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Thread: Project #Rogers411 - CCTS Complaint re Rogers 411 Fee Hike

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    Arrow Project #Rogers411 - CCTS Complaint re Rogers 411 Fee Hike

    The Twitter-friendly short link to this #Rogers411 page is:
    http://bit.ly/eSiq3W

    Acronym definitions are here:
    s://RogersWatch.wordpress.com/Acronyms

    Text in purple colour is generic text, common to my #Project posts, and possibly what you've read elsewhere so you can skip those parts if you know already the drill.

    ==================================================

    Effective Mar 16, 2011, calls to 411 will jump 25% in cost, from $2 ea to $2.50 ea.

    See:
    rogers.com/411
    ==================================================

    Well well, it looks like our gouging friends at RCI are up to their usual tricks again. This time it's a secretive 25% hike to the cost of using Rog's 411 service (secretive because Rog has not apparently notified any cx's 30+ days in advance, contrary to the CoC).

    What's particularly interesting about this one is that apparently Rog deigned that we lowly cx's aren't worthy of 30 days advance notification of this hike.

    Or to put it another way, it seems quite obvious that Rog is intending to prey upon cx's ignorance of this hiked fee - more bill shock for cx's!

    So what is the crafty, wallet-protecting cx's response? Why it's to file a CCTS complaint of course! (Well, after FIRST giving Rog a chance to tell you to go take a hike.)
    ==================================================

    What's also interesting about this particular hike is that I suspect that Rog will have NO way to keep any cx on the original $2/call fee since Rog is probably changing the global fee setting for 411 calls, and the price of a cx's 411 calls is not a characteristic that is (in Rog's cx-admin system) tied to plans.

    This means that:
    - if CCTS agrees with the premise here
    - and Rog can't leave a cx on the original fee
    - then Rog will have no option but to let a cx [email protected]=$0 ... if that's what the cx wants to do (since those are the only 2 options available in the CoC).

    This unusual situation is caused by the fact that the $ value of the proposed fee hike is variable as it's on a per-use basis (so no static amount of recurring monthly credit can be guaranteed to mitigate all potential economic damage) and there is no corresponding add-on that that Rog can put onto a cx's account to 100% mitigate all possible economic consequences of this hike.

    That leaves only one other option available per the CoC: [email protected]=$0!

    This could be veeeeeery interesting - I hope that in particular those who are under contract and want to [email protected]=$0 will push this.

    Those who are under contract and absolutely do NOT want to [email protected]=$0 might be left with no option but to suck up the fee hike, if Rog offers to let you [email protected]=$0 but you decline that remedy.

    (OTOH maybe a cx has the right, in law, to compel Rog to not change any fee and to nonetheless uphold the original contract - of this I'm not entirely sure tho and the debate arises because of the .)

    But we won't know until we try...
    ==================================================

    Who are the impacted cx's?
    - Every single Rogers cx (all prepaid and postpaid cx's)

    Who has a right to keep the old fee?
    - All postpaid cx's on a contract

    What is the time limit to file a complaint?
    - Ostensibly there is no time limit since Rog has not yet, apparently, informed any cx's about the fee hike so no 30-day countdown has begun
    ==================================================

    Overview of steps:
    - You'll call Rog to seek remedy for this proposed fee hike
    - Rog will tell you to get lost
    - you will then file a complaint with CCTS
    - CCTS will investigate
    - CCTS will, I expect, rule in your favour

    ==================================================

    Step 1:

    You have to contact Rog at least once to try to remedy this before you can file a CCTS complaint, so make that call and expect Rog to deny you your rights. Here are my instructions for how to handle that:

    - Call Rog at 888-764-3771
    - give the rep your account info so they can pull it up
    - ask for a REFERENCE NUMBER for the call at the very beginning, so you don't forget to do this
    - then...

    --- tell the CSR that you 'repudiate' this upcoming 411-fee-hike (a unilateral contract change to a material term of your service), and that
    --- you require one of 2 things be done (Rog gets to choose which, BTW!) to remedy this:
    ------ for the remainder of your Contract, to be left on your original service whereby 411 calls cost $2 ea, or
    ------ to [email protected]=$0 (including porting your number to another carrier if that is your wish)

    - When the rep refuses you these thank them and conclude the call. (You don't need to debate or argue with the rep - just tell them what you want and if they don't promptly agree with one of the 2 proposed remedies you've suggested then that's all that you need to move on to the next step.)

    BTW, if Rog offers to have a manager call you back, or tells you to contact some "Management Office", OoP, or somesuch tell them that you're not willing to do that - you politely but firmly insist that the matter be resolved in that one call that you are making, and not dragged on for hours, days or weeks while Rog waffles and avoids.

    CCTS seems to be acutely aware of the nuisance/tactic of a cx having to make multiple calls to resolve an issue, as they described in their most recent Annual Report, related to Porting hassles (pdf pg 30: "There is no reason for a customer to have to make more than one call, or to pay two providers for the same month’s service"), so my take is: basically, if Rog does not 100% agree to one of your 3 offered remedies in that ONE call, for ANY reason, you can take that as a "No" response from Rog and have thus met the CCTS requirement of having made a "reasonable attempt" to resolve the matter directly with your carrier.



    Step 2:

    File your complaint with the CCTS.

    This time I'm going to suggest that cx's use the webform on the CCTS site since the 'complaint blurb' should fit in the 1,000 char limit.

    First though you'll need some info at hand:
    - Name
    - Province
    - Nature of complaint ("Contract Dispute")
    - Your Account Number or cellie Phone Number
    - Service Address (where you use the service)
    - Billing Address if different from Service Address
    - Contract Start Date
    - Contract End Date

    Second, you'll have to agree that you've read and accept a couple of docs; here they are if you want to read them now:

    CCTS Privacy Policy
    https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/privacy-policy

    CCTS Procedural Code (lays out the CCTS process for handling & escalalting a complaint):
    https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/wp-content...roc_Code_1.pdf


    So now let's fill in the webform, located here:
    https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/complaints/complaint-form

    For the "Details of the contract dispute" try this:
    - Rogers has posted on their website that they intend to raise the cost of 411 calls from $2/ea to $2.50 ea, effective Mar 16 2010
    - This can be seen at rogers.com/411
    - The fee for 411 calls, when I commenced my contract, was $2 ea
    - I consider my 411 service to be a part of my contracted, cellular service since it is inseverable from the contracted service and forms a part of my whole contracted cellular service
    - I do not accept this material, unfavourable change to a term of my contracted, cellular service

    For the "What steps did you take to resolve the matter with your TSP?" try this:
    - On ***DATE I contacted Rogers at 888-ROGERS-1 to ask that:
    ---- I either be left on my original, unchanged contract whereby 411 calls cost me $2 ea, or else
    ---- Rogers lets me cancel WITHOUT paying an Early Termination Fee (and porting my number to another carrier if I so choose)
    - ***OPTIONAL The reference number for this call is ***REFERENCE_NUMBER

    For "What did your TSP (Telecommunications Services Provider) say/do?" try this:
    - ***PERSONALIZE They told me to go pound sand.

    For "What do you consider to be a reasonable resolution to your dispute?" try this:
    - I consider that leaving me on the unchanged, original fee is a reasonable resolution
    - ***OPTIONAL I also consider that letting me cancel my contract WITHOUT paying an Early Termination Fee (and porting my number to another carrier if I so choose) is an alternative, reasonable resolution to this

    And so now you have filed your complaint. Giggidy giggidy doo!


    Step 3:

    What to expect after your complaint is filed....

    Since we're filing the complaint via webform presumably we should get, via email, a near-immediate auto-reply saying they've received our complaint.

    After that hopefully it should take no more than 3-4 business days for CCTS to send you a confirmation that they have ACCEPTED your complaint.

    Once CCTS has all the info and has ACCEPTED your complaint they'll pass it along to Rog and thereafter Rog is then required to:
    a) within 15 calender days (from Rog's receipt of the complaint) contact both you and the CCTS to explain why they think the complaint is without any CCTS-purview, or lawful, merit (in CCTS parlance this is an "Objection"); or

    b) within 30 calender days (from Rog's receipt of the complaint) communicate to both the cx and to CCTS that the matter remains "Unresolved"; or

    c) within 30 calender days (from Rog's receipt of the complaint) communicate to both the cx and to CCTS that the matter is now "Resolved" to the satisfaction of both Rog and the cx.

    If Rog "Objects" to the complaint we'll see what CCTS has to say, based on the reasons that Rog provides, and cross that bridge when we get there.

    If Rog "Resolves" the complaint to your satisfaction then great ... that's all you wanted in the first place.

    If Rog doesn't resolve the complaint to your satisfaction then we'll follow that through as necessary, based on Rog's response - I'll be keeping an eye on things hopefully (time permitting).



    Step 4:

    The aftermath...

    This will be an interesting issue to see how Rogers and CCTS handle it ... especially for those who seek [email protected]=$0.

    If people who do submit a complaint about this might post their feedback about when they submitted, when/if CCTS accepted the complaint, etc, it'll probably be both instructive and motivational for others.

    Thanks for reading folks and good luck to us all!

    #Rogers411
    Last edited by BellVictim; 02-16-2011 at 04:35 PM. Reason: add ShortLink URL

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    Calls to 411 aren't included in plans, neither are they included in features... I don't get how CCTS could possibly come to the decision that Rogers isn't allowed to raise the price for it.

    That said, an easy fix for Rogers would just be to offer to credit the .50 on future 411 calls. *shrugs*

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    Quote Originally Posted by iridescence View Post
    Calls to 411 aren't included in plans
    Sure they are.

    I signed up for a cellie plan (Contract), that includes access to 411 at $2/call. Rog wants to hike the cost of this feature of my cellie Contract. I cannot sever the 411 from my current Contract (service) and replace it with another - so Rog has me over a barrel - and I'm not likin' it!

    neither are they included in features...
    It sure is a feature of my cell service, the service that I've contracted with Rog for the provisioning thereof.

    I don't get how CCTS could possibly come to the decision that Rogers isn't allowed to raise the price for it.
    C
    O
    N
    T
    R
    A
    C
    T.

    That said, an easy fix for Rogers would just be to offer to credit the .50 on future 411 calls. *shrugs*
    Is there a way this can be done both automatically and reliably by the billing system or are you suggesting that a cx must check their bill for any 411 (over-)charges and then call in, wait, and haggle with rep for $.50 * number_of_411_calls?

    IMO, that 'manual' remedy to overcharges is a totally unreasonable burden to place upon cx's and totally unacceptable - the onus is on Rog to bill me 100% correctly (according to the Contract) each and every month.

    Anyway, might you let me know if you're aware of any way this fee hike can be mitigated via an automated billing process?

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    I wonder if I can just add this to my SMS complaint which they still have no responded to since the first week of Feb. I got the auto confirm email but thats it, no calls no emails nothing.

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    Someone please report whether they're able to get out of their contract. I'm always looking for a way lol

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    Carry a new phone book in the vehicle like I do. Or, use 411.ca like I do for other cities. I can't remember the last time I called 411.
    Un-Rogered, and getting better 'value'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bongdw View Post
    Someone please report whether they're able to get out of their contract. I'm always looking for a way lol
    So why not try?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BellVictim View Post

    Anyway, might you let me know if you're aware of any way this fee hike can be mitigated via an automated billing process?
    No. And there's nothing in the TOS about whether or not Rogers has to do this automatically, I might point out. :P (ETA: Unless they decided to hard code it into price plans created before a certain date, but that's not something they can do on an individual basis, so not likely.)

    If the CCTS thinks that 411 is a service that should be built into price plans at a certain price while the customer is on contract... *shrug* Their decision, I suppose, though I don't regard it an essential part of cellphone service the way that sms, data and voice are. It's an extra service. Personally, I think that when there are so many alternatives out there, it's no wonder that carriers want to charge so much for access to it. I think the last time I used 411 was 5 years ago.

    But I might as well be honest and say that other than a) changes to local calling areas b) rate plan hikes and c) feature hikes, I can't see a situation where I'd call CCTS. I'm actually surprised Canadian carriers haven't done what the US carriers have done, which is to make it more explicit in their TOS that features on contract are the ones that would mean a breach of TOS. As in, price plans, data plans, etc. All other features are pay per use according to US carriers, so they can be changed at any point.

    Also, no need to spell out 'contract' as though I cannot read. You and I just have differing views.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BellVictim View Post
    So why not try?
    I don't have hours upon hours, nor the patience, to invest in dealing with Rogers.

    I know that my online persona is nothing but pure cynicism but in real life I'm actually as patient as a monk. Dealing with Rogers is infuriating though as you need to coach and mentor the reps on how to do things, and they still mess it up. Their support staff and management is just as bad. I really don't know if they do this purposely or if there's something in the water at the Rogers offices.

    If someone else has success I can definitely give it a shot though.

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    BV, does your day only consist of finding things to complain and rebel against? FFS...


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bongdw View Post
    I don't have hours upon hours, nor the patience, to invest in dealing with Rogers.
    Myself, I would hope that aside from the time to file the complaint that it doesn't eat up much other - let the CCTS be the pitbull and deal with the minutiae of Rog.

    If someone else has success I can definitely give it a shot though.
    I can understand the hanging back, to see if this complaint bears the desired fruit ... though if everybody does then no fruit will appear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ircu View Post
    I wonder if I can just add this to my SMS complaint which they still have no responded to since the first week of Feb. I got the auto confirm email but thats it, no calls no emails nothing.
    I'd call them and ask what's up - I recall at least one other person who has filed & been accepted in the interim - maybe yours got lost?

    I wouldn't add it to the SMS complaint - it's slow down & complicate the two very separate issues IMO.

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    Look, at day's end, if you don't want to pay $2.50 for 411, don't use it. This is a no brainer. There are other means as I have pointed out above. Even a dumb phone on WAP can get 411.ca.

    This is a tempest in a teapot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGY Guy View Post
    Look, at day's end, if you don't want to pay $2.50 for 411, don't use it. This is a no brainer. There are other means as I have pointed out above. Even a dumb phone on WAP can get 411.ca.

    This is a tempest in a teapot.
    If you don't like the topic of the thread then don't open it and troll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ircu View Post
    If you don't like the topic of the thread then don't open it and troll.
    CGY Guy is entitled to his opinion. He wasn't trolling, he was giving his opinion. He is a long time valued member of the community and doesn't need to be told by a 1 monther how to conduct himself. However, you yourself are also entitled to your opinion but your opinion is "more off topic" than anything CGY Guy has posted....just my opinion of course.

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