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Thread: The GooMoto Thread! Where does Moto go now that it will be part of Google?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Okay, I get bored easily so I am skipping most of the comments.
    ....
    Sometimes, as much, or more, can be gleaned from what is not said -- and how -- than from what is.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    On 700MHz spectrum rules, I am not saying that might makes right or that VZ is trying to break them. I am saying that the rules are so poorly written that they mean nothing. Sure when you read them you get all excited, but when you look at what they really mean, well it just doesn't mean what you thought.
    It still sounds to me like you are saying that the vzw interpretation -- and therefore yours also -- of the legal language is mightier than anyone else's.

    Isn't that really something that ought best be decided in a court of law?

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Uh, prettier was my word. It was not a quote of anyone else, actually it was a question. If you read what I wrote I was asking if you give away your advantages what do you have left to offer?
    Yes, of course, 'prettier' was your word. That was exactly my point. Compare "just a pretty face" to "a more attractive alternative". It's not the fact that the denotation is the same, it's the subtle contextual deprecation in the former's connotation. It is not this instance that I'm pointing up, but rather a pattern of subtle allusions intended to devalue opposing points of view.

    Since this requires insight, you may choose to draw a blank on this one, but, "To anyone capable of reading between the lines..."

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    So... can you stop the act?
    What "act" exactly are you referring to? And are you capable of completing a post replying to someone who disagrees with you without descending to either direct or subtle ad hominem disparagement?

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    And to expand some, the manufacturers improve the framework and you appreciate it.
    "But it was alright, ... He loved Big Brother."

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    A lot of people post here about Motorola's superior radios, and some of that improvement is embedded in the framework modifications Motorola's does. As are improvements in power handling, audio, and how accessories are handled. It isn't all about the UI, even if that is what you are looking at.
    ...
    No. The UI isn't what I'm looking at, despite the misdirection. Your authoritatively phrased categorical statements of opinion notwithstanding, the issue is choice. If I disagree with your personal evaluation of the overlays -- or even if I tend to agree, but still want to check it out for myself -- vanilla Android should be a provided option.

    Maybe I just prefer my Android to be as close as possible to the open-source model it purports to follow. Or maybe I have other concerns, it doesn't matter. My point is that the 'not-skin' UI overlays strike me as deathly afraid of direct competition with vanilla Android at the "educated consumer" level.


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    Last edited by TC_Mits; 03-11-2012 at 07:20 PM.
    Learning Android root on my SGSIII while waiting for Ubuntu Phone OS.

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  2. #62
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    Okay, this will be fast. You can match them to the post above.

    Or I really do get bored?

    My 700MHz interpretation wasn't from me, I am not a lawyer. If you really care that much, read the rules again very carefully and figure out where it says bootloaders have to be unlocked. I wish it did, but it doesn't.

    Prettier again? Read the whole comment I originally wrote. Stop trying to read between the lines and get more than was there. I was writing that if an OEM gave their advantages away what would they have to compete on besides being pretty?

    No.

    You are looking at the UI, that is what you see when you look at your phone. It wasn't a misdirection. You don't look at radio reception, power consumption, audio clarity. My sentence was very direct.
    And that is the act I am talking about before, reading more into what I wrote than is there.

    And this has been covered like crazy, vanilla Android is an option. The Galaxy Nexus. The HW and SW are a package, you buy the entire thing. And Google has provided a vanilla option.
    Would I like a different situation, already covered that previously. This is what it is and no one has been able to provide any real numbers to show that changing it would increase sales.

  3. #63
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    I'm trying to decide if it's even worth bothering. I should, because it's clear this kind of misdirection, innuendo, and obfuscation is how you preserve your aura of authority.

    But, you sidestep anything direct, because your struggle has nothing whatsoever to do with truth; it's ALL about winning with you. So it's also clear you would just keep on ignoring logic and any straightforward challenge to your 'phone whisperer' supremo persona no matter how effective the logic you dismiss.

    I bow in submission to your self-assumed invincibility. But I still know that much of what I see is indistinguishable from stuff I see every day laying in my cow pasture.


    Perspective instantiates reality.
    ( By DX w/HoFo app. )

  4. #64
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    TC_Mits, you complain "it's ALL about winning with you" but then you have to get in the last word and make a personal/snarky attack (phone whisperer supremo/self-assumed invincibility/cow pasture)...and I'm sorry but it's your arguments or points that have no logic. Reread your replies...they are all just "so you think you know it all huh, wise guy".
    Hypocrite for calling someone out as having "self-assumed invincibility" when you say "no matter how effective the logic you dismiss"?

    Sigh...Moderators please lock this thead.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbannach View Post
    TC_Mits, you complain "it's ALL about winning with you" but then you have to get in the last word and make a personal/snarky attack (phone whisperer supremo/self-assumed invincibility/cow pasture)...and I'm sorry but it's your arguments or points that have no logic. Reread your replies...they are all just "so you think you know it all huh, wise guy".
    Hypocrite for calling someone out as having "self-assumed invincibility" when you say "no matter how effective the logic you dismiss"?

    Sigh...Moderators please lock this thead.
    This fish ain't taking that bait.

    What I have posted comes quite reasonably close to truth right down the line. My arguments are logical. They are, of course, subject to logical challenges, but instead mostly are sidestepped by vapid, specious, and non sequitur diversions misrepresented, by a poster who has demonstrated the intelligence to know what he's doing, as direct responses.

    When this is again a place for genuine two-way discussion, I look forward to participating fully. For the moment one-sided snippets are the vogue.

    In that vein, Mr. Bannach gives good advice to anyone trying to make sense of all this -- please do reread my replies.


    Perspective instantiates reality.
    ( By DX w/HoFo app. )
    Last edited by TC_Mits; 03-13-2012 at 07:02 AM.

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    TC-Mits, why are you challenging Susurro at every turn? The man obviously knows what he's talking about and nothing he has said is misleading. He's succinct, to the point and isn't writing in some secret code. I think you are looking into what he is saying way to deeply. You are perverting his words and making it into something it is not.

    Lets keep a good discussion going but please don't bog it down anymore. Thanks you.

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    Yeah, I can't fault anything Susurro says. It seems to be inline with what I observe otherwise from Motorola's behavior as a company.

    Also, I think his take on the legal issues surrounding 700mhz are technically correct. The intent of those "rules"(not even sure you can call any dictates from the FCC related to spectrum buys "Laws") is a totally different thing than the actual legal implications of not minding the intent of those rules. I would rather just see an HTC approach to the bootloader issue, this is all on Motorola and how they choose to maintain their relationship with VZW and others. I personally think Motorola though has their own issues with letting their consumers unlock their devices and if that is the case I will just speak with my wallet until that stance changes.

    Basically, I have very strong opinions about WHY Motorola can't sell as many phones as Samsung. Not sure Susurro agrees, but that is fine with me. Motorola will continue to play second fiddle to Samsung though if they continue to stick to their guns on things the way Susurro seems to suggest they will. If this is the case though, I would really rather see Google exploit them differently rather than retain them as a subsidiary that competes independently from Google with their other device partners.

    Basically turn them from device OEM into Android Hardware Reference Design firm. They would be awesome at this and awesome reference designs tend to turn into awesome and AFFORDABLE devices. Who needs subsidies if you have extremely awesome devices at pretty low unsubsidized price points. This is what Google is really after in the end anyhow. The more easily attainable a high grade device, the more people that will have fully capable devices for Google to market their stuff through to ad partners and such. Would be a VERY effective approach to forcing carriers into the dumb pipe corner Goog wants them in.

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    This is only Korea and Europe and probably mostly only for unlocked phones or phones without any carrier specifics, but as far as I know Motorola still hasn't started this ANYWHERE and only has the more google specific Xoom running ICS officially. Thought Samsung was slow with updates??

    http://www.androidcentral.com/ice-cr...rope-and-korea

  9. #69
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    I think TC_Mits has been reading too much Cervantes lately perhaps, but he seems to genuinely enjoy tilting at windmills and has a penchant for florid language. Maybe a local production of "Man of La Mancha" could soothe his soul?
    kbman

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasaero View Post
    Basically, I have very strong opinions about WHY Motorola can't sell as many phones as Samsung. Not sure Susurro agrees, but that is fine with me.
    Just thought I would give my reason. Because Samsung produces more types of phones and does global launches while Motorola seems to have forgotten how to work with Europe at all. Samsung did 10M GS2 phones globally before the US launch, that is 10M phones bought that Motorola didn't even attempt to address. So much of phone sales is about having the correct sales pipe, and Motorola simply doesn't have them anymore outside of Verizon and LATAM.
    There are efforts being made globally to address that, but Samsung has those relationships while Motorola has to rebuild them. Unfortunately for Motorola sales, that process takes a long time.

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    Thanks for the defense guys, but I am okay. If he just wants to hear what he has already determined, I will say that is his choice. He doesn't want direct answers or the truth, he wants to hear very specific things. That is fine.

    And honestly, is it even possible to win a discussion on a blog?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Just thought I would give my reason. Because Samsung produces more types of phones and does global launches while Motorola seems to have forgotten how to work with Europe at all. Samsung did 10M GS2 phones globally before the US launch, that is 10M phones bought that Motorola didn't even attempt to address. So much of phone sales is about having the correct sales pipe, and Motorola simply doesn't have them anymore outside of Verizon and LATAM.
    There are efforts being made globally to address that, but Samsung has those relationships while Motorola has to rebuild them. Unfortunately for Motorola sales, that process takes a long time.
    As far as I know they don't even match Samsung in the USA for Android sales alone. Really close once you wack off Samsung nonAndroid smartphone sales, but the SII sales with nonVZW sorts are killing Motorola sales on those networks, even if a more or less comparable Moto is up for offer on the network. It's a lot closer here than internationally, but even with devices now finally getting sold everywhere but the smallest big network, they are still coming up short to Samsung and probably even HTC, while also LOSING money over last year.

    I would also REALLY like to know how the Galaxy Nexus has done against all the various iterations of the RAZR. Doubt I'll ever know, but all the different configs and price points on the RAZR seem to suggest to me that Motorola is struggling to match the Galaxy Nexus sales number so is throwing various price points at it. Just the fact the Galaxy Nexus has held strong at $300 with no new versions to offer up that price point or a lower one suggest it's selling well. Although there is rumor a 16gb model may hit. Really though with $200 iterations of the RAZR it should be killing the GNex now that those have been available for awhile. ReZound is now knocked down in price.

    Anyhow, there are very specific reasons the Galaxy Nexus is probably competing so well with the RAZR line with inferior battery and reception at the same price point as the Maxx. Sales strength of the GNex is the only reason I figure it's still $300 through VZW.

  13. #73
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    Here is a hint: VZW never wanted the Galaxy Nexus and did everything possible to delay or cancel it outright.

    It was pushed down their throats by Google in a very bitter battle of corporate brinkmanship.
    They do not want it to sell well...

    It is selling as well as it has based on it's being a developer device. I doubt that broader market sales are that significant for the LTE variant.

    Nexus branded devices have never sold well at all, although this being the first on VZW and first LTE Nexus had a chance to change that pattern. I think VZW will continue to do everything it can to prevent that from happening.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbman View Post
    Here is a hint: VZW never wanted the Galaxy Nexus and did everything possible to delay or cancel it outright.

    It was pushed down their throats by Google in a very bitter battle of corporate brinkmanship.
    They do not want it to sell well...

    It is selling as well as it has based on it's being a developer device. I doubt that broader market sales are that significant for the LTE variant.

    Nexus branded devices have never sold well at all, although this being the first on VZW and first LTE Nexus had a chance to change that pattern. I think VZW will continue to do everything it can to prevent that from happening.
    I have figured this probably happened all along, but have never heard this confirmed from anyone I could be certain would know such things. VZW did do some commercials and more to push it than I had anticipated though, even though it's probably not pushed by them nearly as hard as the RAZR.

    With all this possibly going on though, it would just be even more amazing if it really were a close race in sales. And it really isn't ONLY the developer aspects that make the GNex a desirable phone. It really does seem like a smaller phone than the RAZR yet has larger screen by a good bit. And the display is obviously nicer in general, particularly if you compare side by side. Add officially removable/upgradable battery and ICS and it probably wouldn't even need the officially supported unlocking to sell well. That's the icing for enthusiasts really.

    There is something odd going on with software for it though probably related to VZW. There is the leaked 4.0.4 build that has never happened, yet most running it find it WAY better than current official builds. I really would prefer a true nonVZW sponsored device at this level though. They still let us upgrade while keeping our unlimited data, but if they don't start throttling us unlimited LTE users, I do expect they will force us into unlimited plans to get a subsidy.

  15. #75
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    I do have a basis for my opinions, though they differ from yours significantly.

    I have had a Gnex since before it was released and had access to all of the firmware builds that have surfaced and more before they leaked...just sayin'

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