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Thread: [News] Rogers Billing Error (re BCB) = $30M

  1. #1
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    Exclamation [News] Rogers Billing Error (re BCB) = $30M

    Heh heh heh. And one more HEH! for good measure.

    First, thx to Ellen Roseman for the info:
    - 500,000 Rogers customers charged incorrectly
    - June 18 2010 by Ellen Roseman
    - http://www.ellenroseman.com/?p=898

    Second: It only affects those who are have 'Better Choice Bundle' on their account

    Third: Per Rog, 200K cx's were underbilled, 300K cx's were OVERbilled. Underbilling will not be clawed-back. Overbilling will be refunded directly to a cx's account (if they're still a cx, otherwise they get a cheque).

    Fourth: Total overbilling = $30M

    Fifth: Rog, in the fashion typical of the bully, has cowardly released this info late on a summer's Friday. Way to live down to expectation there, Rog.
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    Rog info for cx's about this FUBAR:
    rogers.com/BCBupdate

    Rog Press Release (new word: "under-discounted" where "over-billed" used to suffice. Barf.):
    http://cnw.ca/en/releases/archive/Ju...tml?view=print

    Official BCB (Better Choice Bundles) 'short-webcode' page:
    rogers.com/BetterChoice
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    Looks good on ya Rog:
    - $30M ding to the pocketbook (oh now shush you Rog apologists, we all know that Rog reaps gobs of cashish and $30M ain't all that big a gob in that context ... but someone's dep't sure has sum 'spainin to do and I can't hear you over the drone of my schadenfreude-shake machine anyway ; )
    - bad PR about your absolutely BROKEN, UNRELIABLE, CAPRICIOUS fork-turdian billing system ... which just might prod others to review their bills and see all the FUBAR's that is your billing product
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    Big Picture:
    Peeps, do not ever trust your Rog bill to be correct if you think it is wrong. Their bean-counters are not reliable, their bill-constructors are not reliable and their billing systems are systemically broken.

    Do not assume that you have no rights in law or in contract ... their lawyers ain't so hot either (Rogers v Aliant - the Million Dollar Comma Case).

    Do not assume there are no 'loop-holes' (unforeseen or obscure uses of The Contract to benefit a cx).

    Distrust Rog in every way is the moral here, IMO.
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    Maybe the ultimate "Better Choice" is Wind ; )

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    What scammers they are

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    Certainly doesn't sound like they're trying to scam people.

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    Yes it is on the front page of the Toronto Star now.........

    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...-too-much?bn=1

    Rogers customers paid $30 million too much
    Average refunds will be $100


    Admit it. You always thought you were getting ripped off even though you bundled your cellphone with your Internet and added cable and a home phone to boot.

    Well, you’re right.

    Rogers Communications on Friday announced about 300,000 customers never received the correct discounts for all of their bundling.

    It seems there were some clerical errors and system-related issues with the Better Choice Bundles package that offered discounts of up to 15 per cent if you had all four services.

    They’ll be refunding about $30 million, including interest and taxes to current and former customers.

    That sounds like a lot of cash but the average refund will be around $100.

    Another 200,000 customers, give or take, actually received a better discount than they should have but don’t worry, you won’t have to give any of that cash back.

    “Once we identified the issue, we initiated a comprehensive review of current and former customer accounts to identify those that were not correctly billed,” said Phil Hartling, a senior vice-president with Rogers in a news release.

    “We have been working around the clock to make this right and we apologize to our affected customers.”

    Customers don’t have to do anything. Notices are being sent out on June 22 and the correct discount will be applied against your next two bills. All existing customers who paid too much will receive a credit on their account. Former customers will get a refund cheque in the mail, if they have your current address.
    Ask me for my Nickname online at HEATWARE and RFD to see my full 100% ratings!

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    This sooooo pisses me of as I have just had about 3-4 angry phone calls with Rogers over the last 2 months over NUMEROUS mistakes they have made with me.
    And I did have the better choice bundles. One of my complaints was that they cut my cell phone of by mistake once----but what i didn't know for 8 onths as what when they did this, and put it back on, which they paid me for in ways of a discount for one year, the forgot to turn on my specialty channels for my TV. Granted, I wasn't watching it so I didnt notice---long story short, w hen i did, it turns out that i had had this discount as part of my bundles so i was paying less to have it but then we found out that for 6 of the 8 months they weren't giving it to me, and not charging me for it which means I was paying more and i argued it with them but they just kept pretending it as all right---i suspect i will be one of the ones receiving this as it was also discovered at one point that they forgot to bill me $150 over an 8 month persiod or so they say, and i have to pay it although i never kept my bills that long ( my mistake/one i have learned from ) so i certainly welcome.....

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    wow. i really hope your other 251 posts weren't as confusing as the last one. does anybody else understand the above post at all?

    And to BellVictim:

    Everyone makes mistakes. I don't care how many security measures and double checking policies you have in effect, if something as large as a billing system that handles over 30 million accounts on a monthly basis isn't allowed to make a mistake I don't know what is.

    Thank you for bringing it up in the forum so that everyone is educated and aware of it. But adding your own snarky and often stupid remarks is really not required. What do you want Rogers to do? You said they were being sneaky by releasing the news "Late on a summers friday". What if they had released the news on "Early on a spring's Wednesday? Oh wait, that's probably the day you are busy eating babies....I can guarantee that you would have found something stupid to say about any combination of day, season and time that rogers decided to release the info . There just isn't any pleasing you at all. You should just get two soup cans and a long peice of string and call it a day.


    But besides all that, Rogers did in fact make a HUGE mistake. However, they are fixing it in the most efficient manner possible. Too bad Nadir doesn't have a time machine, otherwise he could just warp back in time and make sure it never happened at all, that would be ideal, wouldn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmKorp View Post
    And to BellVictim:

    Everyone makes mistakes. I don't care how many security measures and double checking policies you have in effect, if something as large as a billing system that handles over 30 million accounts on a monthly basis isn't allowed to make a mistake I don't know what is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmKorp View Post
    Everyone makes mistakes. I don't care how many security measures and double checking policies you have in effect, if something as large as a billing system that handles over 30 million accounts on a monthly basis isn't allowed to make a mistake I don't know what is.
    It's not "a" mistake. According to Rog's press release it's both "administrative error" and "system related issues" (the latter being vague enough to mean almost anything .... or is that everything).

    I'm not raking Rog for a single billing SNAFU. This is a SYSTEMIC billing error. Hundreds of thousands of cx's are impacted. MILLIONS of wrong bills were sent out. Rog's QA on their billing systems is obviously, woefully inadequate.

    How many months did this go on for? We don't know because Rog, as a SCUMMY company, isn't telling us.

    We're told 5% of cx's are affected but what we're not told is what portion of BCB-subscribed cx's are affected. Is it 25%, 50% ... 100%?

    And let me make clear, I'm aware of other, SYSTEMIC billing problems ... some of which are BY SPECIFIC DESIGN of Rog's own hand.

    IMO part of the genesis for all these problems is that Rog has chosen to offer such a complicated regime of products/plans/add-ons/caveats/restrictions/limitations/information/details/legal-agreements/GOTCHAs that:
    a) cx's cannot reasonably hope to comprehend it all,
    b) rep's cannot reasonably hope to comprehend it all and advise cx's accurately on it all, and
    c) Rog, clearly, can't even correctly bill it all.

    And furthermore, their design of the user interface for reps lends itself to to billings errors. The ones I'm aware of have errors that are to the detriment of cx's (which is also my own experience about who usually is harmed by a billing error - rarely Rog, usually the cx. No accident in that imbalance there, IMO.)

    But adding your own snarky and often stupid remarks is really not required.
    But it's oh so much irresistible FUN!

    Seriously, they induce cx's to sign up for "Better Choice" Bundles and then screw up the billing. Some kind of better choice there.

    The mockery is just too, too enticing to resist.

    What do you want Rogers to do?
    Let's start with getting my bill correct each and every month. Is that too much to ask?

    To effect that maybe Rog should simplify the setup - something that's entirely within THEIR control.

    You said they were being sneaky by releasing the news "Late on a summers friday". What if they had released the news on "Early on a spring's Wednesday?
    Are you not familiar with the expressing "burying news"?

    It's a well-known technique of PR organs, to release unfavourable releases late on Fridays so that they'll get less attention.

    (Yes, Rog is that kind of company, make no mistake.)

    But besides all that, Rogers did in fact make a HUGE mistake. However, they are fixing it in the most efficient manner possible. Too bad Nadir doesn't have a time machine, otherwise he could just warp back in time and make sure it never happened at all, that would be ideal, wouldn't it?
    I'll bet more than a few cx's would love to borrow that time machine, too.

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    Does anybody know exactly what the error was?

    Is it something silly like the BCB discount was not being applied to the whole bill, but only the MSF part of it? Or is it something else entirely?
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    I don't have the bundle but my cell bill for june was 2$40cents or something......hmm....

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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble.tea View Post
    Does anybody know exactly what the error was?
    Tellingly, Rog isn't telling.

    Says a bit about what kind of company Rog is, eh?

    IMO the most offensive part of their /BCBupdates missive is:
    How will I know if I've been affected?

    If your account has been affected, you will receive a notification letter by mid-July.
    So basically the cx trusted Rog to get the bill correct the first time, Rog didn't, someone found out, Rog admits the problem and says people will have their bills corrected. 'Just trust us'.

    Right.

    How about:
    Rip me off me once, shame on you.
    Rip me off me twice, shame on me.

    Other noticeably absent info:
    1) They don’t say what percentage of BCB accounts were affected, just what %’age of total cx’s
    2) They don’t say when the problem started
    3) They don’t say how many millions of incorrect bills were sent out
    4) They don't tell a cx how to determine, for themselves, if they specifically were affected.

    They're saying, 'Just trust us, we'll get it right this time and we'll let you know if we owe you any money."

    How about, "No, the Trust is gone."?

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    The error was that the whole percentage of the BCB (depending on how many services you have bundled you get 5%, 10% or 15% off your bill) was not being applied fully.

    Its funny when individuals who have no grasp of how systems, such as the ones used for billing and database management, work. They still end up saying "To effect that maybe Rog should simplify the setup - something that's entirely within THEIR control."

    You are not the only one in this entire country that has pitched the idea of a "simplier" billing system. We are talking about tens of millions of accounts, often each with multiple services. All I'm saying is it doesn't sound all that easy to simplify to me.

    Truthfully, this should have been caught sooner. No matter how Rogers explains it or what type of wording they used to describe it. It was a mistake/oversight.

    If you want less selection and less customization in your plans, there are other service providers out there that can help you out. I can think of 3 off the top of my head. This is all moot anyways, if the situation was different, if rogers only proivded 3 voice plans, 1 data option and no other add-ons, everyone complaining now, would be complaining then too about lack of choice. There just isn't pleasing everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmKorp View Post
    You are not the only one in this entire country that has pitched the idea of a "simplier" billing system. We are talking about tens of millions of accounts, often each with multiple services. All I'm saying is it doesn't sound all that easy to simplify to me.
    My devils' advocate question becomes: is there the need for My5 vs My5National vs My10 vs My10National; unlim browsing add-on ... except for certain phones; data, but dependent on phone it's different SOC's & pricing.

    Have a one-rate all-Canada price for airtime. Have no cross-roaming agreement with ICE & Dryden to avoid the exception to the 'Canada-wide' ease of description.

    Never hide details in the little, bottom-of-the-page "LegalDisclaimer".

    Data is data, no hassle/deceit about tethering.

    Etc.

    Yes, simplicity would lead to less choice, but likely not so little choice as you might suggest.

    E.G. No 'secret' RET deals, even though I benefit mightily from them. The details of RET plans are not published (putting them a tad in conflict with the ToS which states that "any current document describing the plans" ... since the cx has no access to any docs on their RET plan) so a cx has no way to even find out officially, from 'printed' info (versus capricious reps) what their plan is or if it's being billed correctly, or becomes changed per Rog's ToS giving Rog the right to do so, etc.

    There just isn't pleasing everyone.
    That is true, but given the 'F's awarded by BBB to all the big three there's obviously much that can be done to improve the cx-comprehension-of-plans-and-GOTCHAs, incl improving the QA of reps. (I one day called in to CxS to ask what were the hours for RET. I got 3 different answers in the 4 test calls I made. If Rog's reps can't even get something so simple as that correct then there are obvious, systemic problems with the quality of info coming from reps.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessicacha View Post
    I don't have the bundle but my cell bill for june was 2$40cents or something......hmm....
    That might be the tip of the iceberg : )

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmKorp View Post
    . . . There just isn't any pleasing you at all. You should just get two soup cans and a long peice of string and call it a day.
    Actually when we were kids a friend and I tried that -- about three thousand feet of twine and two soup cans (large farm with that much land). As long as the rope was relatively taut it actually worked. That half-mile of twine is hard to handle, though! Admittedly the cans were tin then and aluminum now, so it may not work anymore. We also tried that with about three feet of twine and the requsite cans in a classroom setting and it worked as well.

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