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Thread: The GooMoto Thread! Where does Moto go now that it will be part of Google?

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    The GooMoto Thread! Where does Moto go now that it will be part of Google?

    I figure this is good for Moto fans in general, but not too sure what is means for the broader Android community. At least we now know Moto probably won't be allowed to go bankrupt since they had never shown strong signs of returning to profitability.

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    They need to fire Sanjay Jha. That guy is useless and has done nothing for the company since the OG Droid.

    I say start at the top and get rid of him. He has a drug problem or is just plain clueless.

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    *not relevant for my point*

    Anyway, I'm glad it happened and they need to make some changes and give Sanjay the ax. That guy can't find his butt with both hands.
    Last edited by Slaughtrr; 08-15-2011 at 05:41 PM.

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    I think this is all a bit extreme. I don't believe Sanjay is the brightest feller when it comes to financials as I believe he came from a more technical background at Qualcomm if I am not mistaken. If google routes the Moto financial team and takes it over I think that would be a good start. See if the company is viable without some restructuring and go from there. It seems Sanjay came in and figured he could help them get lots of new popular devices onto the market and have enough sales success he wouldn't have to concern himself with the financial viability of the company as that would work itself out with improved sales performance. I think things were just too competitive and they were too slow at getting into carriers other than VZW with device wins.

    I doubt Sanjay will go as Google values technical leaders like him, but there is a good chance they will do some variety of restructuring of Motorola if they don't think they will ever be anything other than a money pit without it. Or I would hope they would. It's obvious why this has hurt the Googs stock rather than help it. They haven't really explained the plan too well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ark6 View Post
    1) If MS gives every OEM the deal that they gave Nokia, then it will destroy the 'unified OS' that ms intended. MS gave Nokia that privilege so that they can integrate their expertise (i.e. Ovi maps) to the whole ecosystem. That, and increase WP7 penetration.

    2) If anything there will be more nexus devices coming out more often. Think about it, what incentive does Google have to make Moto the exclusive hardware provider? It will also alienate all the manufacturers that made Android a success in the first place if they did a stunt like that.
    1) Depending on how much they let Nokia customize I am guessing just letting Nokia do it could destroy the 'Uninfied OS' concept alone. So I doubt they are allowing anything too huge other than your suggestion of Ovi maps. I really don't know why they wouldn't let others integrate their custom apps or widgets they want to use to differentiate so long as it doesn't distract from the WP7 and can be applied to the whole ecosystem for those interested. Pretty sure though from the mass of articles through the day today that there are now industry insiders admitting a lot of Moto competitors may shift focus to WP7 regardless. Also sounds like Google pounced on Moto to preempt MS from doing it. So this would tend to suggest Google didn't maybe put a lot of thought into how they would integrate them yet or if they would. It was more to make sure MS didn't get Moto's patents. Really tough to say how this will all pan out, but I don't think any of it was well planned.

    2)I don't think google would do this so much as these partners shift focus away from Google and Android. As I said above it seems industry insiders are already admitting as much about Moto Android competitors shifting focus to WM7. HTC is paying MS for Android already anyhow and I am guessing if they just ditched them they would get much more favorable terms with MS by being a MS devotee again as they used to be. My guess is that Samsung would be MUCH more successful getting Apple smoothed over if they switched focus to MS as WM7 and it's tiles are A LOT harder for Apple to sell as a iOS hack compared to android with TouchWiz. Not sure on LG, but they aren't much better off than Moto was, so they could be acquired soon also.

    Basically anything could happen, but don't be surprised if Google is forced into taking Moto and becoming an overall device vendor that doesn't have their OS used a whole lot elsewhere. I am sure LG, HTC and Samsung will push Android devices for awhile, but wouldn't be surprised if their premium devices slowly switch to WP7 or WP8 or whatever in the coming years rather than being Android as they are now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughtrr View Post
    Ark I always love to read what you have to say. You're very honest and unbiased but I will have to disagree with your second point. I think there is a huge incentive for Google to stay exclusive to Moto for their Nexus handsets.

    I think it gives them a chance to build the brand called Nexus. It will cut down on confusion for the average consumer and it will solidify brand recognition. For instance if I ask you to think of bleach. You probably go right to Clorox. That name and image of the bottle is burned into us. Same thing with the iPhone. You instantly recognize the name and likeness.

    Moto/Google have a chance to make the Nexus a recognizable brand name. "Have you seen the new Nexus" will invoke the image of a new Motorola phone rather than a blank stare. The Nexus brand hasn't caught on like I think they thought it would but I think now if they stick to one manufacturer it has that chance.

    Right now their is no brand recognition. That's very important with any product. Just my thoughts on the matter.
    Well by looking at things that way, you are completely forgetting that Google is not looking for sheer volume when they release the latest nexus device. If they wanted to do that, they could have made the Droid the nexus phone to start with. And if Google did make nexus devices strictly Moto devices, it would kill a lot of incentive for OEMs to even make an android device.

    And remember how Winston said earlier in the bionic thread that the only reason that manufacturers build nexus devices is to get early access to the latest android build? Why would Moto bother if they get access anyway?

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    There is a lot of speculation no one is being real honest about all the actual reason this deal is being made. One big question is why it is believed Moto's patents are so valuable when they were really failing pretty bad with them in defending themselves against Microsoft. I guess the fact so many of their patents are shared industry standard sorta stuff makes them very hard to use as defensive and counter suit stuff. It really is almost like this was a move to protect and preserve Moto and ensure they didn't lose some big patent cases and really screw up the Android patent battle in general. They may have been spending a lot less on lawyer and such and relying on their patents instead and this was about to fail so Google stepped in. I guess there was a possible decision on the Microsoft suit coming in a few weeks and this may be used to somehow delay that.

    Basically it may be related to patents as they say, but it may not be because of how strong Moto's patents are in defending the sorts of claims MS and Apple are making so much as neither MS or Apple have had the ballz to sue Google directly and were about to get big bad enforceable decision against Android through the Moto cases, since Moto wasn't just going to settle. Google has been saying they were going to get more involved in this patent war and I guess rather than trying to step into some of these cases voluntarily somehow from the outside since they have never been attacked directly other than by Oracle, they decided to just buy Moto who was about to lose a big case. I think watching the Motorola patent cases and seeing what role google takes in helping try to turn the tables in those will be the best place to look and see why this deal was really made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasaero View Post
    There is a lot of speculation no one is being real honest about all the actual reason this deal is being made. One big question is why it is believed Moto's patents are so valuable when they were really failing pretty bad with them in defending themselves against Microsoft. I guess the fact so many of their patents are shared industry standard sorta stuff makes them very hard to use as defensive and counter suit stuff. It really is almost like this was a move to protect and preserve Moto and ensure they didn't lose some big patent cases and really screw up the Android patent battle in general. They may have been spending a lot less on lawyer and such and relying on their patents instead and this was about to fail so Google stepped in. I guess there was a possible decision on the Microsoft suit coming in a few weeks and this may be used to somehow delay that.

    Basically it may be related to patents as they say, but it may not be because of how strong Moto's patents are in defending the sorts of claims MS and Apple are making so much as neither MS or Apple have had the ballz to sue Google directly and were about to get big bad enforceable decision against Android through the Moto cases, since Moto wasn't just going to settle. Google has been saying they were going to get more involved in this patent war and I guess rather than trying to step into some of these cases voluntarily somehow from the outside since they have never been attacked directly other than by Oracle, they decided to just buy Moto who was about to lose a big case. I think watching the Motorola patent cases and seeing what role google takes in helping try to turn the tables in those will be the best place to look and see why this deal was really made.
    As I started reading your post, I was about to blast you and then you had to go on and make some really good points.

    I am not sure if you realize just how much money is required to bring a patent infringement law suit, but it starts at about a million and with these players involved figure "millions" per patent. I don't think Motorola was really in the position to start bringing multiple patent infringement lawsuits against multiple companies with resources like Microsoft and Apple.

    I don't have the time to review Motorola's patent portfolio (17,000 granted + 7.500 pending) to determine how strong they are for use against MS and Apple, but I have faith that Google's attorneys have looked at them and know what they are doing.

    You mentioned that Google said they were going to get more involved in the patent disputes and that maybe part of buying Motorola might be so they didn't have to try to enter into "as an outsider". This is a very astute point because if some of these Motorola patents are as strong as I think they might be Google will now(obviously when the sale is final) have "standing" to sue anyone they want directly.

    I also want to add that although I think we will eventually see some added benefits on the hardware and product side of things, that IMHO Google is stepping up to the plate and is ready to do battle to protect and advance the Android platform as a whole and it's multi-billion dollar agenda that the future of Android represents for them.

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    You are undervaluing Motorola's patents, they are really strong. Best bet is Apple is suing Motorola to go for cross licensing agreements because in the mobile space they are weak compared to Motorola in patents (and with LTE it will not get better for Apple).
    With Microsoft it is more interesting because Motorola can't sue back over patents since Microsoft isn't making a phone. Of course there are other options and that battle is far from over.

    The patent wars are going to get really interesting, and in a war the guy with the biggest guns usually wins. Motorola has some of the biggest guns in the industry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbh2 View Post
    As I started reading your post, I was about to blast you and then you had to go on and make some really good points.

    I am not sure if you realize just how much money is required to bring a patent infringement law suit, but it starts at about a million and with these players involved figure "millions" per patent. I don't think Motorola was really in the position to start bringing multiple patent infringement lawsuits against multiple companies with resources like Microsoft and Apple.

    I don't have the time to review Motorola's patent portfolio (17,000 granted + 7.500 pending) to determine how strong they are for use against MS and Apple, but I have faith that Google's attorneys have looked at them and know what they are doing.

    You mentioned that Google said they were going to get more involved in the patent disputes and that maybe part of buying Motorola might be so they didn't have to try to enter into "as an outsider". This is a very astute point because if some of these Motorola patents are as strong as I think they might be Google will now(obviously when the sale is final) have "standing" to sue anyone they want directly.

    I also want to add that although I think we will eventually see some added benefits on the hardware and product side of things, that IMHO Google is stepping up to the plate and is ready to do battle to protect and advance the Android platform as a whole and it's multi-billion dollar agenda that the future of Android represents for them.
    BTW, here is the blogger that got my head running in this direction.

    http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011...ak-up-fee.html

    I am aware of the cost to go after patents and actually have an inkling that if you are Moto who has mostly FRAND-encumbered patents acquired through years and years of helping develop cell tech to industry standards it becomes even more expensive to hire lawyers to sort out unencumbered and encumbered but still useful patents to use against folks like Apple and MS. My guess is that Moto has a very large majority of the encumbered variety patents, but with so many is not lacking on unencumbered. Deciding how to approach a counter suit would be quite tricky though as my guess is that Apple has very limited use of stuff that isn't somehow tied to FRAND ones and MS as a mostly software company may be very hard to counter in general with mostly hardware patents. There is a chance though something related to XBox or a mouse or keyboard or something might infringe somewhere.

    It's really all quite ridiculous in the end as my opinion is that software should only fall under copyright law. This would mean that so long as Google or Moto never did any copy and paste of Apple or Google code they would be good to go. Shoot, even the UI look and feel interface stuff that Apple tries to patent should only be covered by copyright or trademark law.

    I kind of understand how some of it could be patented, but I find far to much of it is not at all what I would call innovative or original in a way a patent should be. There seems to be far to patents that just exist with the first company to get something through the process that was an idea and goal of development industry wide for quite a while. And it become really silly with software as MS has patented all sorts of common high level software related things that had been common in the industry for decades, but never patented by anyone. So now MS has all sorts of power to screw with anyone that uses any software not developed by MS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ark6 View Post
    Well by looking at things that way, you are completely forgetting that Google is not looking for sheer volume when they release the latest nexus device. If they wanted to do that, they could have made the Droid the nexus phone to start with. And if Google did make nexus devices strictly Moto devices, it would kill a lot of incentive for OEMs to even make an android device.

    And remember how Winston said earlier in the bionic thread that the only reason that manufacturers build nexus devices is to get early access to the latest android build? Why would Moto bother if they get access anyway?
    I don't know I think there is a huge incentive for other OEMS to still manufacter handsets. They all like to put their UI's on them adding more functionality while the Nexus is a pure Android experience phone. Same market but different if that makes any sense. Some folks love the UI's while others don't know a custom UI from stock AOSP. I personally think the Nexus brand would benefit from being made by only one manufacturer. I think Google cares more about the Nexus than the manufacturers do. I don't think the Nexus line is an incredible money maker for HTC or Samsung or is it? I just don't see a huge demand for the Nexus right now and perhaps with some consistant name recognition that could bolster some sales and gain the Nexus some momentum in the market place.

    i'm just throwing it out there.

    i haven't been keeping up with things but isn't/wasn't there a rumor of a mass exodus away from Android from the manufactures. Samsung, HTC etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughtrr View Post
    i haven't been keeping up with things but isn't/wasn't there a rumor of a mass exodus away from Android from the manufactures. Samsung, HTC etc?
    And defect to what? Windows phone that Nokia gets to call the shots, no UI customizing, and you HAVE to use qualcomm silicon? If anything WP7 is just as bad of a choice as the Google/Motorola deal.

    And on a last note, you think some Blur elements will make it to stock android? LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ark6 View Post

    And on a last note, you think some Blur elements will make it to stock android? LOL
    LMFAO!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ark6 View Post
    ...And on a last note, you think some Blur elements will make it to stock android? LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughtrr View Post
    LMFAO!!!
    Seems laughable, but the truth is the UI is the major area where iOS is superior to Android. If Google is serious about going head-to-head with Apple, they need to address this weakness. Depending on independent hardware manufacturers has resulted in a cacophony of UI approaches with none making a serious dent in the Apple lead. Unfortunately, Moto's Blur is pretty unimaginative as UI's go, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Google assign some serious talent to developing a slick UI for the Moto platform.

    I hope they kill all the uninstallable bloatware. If they do that, I can live with Blur.
    Tom

    "Fundamentally, there are only two ways of coordinating the economic activities of millions. One is central direction involving the use of coercion - the technique of the army and of the modern totalitarian state. The other is voluntary cooperation of individuals - the technique of the marketplace."
    -- Milton Friedman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
    Seems laughable, but the truth is the UI is the major area where iOS is superior to Android. If Google is serious about going head-to-head with Apple, they need to address this weakness. Depending on independent hardware manufacturers has resulted in a cacophony of UI approaches with none making a serious dent in the Apple lead. Unfortunately, Moto's Blur is pretty unimaginative as UI's go, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Google assign some serious talent to developing a slick UI for the Moto platform.

    I hope they kill all the uninstallable bloatware. If they do that, I can live with Blur.
    Saying that Blur is unimaginative is a personal opinion. Some people really like it. I personally do not like it at all and agree with you. The newest version is a HUGE step up in my opinion but still lacks polish and a "wow" factor.

    I would love to see Moto do a complete overhaul on Blur and come out with something dazzling. I just don't know though. Blur almost seems like an after thought.

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