I worked for Telus in Client Care (call centre rep) for many years, and recently parted ways. I'd like to share just a bit of information that I feel is relevant. I'm sorry if this seems long. lol.
#1 If you're not rich, you're not worthwhile.
I remember being in a meeting early in 2011 where Telus stated how hard they were working to acquire (re: steal away) high revenue clients from Bell and Rogers, both in terms of big consumer accounts, and of course SMB (small medium business) accounts. They literally stated in the meeting that those who contribute less than $100 per phone line per month are so "low revenue" in their eyes that they do not matter, and would rather see them go in favour of gaining those larger accounts. The point of telling us that was so that we avoid offering people lucrative renewal deals unless they were really big spenders. So if you contribute $85 of your hard earned dollars for a cellphone plan each month, you're barely on their radar. Pathetic, I know.
On a related note, many of you may know that Telus changed their hardware upgrade timeline earlier this year. I posted about this very thing back then.
Before, it was like so (assuming a 3 year term):
Platinum Perks clients ($200+ in monthly revenue)
Eligible for full renewal discount anytime during final 24 months
High Value clients ($90 to $199 in revenue)
Eligible for full renewal discount anytime during final 12 months
Regular clients (below $90 in revenue)
Eligible for full renewal discount anytime during final 6 months
Now, it is like so:
Those who contribute below $200 have to wait until there are 3 months left on their contract to get a full renewal discount.
Those who contribute above $200 get a full discount every 12 months.
(A full discount means not having to pay any mid-contract "upgrade fees")
So basically, the point made in that meeting was translated to this change: unless you contribute a ridiculous $2400 or more per year to your cell bill (per line! not per family!) then you're not giving them enough to get a decent offer.
#2 They want you to go over. They really really do.
When I started working there, Telus had a program called "Telus to Win". In short: a job requirement was to bring up the most recent bill when a client called in. If you noticed something they were over-paying on, you had to mention a way to help.
Example: "Mr. Schumacher, I noticed you used 61 minutes of Canadian long distance on your most recent bill. At 35 cents per minute, you were charged $21.35. Did you know we offer 100 minutes of long distance for $10? You'd get more minutes than you used, and you'd pay less."
It was a no obligation suggestion (you wouldn't be fired if people said no), but at least 30% of the time, it saved people a ton -- especially those who do a ton of pay-per-use texting. At 15 cents a text (per direction), it really ads up.
Starting sometime in 2010, not just did Telus get rid of that concept, but they imposed a ridiculous new system:
1) You cannot offer someone anything that would reduce Telus' income. So if they had Caller ID for $8 and Unlimited Text for $15, you could not offer them Package 15, which would provide both of those services for $15 total.
2) You could only proactively offer to "right-size" someone's overages if they exceeded $200 in any one area. Meaning $92 in minute overages and $130 in data overages? Nope! Not allowed to help them, because it's not $200 in one single area.
3) You could only offer to "right-size" them in smaller circumstances if the customer brought it up themselves. Despite having access to their file and seeing a way to save them like $40/month without them losing a damn thing, you couldn't help unless the customer said something, like "are there ways I can reduce my bill?"
I honestly found that abhorrent. Their answer: "You only feel that way because you started working here back when we helped save people money. If you had started after, you would think its a GOOD thing for us to maximize profits regardless of the situation."
#3 It's not usually the agents fault!**
In most cases, it is not that the person you are speaking to isn't willing to help -- it's that the company they work for isn't allowing them to do any better. It sucks. For example, they originally allowed my department (regular customer service reps) to provide free perks as incentive (50% off your bill for a month, Caller ID free for 3 months), like if you had a poor store experience or were given wrong info, but then in 2011, they made it so only the Loyalty and Retention department could do so, and even then, must be very conservative with freebies or discounts. They made a rule that if you're on one of those promotional plans (like the student plans), you're not allowed any freebies -- and they ran audits on that stuff. Any L&R reps found doing that would be reprimanded, and I knew at least 2 co-workers that were asked to return to the Client Care department because they were being too liberal with freebies.
**Except when it comes to the horrible outsourced reps. Then a lot of stuff is in fact their fault -- like adding a United States roaming package when a client says he is travelling from Vancouver to Winnipeg.
Also make note that this isn't aimed totally at Telus. It's also a bash of the cellular industry as a whole. Canada's telecommunications industry is a joke, and the CRTC is powerless to help. They've abolished 3 year contracts pretty much everywhere else, but in Canada? Here Rogers can create a Government Regulatory Recovery Fee, and then clearly state it is not collected by or affiliated with the government in any way, and the CRTC just lets that go.
Hope that was useful. Any questions, just reply and I'll try to help.
Last edited by kamp_krusty; 10-01-2011 at 11:23 AM.
The CRTC is run by the big 3 hence why the do whatever they please. CRTC is a giant waste of money and should be abolished. It's meant to protect Canadian content and the consumer yet they only protect the industry.
I've already sent 3 letters to my MP about this.
I would have to say most of this is on point (I was from DNA and left in 2010 so please understand my POV is that of someone hired to be a technician). When I joined the company was not that bad. We took mostly technical calls and had the power to actually get things done. As more of client care got moved to Manila (who would screw things up then proceed to dump it in the DNA queue), they made us responsible for handling client care calls as well and correcting the errors to "improve experience". We would FAIL a call for not handling something that was never originally in our scope of support or push it back. This in turn caused the reaction of Manila reps doing this further knowing our hands were tied. Then they started adding client care overflow regularly to us and prepaid overflow (which really is listening to people scream over pennies). There was a time we also were allowed to add perks for poor service which again was taken away and our credits were audited I would say more regularly than any other department.
Then before the HSPA launch we were trained on how to perform upgrades and assign offers (L&R duties). When reps complained about this, we were bluntly told we needed to "Embrace Change". The companies tag line for shut up and take it. Then they added they wanted us to upsell internet sticks, plans, LD, data...everything really. The attitude was we were only costing the company money even though we we usually were the last line of resort to actually get things fixed.
Then they launched the SMS based quality scoring that was fundamentally flawed. Clients we were forced to assist with client care billing matters we really were never equipped to do (our client care training was less than a week when the total training was around 3 months for DNA), and we individually were scored with questions more reflecting the company. So people were loosing their bonus because clients would respond negatively to matters outside of our control. Management ignored our concerns and told us to be lucky we have a job.
Then we get to the actual job: tech. In the time I was there they constantly were adding more tasks but also removing tools to get the job done. If you have ever wondered why you have to be put on hold for so long, it was usually because we had to call someone else to do something we used to be able to to in seconds. Trouble Tickets would get logged and get closed en masse without resolution (remember all those text messaging issues? Everyone was so exhausted from filing them to be closed and the issue to come back in a couple days it got to the point people would simply write it up and close it).
I didn't mean to kind of hijack your thread kamp_krusty but yes, Telus along with many other telco organizations are corrupt and only want to get deeper in your pocket. Glad you got out though and you will likely find your life far better with the weight off of you.
)I didn't mean to kind of hijack your thread kamp_krusty but yes, Telus along with many other telco organizations are corrupt and only want to get deeper in your pocket. Glad you got out though and you will likely find your life far better with the weight off of you.
Don't worry, I certainly value the feedback and in no way consider it a hijack. Several of my friends are/were in DNA, plus I had to call over there daily, so I know what they made you guys go through. Its absolute garbage.
That whole 'embrace change' line really bothered me. It truly was a way to shut us up. Things changed DAILY. Ridiculous atmosphere.
Telus is likely the lesser of the evils in the telecom industry... but slowly they are morphing into Bell... and everyone knows Bell is the devil.
Just curious.... Why is bell known as the devil? With Rogers right now and am pretty sure they Are the devil. Was going to join Bell and port my two lines over....
Thanks in advance.
Before I joined Mobilicity - I was with bell. My bill was $108/month (I know - AND I was treated like an idiot - but then again I AM an idiot to go with bell in the first place. I also had my own phone - so no device subsidy).
Well - I got the feeling that Bell and Telus have merged. Really - they are one entity. The reason I think this way is because - well look at it. Regulatory stuff wise - they wont be allowed to merge (on paper) but otherwise - their plans are the same -the treatment of customers are the same (bell didnt improve - telus worsened), the plans are the same, the practices are the same. What else can I say ?
I have a question for you. What is Telus' reaction to brands like Mobilicity and Wind? What were reps told about customers who call in saying they will switch to these?
Just curious.... Why is bell known as the devil? With Rogers right now and am pretty sure they Are the devil. Was going to join Bell and port my two lines over....
Thanks in advance.
I don't speak for kamp_krusty or anyone else's opinion on why Bell is the devil, but here are my reasons:
Price
If comparing literally identical plans/options, what they charge is considerably higher than the smaller telecommunication companies -- I've seen cases where they charge 350% more, and that is no joke. Also, look up info on Bell when they were the only landline provider in the mid to late 80s. They charged a ludicrous $1.50 per minute. The moment competition like Sprint showed up, boom, they were no longer a monopoly and had to adopt the 10 cent per minute stuff to stay competitive.
Non-transparent pricing
Every Bell price listing is "for the first 6 months AND in the Bell Bundle". Most of their packages are twice that price if non-bundled after 6 months.
Made-up fees
For home phone, Bell has a "LD network access fee" ($6.95/month!) Also, Bell charges a $1.95 "long distance network connection fee" if you make even 1 long distance call without having a long distance add-on.
Outsourcing
I can't even begin to explain how much I hate outsourcing, and Bell is the frontrunner in this insanity. I don't care how much money it saves them. It's terrible. It's not like they pass along those savings to the consumers. It just fattens their executive paycheques.
Poor rationalization
Go ahead and try reading the articles (or watching the videos) in which a representative from Bell tries to justify their practices, like with the whole UBB stuff. It's complete non-sense. The point they keep driving home is that their pricing and marketing strategies are in place to better prepare Canada for a more consumer-friendly tomorrow. (1) I call bull on that; (2) What about today? Even if you lying asshats were somehow telling the truth, why should we pay more so future generations can prosper? My way of paraphrasing their bull: 'we're going to charge you more until the competition is strong enough to change our minds.'
Lack of open information
Why does Bell throttle? Why do they claim there is congestion? BELL DOESN'T RELEASE ANY STATS TO BACK THEMSELVES UP.
Useless tech support
Their agents do not have ANY real-world knowledge. There is nothing worse than complaining about a complex issue, only to get an outsourced Bell rep that asks you to disconnect and reconnect your router.
"My way or the highway"
Like other large companies, you can't dispute raw usage. Says big telecom: "Those are legit charges, your cellphone/modem incurred that activity. End of story."
Gouging
Like many articles have stated, the overages are insane. A few cents to pass along bandwidth, so let's charge $2 to $5?!
Outwards shifting of blame
At my friend's place where his net was having issues I had to call Bell 11 times to resolve the issue, when from the start I told them it was an issue on their end. They kept insisting it was a problem on his end. Finally, the 11th call, the rep found something wrong on their back-end servers, fixed it, and within minutes the connection was re-established to the DSLAM. It took 4 days of working my way through idiots who said it was due to anti-virus software, the wrong version of Windows, not having all the right security updates, a defective modem, a bad ethernet cable, too long of phone cables, and bad electrical wiring.
Let me provide a real-world example:
TekSavvy -- my landline provider
My household pays $21 for the home phone line and $3 for Caller ID. That includes long distance across North America at a rate of 2.9 cents per minute (billed by the second) built into the base rate -- meaning we don't need to add anything extra to get that rate.
versus
Bell Canada - the devil
Bell charges $30 minimum, and if you want Caller ID or Call Waiting, you're up to at least $40, and then if you want long distance, there is a package available for $5.95 that reduces your rate to 5 cents per minute (billed by the minute) plus $6.95 for that aforementioned "long distance network access charge"
So, let's assume 300 minutes of long distance is done. Even though TekSavvy (rightfully) bills by the second, let's assume for the sake of argument that it is 300 minutes exactly.
TekSavvy: 300 x $0.029 = $8.70
versus
Bell: $5.95 + $6.95 + ($0.05 x 300) = $27.90
Seriously. Where is the justification in that, Bell?
I use Bell for my TV, just cancelled internet, and VMC for cell phone (I tried a few times with the new entrants, just don't cut it for signal + I go out of the city often...nor I won't give TELUS another red cent). Major issues I have had as a Bell customer is being double billed fees, massive technical problems with internet (if Bell says they will call you back...don't believe them!...I spent from Feb to last month calling and fighting with them to fix my line), and will make promises they have no intentions of honouring to get you off the phone (not going to detail that one...TELUS/Offshore is guilty of this one too).
VMC has only given me minor trouble billing wise but nothing that wasn't fixed with a (single) phone call.
Oddly, I have had no issues with Rogers (internet, tablet) other than their pricing is still in the past .
I have a question for you. What is Telus' reaction to brands like Mobilicity and Wind? What were reps told about customers who call in saying they will switch to these?
"You get what you pay for" and "Don't let the door hit you in the ***". Unless your high value. But then usually actually offering up a better plan dropped clients being HV...usually it ended up being a client on an ill fitting plan created a decade ago and paying far too much for basics. There is still a lot of people out there that have no clue what they are paying for and prices have come down (not enough but not opening that can of worms right now).
I have a question for you. What is Telus' reaction to brands like Mobilicity and Wind? What were reps told about customers who call in saying they will switch to these?
The official company line: because their coverage area is so minimal and because their network stability in their current zones can be spotty, they don't consider them a viable threat and so nothing comparable will be offered.
They offer the usual freebies (toss in Caller ID free or something) but being offered one of the unlimited airtime or unlimited long distance plans is extremely rare, and even if you are offered that, it's well more than the new entrants.
Mobilicity:
$25 Unlimited Plan (Unlimited Local Calling, Unlimited Text & Picture Messaging, Unlimited Mobilicity to Mobilicity Calling, Caller I.D., Unlimited Data)
Equivalent from Telus:
$50 for their unlimited local calling loyalty-only plan (in rare cases, they will offer it for $30)
$15 for Caller ID + Unlimited SMS/MMS
$15 for unlimited nationwide Telus to Telus calling
No unlimited data -- but you could try for $30 for 6GB, and even that is rarely offered
So, $25... versus $90 to $110, and getting it for that "specialty" price is considered a Loyalty and Retention BONUS.
* * * *
Anyway, crumbworks makes some excellent points. If I had to make a list of reasons I hate Bell, a lot of those bullet points would be why.
Originally Posted by crumbworks
Bell charges a $1.95 "long distance network connection fee" if you make even 1 long distance call without having a long distance add-on.
Using your example comparing those two companies, that means you could talk using TekSavvy for 4040 seconds (67 minutes) and you'd incur as much as Bell charges just for "allowing you the privilege" to make a single long distance call, and that doesn't factor in the cost of the call (in which Bell charges like 42 cents per minute if you don't have a LD plan)
Originally Posted by crumbworks
Why does Bell throttle? Why do they claim there is congestion?
Oh, there is certainly no network congestion. I guarantee the network likely doesn't surpass 50% load even at peak usage. It's simply their way of charging massive overages.
Originally Posted by crumbworks
Let me provide a real-world example....
Your example would prove Bell is even more of the devil if you factored in the per-second vs per-minute thing. That example (which you clearly simplified) would make the difference between those two providers WAY greater if you broke down the math.
Originally Posted by crumbworks
Seriously. Where is the justification in that, Bell?
Justification: "We want all your money. We'd create a $200/month 'convenience fee' if we could get away with it."
* * * *
Originally Posted by IshieKun
Major issues I have had as a Bell customer is being double billed fees, massive technical problems with internet ....... and will make promises they have no intentions of honouring to get you off the phone (not going to detail that one...TELUS/Offshore is guilty of this one too).
Bell is just as guilty as Telus in terms of billing issues. As an insider, we had this thing called a "ticker", which is a marquee at the top of your desktop window, flashing any major news (like major sites experiencing issues, BBM being down, etc.) and every day without fail, you'd see this in the ticker:
"New Billing issue #768 identified. Click here for details."
There was a new official billing issue that would appear almost every day, sometimes multiple per day. Every time there was a problem with someone's bill that you couldn't explain, you had to go sift through this list of DOZENS of open issues to find out if their issue fell within the scope.
Let me be clear, this isn't a billing issue like "oh, people werent aware of this"
No, it's like:
"We've identified a glitch where all clients from London, ON to St Catherines, ON were charged the full 40 cents per minute even during their free evenings and weekends period, and even if they still had minutes remaining in their bucket.
Affected dates: Feb 12 to Feb 18, 2011
Resolution: if client calls in, please re-calculate the charges for these dates and credit back."
Meaning...
More than half of people wouldn't notice there's an error... they'd think "oops I just had a high month", and Telus / Rogers / Bell would get away with stealing tens of thousands of dollars per billing issue.
Last edited by kamp_krusty; 10-02-2011 at 01:32 AM.
Reason: Typos
I don't get this Telus is becoming Bell part, for past year or two, every single time I checked, Bell had/has much better plan. I can find all sorts of Bell dealer offer me good plans, and none from Telus, unless you count Koodo.
Sure Bell's Internet UBB BS is crazy, but mobile wise, they had been much better than Telus for a long time.
Ah yes the TM Ticker I forgot about that (because it never worked properly LOL). I remember those billing notices some of them really were outrageous to the point you would wonder why a macro wasn't run to correct the billing rather than let the bills run and have a flood of calls. That wouldn't be revenue generating though.
Then again you also think that telus would cut off people rather than allowing insane data bills (I have seen bills in the 6 figures) then having to do a "bill shock" credit. I have literally had people feel like their life has been devastated and in tears wondering why nobody called or did something.
Edit: Most of the billing issues I speak of re. Bell were related to non mobility services.
Ah yes the TM Ticker I forgot about that (because it never worked properly LOL). I remember those billing notices some of them really were outrageous to the point you would wonder why a macro wasn't run to correct the billing rather than let the bills run and have a flood of calls. That wouldn't be revenue generating though.
1) Yeah, the ticker almost never worked for AHAs (agents working from home). They would often mass-message everyone on Microsoft Office Communicator and ask if it was cold transfers or not (since one of the ticker's main functions was to mention this).
2) Your point about revenue generation is so true. They'd rather 500 more calls over correcting the issue, because the 500 extra calls may cost them $6,000 in expenses (agent salary costs, call costs, routing costs, and credits to clients bills), but the money they'd steal from clients who didn't notice the billing issue would net them $70,000. Simple math.
Your point about the magnitude of the bill shock is spot on. I remember tons of them.
For example, you don't need to call in to enable International Dialing in order for your phone to be able to call Jamaica. Yet, what they don't mention is that it is something like $1.78/minute (I havent worked there in a while, so I forget the actual figure, but I know its around there).
In summary:
- You don't need to call to enable calls from Canada to most of the Caribbean
- Their rate to call there is insanely high
- They don't send you a text or anything saying "by the way, this is the rate for the country you just called, so be careful"
- They do not offer any package to reduce that rate at all
- They sometimes recommend using a calling card, which often FAILS TO WORK on their cell network, and you get dinged for the entire $1.78/min rate
So when you see clients with 4 hours worth of calls to Kingston, they'd have this $30 rate plan and a monstrous $430 worth of long distance. It shatters some people's hopes of ever being out of debt to see a bill like that.
Let's not forget that such a call is also airtime applicable, so it's like a double whammy. Adding insult to injury is the phrase.
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by IshieKun
.
Bookmarks