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Thread: The GooMoto Thread! Where does Moto go now that it will be part of Google?

  1. #46
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    Gotta agree about liking the custom UI's over stock Android.

    Something simple like T9 dialing is one lil example. Its not in ICS or isnt in there yet. Its in custom UI's. Cant remember if T9 was in the Froyo update for the Droid 1. And Samsung and HTC were both doing acceleration long before Google and stock Android. In the browsers on their phones too. Thats why Sense UI phones were always considered the smoothest of all Android phones when the Incredible 1 launched.

    Honestly...the custom UI''s dont get enough credit for what they do good vs stock Android. I've been saying this since the GB update to the Droid X1 and Sense UI on the Incredible.

    jasaero....you would be surprised how LITTLE the majority of customers, the general public know about phone reception and specific phones. Most, the majority will blame it on the carrier or the area they are in. Unless they actually compare phones from different manufactures they dont really know.

    Bell n whistles, buzz words gets sales...not so much functionality. My kids mother is very non techy...and the only reason she knows about Moto and reception is because of me and my phones experiences, using phones by Moto and other manufactures. You could say phone reception with specific phones might be about as well known as bootloaders to the general public. I didnt really know until 2008...and I've been using cellphones since 1999.

    Although...enough complaints and trying other phones being posted in forums is educating more people. But how many people actually join a forum, or even know it exists. Or how many professional reviewers at different sites even mention phone reception. Its all lumped under call quality. Phone reception in weak areas is probably never covered in reviews.

    Even then..to some ppl it wont matter, they will wait for an update or go thru 10 exchanges. Cuz ppl like and want what they like n want...no matter what issues they come across.

  2. #47
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    Perhaps if those more-than-skin-deep manufacturer skins didn't postpone my access to the newest Android version by months and months over and over again I'd be more charitably objective.

    Give me the choice -- is what I'm saying. If your overlay UI is as good as all that, then maybe I'll be anxiously awaiting it, too, just like so many folks are right now waiting for ICS because of it. But let me decide that for myself. If you don't want to allow real comparison by your customers your claims of excellence lose much of their force.

    Google could just tell Moto to release every new smartphone with the latest stock Android version. Offer the improvements as an OTA when they're ready. If those improvements are really 'all that' people will be clamoring for them just like they're clamoring for ICS now.

    Perspective instantiates reality.
    ( By DX w/HoFo app. )
    Last edited by TC_Mits; 03-06-2012 at 04:08 AM.
    Learning Android root on my SGSIII while waiting for Ubuntu Phone OS.

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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    Perhaps if those more-than-skin-deep manufacturer skins didn't postpone my access to the newest Android version by months and months over and over again I'd be more charitably objective.
    Most of the delays are manufacturer testing than carrier testing. I am assuming you don't want them to test less do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    Give me the choice -- is what I'm saying. If your overlay UI is as good as all that, then maybe I'll be anxiously awaiting it, too, just like so many folks are right now waiting for ICS because of it. But let me decide that for myself. If you don't want to allow real comparison by your customers your claims of excellence lose much of their force.

    Google could just tell Moto to release every new smartphone with the latest stock Android version. Offer the improvements as an OTA when they're ready. If those improvements are really 'all that' people will be clamoring for them just like they're clamoring for ICS now.
    Actually few people are clamoring for ICS. Sure on the forums it is a majority, but the general public could care less. The only reason most people ever upgrade their software is that it is free, if it cost any money at all most people wouldn't bother (look at PCs).

    And again, if you want a more stock looking experience with the UI use a launcher. You really expect the manufacturers to first port the stock build, than validate it, than test it, than submit it for testing... only to do that all again with their own version? I am open to reasonable requests, but remember these upgrades are free.
    Especially since that for the 95% that don't know the difference, the manufacturers want to release a solid upgrade with their enhancements over the air. The don't want confusion.

    An idea that had a better chance, that manufacturers release a stock build on their websites after the OTA is done. Than people could download it and load it themselves, but before the OTA update all the resources will be tied up there first. Of course the issue than is that the upgrade would be even later, so maybe just using a launcher that looks like stock ICS would be better.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Most of the delays are manufacturer testing than carrier testing. I am assuming you don't want them to test less do you?



    Actually few people are clamoring for ICS. Sure on the forums it is a majority, but the general public could care less. The only reason most people ever upgrade their software is that it is free, if it cost any money at all most people wouldn't bother (look at PCs).

    And again, if you want a more stock looking experience with the UI use a launcher. You really expect the manufacturers to first port the stock build, than validate it, than test it, than submit it for testing... only to do that all again with their own version? I am open to reasonable requests, but remember these upgrades are free.
    Especially since that for the 95% that don't know the difference, the manufacturers want to release a solid upgrade with their enhancements over the air. The don't want confusion.

    An idea that had a better chance, that manufacturers release a stock build on their websites after the OTA is done. Than people could download it and load it themselves, but before the OTA update all the resources will be tied up there first. Of course the issue than is that the upgrade would be even later, so maybe just using a launcher that looks like stock ICS would be better.
    Do unlockable bootloaders and get new working proprietary files for custom builds of latest google code drops out as fast as possible and take however much time or support whatever versions of android officially you want and I will be 100% happy. With 700mhz spectrum devices you DO NOT have to let VZW dictate how you support users of devices compatible with their network. Also make them useable on GSM networks unlocked also as that is supposed to be 100% supported if you choose per the spectrum rules.

    And if you REALLY want enthusiast sorts bragging about Motorola do proprietary file releases for even really old popular devices when new versions of Android hit. I and probably the rest of the 5% you speak of wouldn't care if they ever officially updated any devices if they were doing this. And from what you are saying 95% of the rest wouldn't either. So all that would need to happen then is a release build and maybe a bug fix build or two over the life of the device and proprietary only releases for those interested in subsequent Android versions.

  5. #50
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    Seriously, I wonder if you think sometimes before you write. You must not, which explains why your posts are so long.


    Quote Originally Posted by jasaero View Post
    This I find very concerning. This is basically an admittance that Motorola is incapable of making a more desirable device than the rest of the players out there if they don't have their radio advantages.
    Yeah, because all the other manufacturers will rush to make their advantages public. Do you really believe what you are posting?
    Seriously, I am worried about you. You wrote that Motorola may be incapable of making a more desirable device if they don't have their radio advantage. What? Isn't the radio advantage one of the items that makes it a more desirable device?
    What you are saying is that a company should take their advantages, give them to their competition, than hope they can make their products prettier?


    Quote Originally Posted by jasaero View Post
    As for the rest of what you said on blur type development. That's part of my problem with it all. I wish it were NOT such low level tweaking so that updates could be faster. I would be MUCH happier with very straight forward skins that only did skinning type things and didn't add feature sets that require framework changes and new API's and the like.
    Maybe not you, but you are speaking from the view point of >5% of the market.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasaero View Post
    And I wasn't talking about making upgrades more like apps. I was talking about making the Motorola software experience more like apps so that the Kernel and framework and lower level system stuff was the ONLY thing that needed to be upgraded.
    That would work except 90% of the stuff Motorola (and HTC and Samsung) does is in the framework. BTW, of those improvement you probably notice maybe 20-30% of them. They are to make your phone work better, if you saw them than someone didn't do a good job.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasaero View Post
    Doesn't really matter though as blur really does want to be way more than a skin.
    Bookmark this for the future. It really isn't Blur anymore, and it isn't a skin. Now just wait and see.
    (BTW, you guys should have seen the original Blur. Ha. It was never released, actually you can almost see it though. Look at the new Windows phones.)

    Quote Originally Posted by jasaero View Post
    As for carrier testing, that is something I would like to see ALL OEM's pressure carriers over more. I would like to see ALL OEMs dictate devices and software to the the carriers more and also MORE unlocked and open devices that aren't even marketed through the carrier AT ALL, but are compatible with the carriers network as was the idea behind a lot of the 700mhz spectrum rules.
    Verizon ran a $125M promotion campaign for Droid RAZR. How many manufacturers are going to want to do that? If Verizon doesn't have control, they won't run the ads.
    And Google tried the direct sales model, massive failure.

    Ah, the 700MHz spectrum rules. The holy grail to the hackers. Yeah, those rules are so weak they mean nothing. Before drinking that kool-aid, look and see what it is you are drinking.
    Personally I like the idea of open devices that can move from carrier to carrier. Hell all the OEMs do to some degree (which should give you pause). Make a phone that can be used on all the carriers and not have to subject yourself to months of carrier testing? Release phones when you want, not when the carrier has the correct shelf space.
    Buttttt....... no carrier store support or ad support. No carrier first level trouble shooting (most returns are stupid that are easily handled by the carrier). And OEMs free to release phones that kill the network (looking at you Apple and your poor radio design that uses way more bandwidth than necessary).

    Sure the carriers seem like the devils at times, but remember there are things they do that really benefit their customers.

  6. #51
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    As for unlocked bootloaders, can't help you there. I think a tool should be released to unlock the bootloaders. Actually I like a full system set up. Have a tool that unlocks the bootloader and at the same time burns an OTP bit. Simple, it is an unlocked device with zero warranty. Everyone should be happy. Than it is a choice, you can unlock it but when you do, you lose the ability to exchange it or return it.

    I have heard the counter arguments, and they center heavily on mobile banking and streaming HD content. I can't discuss how this works, but the points are valid. We will see how valid if someone figures out how to access your phone and steal all your money. Or HD streaming is rejected from your type of phone. Until than though, they are arguments about maybes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Seriously, I wonder if you think sometimes before you write. You must not, which explains why your posts are so long.
    You miss my points on open hardware of Moto by google all together. This wouldn't be for Motorola so much as Google. It would force extreme competition, high grade and spec level massive commoditization of the hardware that RUNs Android! Google wouldn't care if Motorola was selling lots of devices so long as there were making 100% certain devices that ran Android were BETTER than devices that DID NOT! It may not be 100% opening of Motorola hardware secrets so much as protected handing off of Motorola IP and design know how to Android producers so long as they only used the know how on Android devices. It would be more to strengthen the overall position of devices running Android. And really there would be no reason to not also allow Motorola to still compete in that space and do R&D and such to help retain Android devices position in the market. It might hurt Motorola sales a bit, but could strengthen Android as a whole to allow it to dominate the market in a more complete way sorta like Window's has on the PC side of things for so many years since windows compatible hardware was able to become more of a commodity than any other computer hardware. It wasn't good for a lot of PC hardware peeps, but it was VERY good for Microsoft.

    The first smartphone OS to get extreme commodity priced hardware that is just as powerful as more proprietary smartphone setup will win the day in the end just like Windows won in this way in the PC arena.

    The Unlocking vs security stuff I find all to be quite to have obvious answers. From the mobile banking perspective I say any smartphone is more secure than my wallet full of cash and checks OR my credit cards even. If you have ANY lock at all it is already better than either of those even if you don't notice it missing right away. Chances are though MOST will ALWAYS miss a smartphone WAY faster than they miss some check or cash or plastic or even their whole wallet. We just use our smartphones so much more than anything related to the wallet that we will tend to notice it missing quicker and even with CRAP security it's more secure than ANYTHING in your wallet.

    On HD streaming I am of the opinion hardware and software peeps should be putting EXTREME pressure for what has happened with music in that it is streamed and sold mostly unprotected and finally generating revenue comparable to physical media because of it. For now I will buy physical media and rip it to a home server and get live stuff from a home TV antenna through my server. Not going to worry about netflix HD until they convince the content peeps to get off their high horses on the levels of security required. Some stuff is already available in HD without extreme security on netflix for the PC FINALLY. Movie peeps are slow in this regard, but I think hardware OEMs and consumers should stand up and refuse to bother with the extreme secure HD versions until they just allow them to go out in a less secure and easier to support sorta way. They are treating us all like we want to steal something we are paying to watch the one and only time we will probably ever be interested in watching it which is just ridiculous.

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    And then there is this! This is an obvious little issue related to a hard built link in a launcher, but with all the talk of extreme low level Framework and other system mods with special API's and the like I really grow less and less interested in nonStock Android as it just sounds like massive complication for developers going forward. Seemingly even if Google themselves are the developer and the device OEM is a Google subsidiary.

    http://www.droid-life.com/2012/03/07...-market-links/

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasaero View Post
    And then there is this! This is an obvious little issue related to a hard built link in a launcher, but with all the talk of extreme low level Framework and other system mods with special API's and the like I really grow less and less interested in nonStock Android as it just sounds like massive complication for developers going forward. Seemingly even if Google themselves are the developer and the device OEM is a Google subsidiary.

    http://www.droid-life.com/2012/03/07...-market-links/

    Yea....there is a lil more to it than it breaks on Motorola phones tho IMO. I posted what I went thru in that article. Some folks even mentioned issues on a....Nexus.....

    My issue was I didnt have a connection in the middle of it trying to update, I hit the home screen, turned on wifi, when I came back mine was broke and I had Play Store on my phone. I also posted how I fixed it, didnt require rooting either. Some other folks already knew about the fix too. I saw their post too late.

    I think ...like with most issues....ppl need a lil more info other than "it wont install on my phone" or "this is broke now" to get to the real problem(s).

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jroc74 View Post
    Yea....there is a lil more to it than it breaks on Motorola phones tho IMO. I posted what I went thru in that article. Some folks even mentioned issues on a....Nexus.....

    My issue was I didnt have a connection in the middle of it trying to update, I hit the home screen, turned on wifi, when I came back mine was broke and I had Play Store on my phone. I also posted how I fixed it, didnt require rooting either. Some other folks already knew about the fix too. I saw their post too late.

    I think ...like with most issues....ppl need a lil more info other than "it wont install on my phone" or "this is broke now" to get to the real problem(s).
    Yeah. This seems to be a very minor silly little issue really. I am just not a fan of the ideas of vast customization to the framework and adding of API's and such. I understand why that is required with some of the Motorola customization also as it goes deep into system apps and things like the status pull down and such that end up requiring more than can be done easily with apps and such. It seems very unlikely though that vast amounts of this effort is to "FIX" the AOSP code they are working from though as seems to get suggested. I could believe this if developers that focus on very basically minimal feature difference mostly pure vanilla AOSP builds didn't work pretty darn well. And some of the devs do a tiered release where they start with a mostly stock AOSP tree they build from just to get things out as the first code hits and then merge new content in as other devs get to modding the stock code.

    These build often have vastly incompatible frameworks and such from bone stock or even each other and things that worked on AOSP can get broken as things progress. So I do have an idea what is going on, but the stock AOSP stuff that works VERY well tends to be out pretty quick and work very well as soon as proprietary drivers for camera and radios and such on these newest versions of android hit. They are more boring and less feature filled as is stock android, but even that is WAY better than the very basic nature of the iOS system and there is probably value in that simpler setup for OEMs in my humble opinion. It would be very nice though if devs of apps could move their focus to the latest version of android quickly and have fewer versions the linger around out there for more and more time each new Android release.

    I probably wouldn't have any issue with the slow movement to ICS if Motorola and other OEMs were just saying they like ICS and find it has a lot to offer, but they would rather wait for a more matured version of the 4.X system that has skipped subsequent 2.X and 3.X numbering scheme for reasons that probably do suggest it's not yet and easy setup to put lots of effort into various device releases on. It makes sense that Asus is one of the first out the door as they started with 3.X and only had two devices really to move to 4.X. Everyone else though is making it sound like they are "hard" at work on getting things over to 4.0.X and that it will be an eternity until they are done. Oh and no new devices will bother with ICS anytime soon. I would be less critical if they just said they are working on "OUR" 4.X system for all our devices, but may not release upgrades or devices with it until ICS is something other than 4.0.X or even something other than ICS. Not even sure I respect the effort in general anymore though as I am not yet that convinced their "FIXING" really does fix anything or help with differentiation much. ONLY feature I appreciate from a custom OEM UI is the status pull down toggles that were copied from and improved upon the ones in TouchWiz.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Seriously, I wonder if you think sometimes before you write. You must not, which explains why your posts are so long.
    Why would otherwise respectable HoFo graybeards so readily turn ad hominem?

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Yeah, because all the other manufacturers will rush to make their advantages public. Do you really believe what you are posting?
    Seriously, I am worried about you. You wrote that Motorola may be incapable of making a more desirable device if they don't have their radio advantage. What? Isn't the radio advantage one of the items that makes it a more desirable device?
    Circular reasoning. And, who would benefit even more than Moto's competitors from the suggestions?

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    What you are saying is that a company should take their advantages, give them to their competition, than hope they can make their products prettier?
    'Prettier"? This kind of hyperbolic misquote is another frequent ploy. If the reader can think a little -- it's weak.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Maybe not you, but you are speaking from the view point of >5% of the market.
    Ah. But the public can't think. Good thing.

    Old man Syms is rolling in his grave. He was proud of his product and wanted it understood:
    "An educated consumer is our best customer."

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    That would work except 90% of the stuff Motorola (and HTC and Samsung) does is in the framework. BTW, of those improvement you probably notice maybe 20-30% of them. They are to make your phone work better, if you saw them than someone didn't do a good job.
    Hmmm. Sounds a lot like a description of the latest vzw incarnation of Carrier IQ.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Bookmark this for the future. It really isn't Blur anymore, and it isn't a skin. Now just wait and see.
    (BTW, you guys should have seen the original Blur. Ha. It was never released, actually you can almost see it though. Look at the new Windows phones.)
    It has now insinuated itself so deeply into the marrow of Android that 'it really isn't Android any more' either. And 'Droid has morphed into a (sigh) 'Borg!

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Verizon ran a $125M promotion campaign for Droid RAZR. How many manufacturers are going to want to do that? If Verizon doesn't have control, they won't run the ads.
    And Google tried the direct sales model, massive failure.
    "An educated consumer is our best customer."

    How much wholesome education of the consumer could those millions have bought?

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Ah, the 700MHz spectrum rules. The holy grail to the hackers. Yeah, those rules are so weak they mean nothing. Before drinking that kool-aid, look and see what it is you are drinking.
    To paraphrase an earlier paraphrase made by Jasaero (from the posse scene in Blazing Saddles):

    'Rules? V-z don't need no stinking rules."

    You point out the weakness of these rules, I presume, to emphasize how easy they are to break:
    So, essentially, then 'might makes right' is the vzw position on the matter?

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Personally I like the idea of open devices that can move from carrier to carrier. Hell all the OEMs do to some degree (which should give you pause).
    Then you should figure that the BTG Mozilla project is just about the best thing since sliced bread.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Make a phone that can be used on all the carriers and not have to subject yourself to months of carrier testing? Release phones when you want, not when the carrier has the correct shelf space.
    Buttttt....... no carrier store support or ad support. No carrier first level trouble shooting (most returns are stupid that are easily handled by the carrier). And OEMs free to release phones that kill the network (looking at you Apple and your poor radio design that uses way more bandwidth than necessary).
    Another paraphrase, this time Dakota [D4 pre-rls Feb 7]: 'Too long is too long.'

    There must be a way to get new versions of Android onto handsets in a more timely fashion.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Sure the carriers seem like the devils at times, but remember there are things they do that really benefit their customers.
    You mean like vzw in 'Public Wi-Fi in Philly'?

    I may already see indications that Big Red is aspring to reprise that role in the upcoming critically acclaimed sequel and box office flop, 'Radio Vorticity'.

    Perspective instantiates reality.
    ( By DX w/HoFo app. )
    Last edited by TC_Mits; 03-08-2012 at 09:16 AM.

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    Okay, I get bored easily so I am skipping most of the comments.

    What does Mozilla's BTG project have to do with moving phones between carriers? The differences between carriers is in the radios, Mozilla is not touching the radio.


    On 700MHz spectrum rules, I am not saying that might makes right or that VZ is trying to break them. I am saying that the rules are so poorly written that they mean nothing. Sure when you read them you get all excited, but when you look at what they really mean, well it just doesn't mean what you thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    'Prettier"? This kind of hyperbolic misquote is another frequent ploy. If the reader can think a little -- it's weak.
    Uh, prettier was my word. It was not a quote of anyone else, actually it was a question. If you read what I wrote I was asking if you give away your advantages what do you have left to offer?
    So... can you stop the act?


    On the slow move to ICS, has the Nexus S moved to ICS yet?


    And to expand some, the manufacturers improve the framework and you appreciate it. A lot of people post here about Motorola's superior radios, and some of that improvement is embedded in the framework modifications Motorola's does. As are improvements in power handling, audio, and how accessories are handled. It isn't all about the UI, even if that is what you are looking at.


    The wallet comparison? Maybe, except how often do you take your wallet out and leave it sitting on the table for someone to grab? Or much, much more importantly... if someone steals your wallet do they return it so you don't know if was stolen? Your phone is a data pipe, how about if I can stand next to you and access your phone's data without you knowing it? Sure you might notice if they physically took your phone, but that really isn't the fear here.


    And commodity priced hardware is a pipe dream. Which chipset do you center on? Remember with PCs everyone centered on Intel. With phones you have application processors from TI, NVidia, Qualcomm, ST-Ericsson, Intel, Broadcom, and Mediatek on the market. TI with OMAP4 dominated last year, this year Qualcomm will dominate. In 2013, that battle is still to come.
    So with no clear chipset that should be used, how do you lock down to a single commodity when the guts always change?

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    all I know is that the software on my RAZR is compatible if not better than stock ICS. I feel it's better because it smoother (all the way around) and I feel it's just as feature rich as stock ICS.

    I don't care when the update is pushed to my phone because I personally feel I'm not missing anything. I don't need face unlock, instant picture taking and google search bar on my homescreen. Seems like people just like to complain because thats what everyone else does. "I want my updates now!" Is getting a silly update going to change ones life that drastically? Who cares. I appreciate having a perfectly working Droid RAZR that I don't need to reboot every few days because it slows down or locks up.

    I'm no longer concerned about getting updates quickly. My main concern is having a solid running handset first. I do not have time to beta test buggy releases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    On the slow move to ICS, has the Nexus S moved to ICS yet?
    Yes, since December 16th or about the exact same time the Galaxy Nexus went on sale, so was basically running ICS as early as ANY other device out there officially marketed in the USA.

    On spectrum rules(even if they didn't exist), I would just like to see OEMs challenge the carriers to allow more unrestricted unsubsidized sales and marketing rather than apparently just always agreeing behind the scenes 100% to not bother marketing unlocked and open devices. Who knows how many unlocked voice provision capable tablets for example could be sold if you have a segment of the market that wants a tablet they keep with them most of the time. Why should VZW decide whether such a device is marketed to those that want it?? Not like it's any different than a smartphone or a smartphone and a tablet in the end other than they are only selling one data plan to those that opt to keep a tablet with them most all the time and just save on an extra data plan by sim swapping and not worrying about missing calls cause the tablet can accept them also. The OEMs have power to enable this savings to the end user and possibly sell such devices without need of subsidy if they were just to stand up to networks. Would it be TONs of them? Probably not, but could it possible be a majority of 3G/4G capable tablets if marketed well by the OEM that stood up and tried it? I think that would be possible done correctly. You have to challenge the network provider though to get device sales going outside subsidy and network provider dictate. We have lots of grandfathered unlimited data users now that may not even be willing to opt for new subsidies if the networks all the sudden try and force of out of unlimited data with new contracts down the road. When that comes, the OEM most ready to go it on their own could see some big sales. I agreed to unlimited data at some price and VZW as far as I am concerned can not change that unless they get me to sign another contract. I was not promised any particular speed for that data so they can probably throttle me, but I'm keeping the unlimited stuff unless they offer some limited or pay for speed level sorta option I feel offers more than whatever throttle regime they might start pushing on me. We'll see, but there is a market for nonCarrier sponsored/marketed devices and if they existed more there might be more pressure from us customers for non subsidy priced plans that could really open up the market for these open devices. OEMs should be taking the lead on this open device stuff, rules or no, and putting pressure on carriers for them to sell sponsored and unsponsored open devices.

    We aren't talking prettier so much as making the most desirable device in general which is related to lots of things that can still be vastly different even if a lot of what is used to get there is mostly shared. Not to mention all of them have already taken the path of software differentiation to go along with hardware. But in the end final component selection and overall optimization could all still be unique even if there were very well done reference designs being shared. Intel has learned this VERY well over the years in how they offer great starting points for all variety of systems to their customers(even for competing products to their own such as Motherboard designs that they just gave away) and could very well school those not interested in commoditized mobile devices in the coming years and FORCE it on them!! I find companies that are massively protective in a near paranoid way of trade secrets tend to be rotting in many other ways and fear needing to compete in a more direct way not necessary if they can ensure no one else learns where their nuanced advantages come from.

    What is being suggested about wireless phone snooping is akin to pick pocketing where your wallet is stolen without you knowing. Don't chain my wallet to myself though. We already transmit all the data for such wireless schemes to be used anyhow as we do so much online banking and shopping with our device already. Atleast NFC has a VERY small operating distance. Again empty arguments and it remains much more secure than the Benjamin's, Checks, or Plastic in my wallet. All it really does is shift the thieves of the world's focus. No reason you MUST make their job WAY harder, they are going to have trouble shifting focus anyway. As long as your bank info and other sensitive stuff is encrypted when it leave out over the air a thief is going to have a VERY tough time. Sure it adds a new reason for a thief to pick pocket your phone over your wallet, but these days with most carrying mostly plastic that can be shut down right away and no cash the focus is probably more on the phone than wallet anyhow as it's probably worth more than the pittance of cash and useless plastic you end up with in a wallet. Really in the end though I have never had trouble protecting my wallet or phone from all them evil thieves all over the place. What's really going on with these security concerns is paranoid fear of change, just like happened with plastic that was also much more secure than cash or checks by it's very nature. Phones are the same. Will be safer than plastic even with minimum security and it's all to do with how soon you are going to notice it missing and how much easier it is to turn it into a useless piece of plastic.

    X86 compatible systems had numbers not far from today's ARM use in the mobile world and are at 3 even today with AMD, VIA, and Intel all having unique processors, busses, and subsystems and such. The only real difference is the lack of OEM component suppliers level of driver development support for end user consumption compared to what you have with component suppliers to the windows ecosystem. There is ZERO reason Google now with control of a device OEM couldn't encourage an "Android Compatible" platform as what happened somewhat more naturally with Windows that grew out of the "IBM Compatible" OEM stuffs from the DOS days. Whether you see it or not, it IS in Google's best interest as a "Software and OS" company making revenue through B2B and marketing sorta stuffs rather than end user direct revenue to have DIRT CHEAP devices that are STILL GOOD running Android.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughtrr View Post
    all I know is that the software on my RAZR is compatible if not better than stock ICS. I feel it's better because it smoother (all the way around) and I feel it's just as feature rich as stock ICS.

    I don't care when the update is pushed to my phone because I personally feel I'm not missing anything. I don't need face unlock, instant picture taking and google search bar on my homescreen. Seems like people just like to complain because thats what everyone else does. "I want my updates now!" Is getting a silly update going to change ones life that drastically? Who cares. I appreciate having a perfectly working Droid RAZR that I don't need to reboot every few days because it slows down or locks up.

    I'm no longer concerned about getting updates quickly. My main concern is having a solid running handset first. I do not have time to beta test buggy releases.
    My concern is more based on Dev effort, support, and focus on new features and API's that open up lots of nice stuff on the new platform. A lot of the reason apps on android are FINALLY catching upto iPhone has a lot to do with manufacturers finally all getting upto Gingerbread which has lot of background things allowing nicer apps than what was possible when many were still on pre-2.0 or 2.1 or even 2.2 systems. So basically the last and most significant step to catching Apple is finally here and it seems it's going to be FOREVER before any devices are finally running this system that has finally caught up to Apple in a more complete way.

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