iPhone 4S as a CDMA device under PM?

[IDEA_NXT]

With iPhone 4S contains both CDMA and GSM/UTMS radios, I wonder will Public Mobile activate an iPhone 4S as a CDMA device?

[Joelle]

They don't activate non-PM devices.

Sent from my Desire HD

[kamp_krusty]

I think maybe IDEA_NXT is inquiring if PM may add the iPhone 4S to their lineup, since it supports CDMA and so do they.

In my opinion, it is very unlikely.

1) PM is very heavily targeted towards value-conscious consumers, and a no-contract 4S will be no less than $650.

2) Apple knows that carriers want the device, so have a lot of power over the terms of agreement. Historically, one of those terms involves taking a heavy cut of the data profits, and the carriers really have no choice but to accept. Because of this, PM would need to charge a very substantial sum in order to give Apple their cut and still make money. This again ties back to the budget-oriented comment above.

3) 1X data on a top-tier smartphone? That would be AWFUL and ruin the experience. It would take hours to get even a moderate-sized app via the App Store. This phone demands HSDPA to actually have an enjoyable experience. This ties back into both points above: no one would pay a high rate for such slow data speeds.

[IDEA_NXT]

I think maybe IDEA_NXT is inquiring if PM may add the iPhone 4S to their lineup, since it supports CDMA and so do they.

Actually that's not what I'm thinking. I am thinking more on buying iP4S outright at Apple Stores unlocked, and then bring the phone over to PM and have it activated as a CDMA device. It would be interesting to get an official response from PM regarding this.

1X data on a top-tier smartphone? That would be AWFUL and ruin the experience.

1X-EVDO is not actually that bad. I know Peel Police vehicles use 1X-EVDO to communicate between their onboard computers to/from the headquarters.

[kamp_krusty]

Actually that's not what I'm thinking. I am thinking more on buying iP4S outright at Apple Stores unlocked, and then bring the phone over to PM and have it activated as a CDMA device. It would be interesting to get an official response from PM regarding this.

Oh. Then no chance, as that is physically impossible. Unlocked phones are for GSM and HSPA only, because they are registered to the network by the SIM card, not the phone's serial number. So you can buy it unlocked and take it to any GSM/HSPA carrier, and buy their $10 SIM card. Done deal.

CDMA registers a phone by what is called the MEID (mobile equipment identifier) and that has to be pre-registered in that company's database when the phone is made. So when Joelle says they don't activate non-PM devices, it is meant literally: they physically cannot. They can't activate any CDMA device not created specifically for them as a carrier. That is why a Bell CDMA phone will not work on Telus' CDMA network. The MEID in the Bell phone is permanently registered in Bell's MEID database, and visa-versa, a Telus phone will not work on Bell.

1X-EVDO is not actually that bad. I know Peel Police vehicles use 1X-EVDO to communicate between their onboard computers to/from the headquarters.

1x and EVDO are not the same thing. 1xRTT (also known as CDMA2000) is one thing, and 1xEV-DO is an improvement made to 1x later on. Public Mobile uses the basic 1x.

Their website even contrasts the two:
http://www.publicmobile.ca/pmconsume...12d92&pageURL=

Question: How does Public Mobile’s data compare to competitors?
Answer: Public Mobile’s data is 1x. 1x data performs at similar speeds as HSPA and EVDO except on content heavy pages (i.e. pages with a lot of icons, logos, or photos). 1x data is perfect for using email, browsing the web, and using picture and instant messaging.

By the way, that is definitely stretching the truth. It is certainly not "perfect" for browsing the web.

Wiki: "The 1X standard supports packet data speeds of up to 153 kbit/s with real world data transmission averaging 60–100 kbit/s in most commercial applications"

100 kilobit is 12.5 kilobytes per second. Which is about 2 to 3 times faster than dial-up internet.

EVDO, on the other hand, is between 1536 and 3072 kilobit. That is still very slow for most modern webpages, which are image-heavy.

Let's take the 60-100 kbit and average it to 80. Compare that to HSDPA, commonly running at 14.4 Mbit (which is 14745 kbit/sec), and you've got the bare facts: 1xRTT is 184 times slower.

Another figure: the average mobile webpage is 400 kilobytes (and growing quite fast with content-heavy sites like FB)

So that means at 1xRTT speeds, each and every pageclick will take around 33 seconds to load.

[fruvous]

Doesn't PM use a completely different CDMA band?

[crumbworks]

It uses the G band spectrum, but its still 1xRTT. Whether its G band or not doesn't change its speed limitation, which I think was kamp krusty's point.

"Public Mobile's network is based on 1xRTT CDMA2000 technology, which provides service for voice, SMS and mobile broadband. They use the G band spectrum to transmit at the 1910 and 1990 MHz frequncies, which are part of the Personal Communications Service (PCS) frequency band deployed by most major operators since the early 1990s across North America. However, Public is currently the only carrier worldwide to use the G band. Such frequencies have the same operational characteristics as all other PCS frequencies.

As a cost-saving measure, the company only provides the legacy 1X radio transmission technology which is limited to theoretical maximum speeds of 153 kbit/s. Newer standards such as Evolution-Data Optimized (EVDO) and 3GPP Long Term Evolution (LTE) are not currently supported, although Public Mobile has indicated multiple times that it seeks to deploy LTE over its existing infrastructure"
- Wikipedia, cited through Reuters

I'm with Rogers, and my previous phone (the original Moto Razr V3) used a 2G GSM standard called GPRS, which is 56-114 kbit/second -- roughly along the same lines as what you'd typically get with 1xRTT, and let me tell you: it was painfully slow! On a 20 minute bus ride home from work, I was maybe able to look at three or four WAP-based web pages. It was several minutes of waiting between each new page.

[IDEA_NXT]

Then no chance, as that is physically impossible.

From a technical perspective, there are certainly ways to activate non-carrier provided CDMA devices. It's a more of a question as to whether the company wants to do it.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9805638-1.html

1x and EVDO are not the same thing.

Thanks for pointing that out. From the data perspective that's kinda sucks, but I know a number of people with iPhone's with no data plans - they are only interested in voice and text and use wifi as their data. So for them a PM plan would certainly be a possible choice. (I personally would not choose PM when there are others like Chatr, 7-11 SO, Petrocan and PC Mobile available, but having one additional vendor that someone can choose from certainly wouldn't hurt.)

[crumbworks]

I think the fact the iPhone 4S will be so costly outright would be a major deterrent to using it on a budget carrier.

[fruvous]

People are not rational about things like cost. I could see people mortgaging their houses for the device and then go on the dirt cheap plan.

[Guest 178]

An iPhone 4S would break Public's network, with the plans they currently offer! But having said that...I wonder if the Sprint announcement will have any effect on Public's business strategy. They could go from being almost non-existent to a huge threat.

[HC - NO "i"]

Folks,

Even if Public Mobile allows "non-PM originated" handset to be provisioned, Apple iPhone 4S does NOT support PCS G band.

[Jordan T]

What makes you think that? It almost certainly DOES support it since it's a Sprint CDMA device, unless we can see otherwise...

[HC - NO "i"]

Mark Uhde,

Greetings.

The FCC and Industry Canada certification make it a fact.

Sprint has awarded with the license for 1910-1915 and 1990-1995MHz paired spectrum in certain service markets is one thing, the actual deployment of the service for CDMA2000 network is another story.

Go and read it yourself in the Main SAR Test Report Rev B at its FCC filing and the corresponding Emission Designations at Industry Canada (shown below). Do you find the reference for the PCS G block band plan?

Model: A1387
Company Number: 579C
Company Name: APPLE COMPUTER INC.
Certification Number: 579C-E2430A
Approval Date: 2011-10-14
Type of Radio Equipment: Bluetooth Device Cellular Mobile GSM (824-849 MHz) Cellular Mobile New Technologies (824-849 MHz) PCS Mobile (1850-1910 MHz) Spread Spectrum/Digital Device (2400-2483.5 MHz) Wi-Fi device
Certified By: Compliance Certification Services Inc.

RSS133 5.0 1.85 G 1.91 G 245KGXW 600 mW 600 mW
RSS132 2.0 824.2 M 848.8 M 242KGXW 1.574 W 1.574 W
RSS132 2.0 824.2 M 848.8 M 248KG7W 841 mW 841 mW
RSS210 8.0 2.412 G 2.462 G 17M7D1D 337 mW 337 mW
RSS133 5.0 1.85 G 1.91 G 246KG7W 488 mW 488 mW
RSS210 8.0 2.402 G 2.48 G 1M12G2D 27 mW 27 mW
RSS133 5.0 1.852 G 1.908 G 4M20F9W 233 mW 233 mW
RSS210 8.0 2.402 G 2.48 G 1M08G2D 10 mW 10 mW
RSS132 2.0 826.4 M 846 M 4M16F9W 452 mW 452 mW

[kocoman]

The MDM6600/MDM6610 chipset does support the G band, but no one in english forums (not sure about chinese forums) has been able to open the DM port for QPST...