus card. Also bluetooth profiles not only to be able to communicate low memory packets but also for audio and handsfree ability

1-5: ARE ALL software oriented

6. Solid build. Nice touch plastics or metals that don't show fingerprints or scratches too much. Scratch resistant glass or plastic and good quality screen protector availability

7. Good hardware kit. The guts should be fast and efficient with plenty of ram and able to do 3D acceration very easily

8. Gimmick hardware: Camera and screen... how many pixels and inches you want to go??? waulity is not a big issue here .People still fall for numbers. LCD vs OLED, OLED is bound to be a winner but for now LCD is jsut fine.

So to Sum it Up I have determined the Smartphone rules
1. Easy to use software and UI
2. Gimmicky and good looking GUI
3. Easily accessible to many networks (Mobile and landline) for other services (twitter or facebook)
4. Plenty of media functions for an increasingly mobile culture
5. the ability to seperate business and life in one phone
6. Good looks and some decent hardware

[hakujin]

I've only seen MKV recently when I spam downloaded Ayu's music videos. AS far I see there is better quality than AVI at a higher compression. Thank goodness for VLC so I can play it. But MKV is promised to be a natively supported for windows 7, obviously the better choice for HD videos. I guess eventually the first signs of MKV in phones would be for Samsung and LG to have their touchscreen phones with Spam codecs and such. Hopefully recording too will be in a choice of AVC, AVI or MKV

AVC is codec... can (and often is) put into mkv

MKVs now are used as the primary distribution method for 1080p and 720p bluray, hddvd, and OTA 1080i rips.

If you listen carefully you can hear stuff on 10Mbit that you can't hear on a 320kbps VBR mp3. Then again its hard to hear. But when you listen to the music with expensive earphones the FLAC starts to shine.

HAHA, not my headphones. not worth the space penalty, IMO, but I am NOT devaluing the quality; it's an excellent lossless format.

[hakujin]

Err... I have no idea what html 5 and web 2.0 is but the Full Browser probably supports it, yeah.

I wish thread starters could delete useless replies (including my own) that are not related to the topic.

Ummm... pot kettle black; your replies are terribly constructed; not quoted and I'm struggling with figuring out how to reply to the last one w/o a great deal of work.

[fireshark]

so many posts... so little time

A few things...

14.i mode is just obscure horse poop in the western world. I"m gonna leave it at that, and say skyfire, webkit, etc. is superior as has been explained ad nauseam by somebody else.

I hope so, the western world can't read japanese. i mode never took off in the western world, which is whi it's horse poop. In japan, imode was there even before anythign else, so stuff like iPhone apps are horse poop.

Whether or not Apple falls for this or not, I will leave history to tell. But certainly the market is delicate and growing .eventually the consumer will want the smaller more powerful system. This also involves the highly flexible nature of mobile communications. The loser will ultimately fail to see that curve in the road and become a casualty. I speak for fact about this: Proprietary is rarely a winner.

Damn you Microsoft !!




Some things about encodan, since I am a fansub encoder and love trollan:

It's fair. I don't want to deviate too much, but let me just tell you (and I would fully expect some 'Japanese lovin' individuals in here to know... there is a WhOLLLLE lot of web content in matroska container; in fact, it's manga and anime that really pushed the container into ubiquity. Now... virtually any x264 rip of anything film/video is in mkv container.
Who cares if it's native to Windows? Even if it were, itd be typical MS barebones fodder and, it wouldn't compare in breadth to Haali Matroska splittter

To be fair, it was really the forward looking individuals who pushed mkv upon the masses; even now many releases are still avi or dual release, depending on the leechers.

WAP is crap. i-mode is something designed for mobile devices. It's heavily used in Japan. Not sure what i-mode full browser is. Maybe you meant Netfront Full Browser which is built-in to every keitai?

unfortunately, WAP is very similar to i-mode. It's just this also looks very similar to every Japanese web site ever made, so they don't mind too much. And the full-browser is labeled 'PC Full Browser', so both of you don't quite hit the spot.

Jailbreaking is not 'permitted' by Apple so some useful apps don't work. DCM and SB (wait, you don't know what that is?) is far from locked down compared to Verizon. Verizon lets you install 3 apps or so while keitais have way way more.

very funny. BREW ecosystem is maintained by Verizon and all apps are $. Why would Verizon want to limit how much money they make?




some more trollan...

Are they HTML 5 capable? Web 2.0 capable? Capable of being browserless and use its process to run Webapps and WRT Widgets? I doubt it. Webkit browsers have semi-OS functionality. When they put Office 2010 and Google Docs in the Web, these browsers will (supposedly) be ready for all Cloud developments.

This is the direction where mobile browsers are heading. Leaving the classic PDA definition of smartphones into true Webphones.

HTML5 is not even fully spec'd and Web 2.0 means nothing. WebKit is a rendering engine and has nothing to do with semi-OS functionality, unless you mean the persistent storage in HTML5, which is not even anywhere close to implementation. <canvas> is farther along. Look at Gears, it is the most popular HTTP persistence mechanism right now. Webapps as apps are simply browser windows without chrome and with a shortcut somewhere. What's your big deal? And Google Docs is already on the web. Been there since it was called Writely.




(stevetam)
> 2. Gimmicky and good looking GUI
IHBT

AVC is codec... can (and often is) put into mkv

MKVs now are used as the primary distribution method for 1080p and 720p bluray, hddvd, and OTA 1080i rips.

finally someone who recognizes the difference between codec and container.
but caps are not done in MKV, there's no point. preserve the original streaming structure: most caps are MPEG-2 TS.

If you listen carefully you can hear stuff on 10Mbit that you can't hear on a 320kbps VBR mp3. Then again its hard to hear. But when you listen to the music with expensive earphones the FLAC starts to shine.

Who are you? CD quality 16bit@44.1 is 1.4Mbps. The craziest DVD-A quality, 24-bit 192khz (24bit PCM sampling floor) barely reaches 10 (9.21Mbps).






A+++++ would troll again

[hakujin]

Actually I bought my keitai for the hardware not the software

-All Japanese Cellphones are unable to use their TV functions and Mobile-Wallet (FeliCa) here.
-All Japanese Cellphones are unable to install Java etc. applications (S! Appli on SoftBank, i-appli on NTT DoCoMo).
-All SoftBank Cellphones after 920SH unable to receive incoming call/SMS under 3G network
-All SoftBank Cellphones released after 920SH will have the Signal OUT Issues (CPR Issues)
-All new models released after 903SH, GPRS is locked. Thus no access to any GPRS related functions like GPS, MMS, EMAILS & etc.
-All NTT DoCoMo’s Bluetooth is limited to earpiece. Only SoftBank models are able to transfer files using Bluetooth.
-Multimedia may get locked back for newer models like 920SH and onwards
-NO MP3

Obviously.

Still waiting for you to explain why a iPhone is NOT a smartphone but your aesthetically pleasing (but otherwise not the most useful) keitai is...

"What? Like I said, the keitai's built-in PIM manager supports OTA syncing with docomo..."

And Like I said... it's not a good comparison and doesn't bolster your 'smarter than' argument. That DoCoMo PIM manager is lousy and uninspired when compared to activesync which converges ms office and mobile

"Because you can simply use MTP mode to sync everything over (including album artwork, album name, artist etc.). I'd rather not drag and drop a thousand mp3s and add album artwork separately."

Umm... I used MTP mode on both my mp3 player and my WM Smartphone. Who's dragging anything? That doesn't invalidate the craptacular and obscure audio format choice that is WMA now does it.

Maybe there's something different about my moto L6 and my N73 but they could stream mono music to a normal BT headset. Haven't tried on my keitai since mono BT music sucks anyways.

It's useful for podcasts where sound quality is not as high a priority. Let me guess, you don't listen to podcasts, therefore, it's not a feature!

Except keitais use a different format of JAR which isn't used in other parts of the world which are tailored for WVGA screens so they work perfectly fine.

Jar is java, Java is poop, therefore jar is poop. modus ponens works well here; you should try. use your fancy 'i-mode' browser and navi to wiki.

But I"m glad your old dumbphone can support a mere 99% of the formats I listed I can use on my smartphone (which by the way isn't an all inclusive list).

But it can't, just picture formats (and only some), according to you. Why did you even bother posting such contrived drivel.

Not native but I don't think a smartphone has a native Skype app and 'Gizmo' w/e that it or Google Voice. They're all separate apps and there's probably an app for that for keitais.

Probably eh? I doubt it, but if you can't back it up, why bother? There are windows mobile apps for both skype and gizmo; I didn't say native but asked if keitai had native app (by mistake). In WinMo world, you'll learn that non-native is usually better, except for Office & Adobe Mobile. iPhone has similar apps too. Even if you could find java keitai substitute to work, it is not 'smart' and is not a fair comparison, even Japanese Java, you are sadly, mistaken.

If I really needed to record a phone call to hold a business by their neck then you're dealing with a very untrustworthy business. Besides if I really needed to record I'd use a landline not a mobile.

such is life... sigh... moot and landlines/your personal tape recorder are 1990s.

Well you have to pay $100 or something for Adobe Professional or w/e it's called. If you use opensource software then it doesn't count.

moot. and waht do you mean doesn't count?! lmao.

It's just that even the best GPS receiver for mobile devices (the SirifStar4) is still crappy compared to a typical receiver for a car. Which is why my car's GPS can lock onto a signal within 5 seconds of starting the car and my HP iPaq device w/ SirifStarIII needs 30 or so seconds to find a signal. It's the hardware not software. But for the record Garmin Mobile XT lagged on my X1.

Your personal opinion and moot anyway. You can't even use GPS on on phone so what's the point of even arguing it... because YOU (i.e. singular) think it's not useful does not negate its utility in smartphones/pocketPCs... get a grip and step out of your vacuum for a sec. There's tons of uses for GPS functionality in phones and TomTom works well; many are enamored by it. It's use in a variety of applications is exciting to the mainstream. Just BECAUSE YOU DON'T FIND A USE FOR IT DOES NOT MAKE YOUR PHONE SMART AND IPHONE (OR ANY SMARTPHONE) LESS SMART. Your logic is frightening.

Then it isn't going to be very reliable. Mobile receivers, like I said, are mostly crap unless you buy those 'for hiking' devices.

Once again, your opinion and it doesn't substantiate your argument, only hurts it. And for the sake of this silliness, YES, I HIKE WITH IT! And I play geocaching sports/games! VERY ACCURATE! lol. But do tell, what makes hiking different than say, walking down a street and finding a good restaurant or the directions to the nearest Arthouse Theater?

Ps isn't available for a smartphone so this is not part of the topic. What's the point of editing pictures on a phone anyways?

LOL, you're pulling my chain right? Really, you must be... As someone else here would say, 'who are you'? Re-read my posts, lol.

Because you can freely install apps on the iphone? At least on a keitai random developers can develop apps and release it onto the web for everyone to download...

YES, you can! On iPhone, Smartphone, PPC, you name it! and it's not a inferior sandboxed java app either... made for the specific mobile OS; better by design.

I thought SE was pretty well known as Sony Ericsson but you're too engrossed in your 'High Tech Corp.' device right now no?

I'll take that as a no, I can't on my keitai, lol

WAP is crap. i-mode is something designed for mobile devices. It's heavily used in Japan. Not sure what i-mode full browser is. Maybe you meant Netfront Full Browser which is built-in to every keitai?

Umm... kinda like WAP (i.e. designed for mobile). Full mode just means it can render a normal web page correctly. It's sad that YOU don't even understand that.

In any case none of the ultra portable BT keyboards fit in my pocket. Do you wear cargo pants with extra-droopy pockets?

Irony: whoooosh. The question is do I carry a bt keyboard or notebook around, no? Do you carry a Japanese phone and notebook/netbook? YES! Does it have anything at all to do with why an iPhone is not a smartphone and your seemingly crippled quasi-feature phone is? No.

Jailbreaking is not 'permitted'.

Who the F cares if it's permitted? To that end, hypersimming is probably not permitted on keitai, so you have a fancy paperweight, lol.

Stick a fork in me because I'm done...

[fireshark]

And Like I said... it's not a good comparison and doesn't bolster your 'smarter than' argument. That DoCoMo PIM manager is lousy and uninspired when compared to AS.

oh come off it... how inspired can a sync applicatio be?

[Drillbit]

Err... I have no idea what html 5 and web 2.0 is but the Full Browser probably supports it, yeah.

HTML 5 is the next generation of HTML, and no if your browser is i-Mode it won't support it. This is really powerful stuff, potentially it can make Flash and native apps obsolete in the process.

Even i-Mode founder thinks i-Mode is a dead end. Next generation Keitai must be equipped with HTML 5 ready browsers to embrace the incoming mobile web revolution. That isn't hard to do.

Traditional operating system is one that is designed to manage hardware for the user experience.

New definition of operating system, call it Net operating system, WebOS or CloudOS is an operating system designed to manage Web resources for the user experience. This is the direction we all embrace.

So basically, phone or mobile OS must be increasingly optimized, not just to be user friendly or accessible or easy to manage the device resources, but to make it easier and more accessible to seamlessly access Web & Cloud resources & services. Right now, I think Android and Palm WebOS fits this definition best, a jump even over iPhone OSX.

Personally I don't find it unfeasible that Docomo would one day, take Android and make a customized variant of it, lets hypothetically call it FOMA-A, as A for Android. In China, China Mobile is now marketing a custom variant of Android called OMS. Sony Ericsson has Rachael, and HTC has Sense.