Uh Oh - Wind Mobile backer regrets Canadian launch

[Tendenzi]

I knew you were going to use this point, because it's the weakest argument I've ever seen. What capital WIND brings to the table for the wireless auction absolutely pales to what the Big3 are bringing. The last figure that was brought up was $500 million, which is absurdedly low for something as valuable as 700 MHz. Not to mention that it'll be financed mostly by debt, whereas the Big3, well, won't need to use as much debt.

Also, the same metric to measure the Big3 versus the new entrants is not the same for WIND vs Mobi/Public; it is quite literally an apples to oranges comparison. All of the new entrants have approximately the same infrastructure, subscriber base, etc. WIND does not have a significant advantage over Mobi or Public. Both have received significant backing from their financial partners and WIND is not responsible for their lack of funding for 700 MHz. If anything, the silence from Mobi/Public regarding the 700 MHz is very telling of their backers -- and of other potential bidders -- than of WIND.

What was the weakest argument you've seen? There was no argument. It's clear WIND's intentions are to own it all and muscle out the other new entrants, or hypocritically whine about how unfair it is they have to play with the big boys.

Also, know when to make "debt" an argument, they can afford more then $500 million as VimpleCom is as valuable as TELUS... so what's the real excuse? WIND is only in debt on paper to a company who can't legally "own" WIND canada until the laws change. Really it's just an investment for their parent companies. We can only use "debt" arguments when concerning about ARPU/Subscriber growth and ROI for the parent companies. Any other real company with a loan from the bank would be out of business 6 months ago.

So please don't pretend the Big 3 don't need to use as much debt. If all 4 companies are worth the same they're literally spending or borrowing against their shareholders in the same capacity.

[Tendenzi]

So if Wind shuts down...where do you go from here? Robbers, Bell or Telus? Vigin, Fido or Koodo? I dont wanna pay over $60 to get 6 gig and some day time minutes unlimited week nites and weekends...

This is terrible news man

yeah man, terribly horrible news man. Wish there was another company man. like if wind fails it means no one else is left man. like far-out there not even knowing man, how much mobilicity and public mobile or videotron offer as well dude. total bummer man. wind needs to survive so it can like save me from the incumbent dudes.

[droidacolyte]

I think the Canadian government should order Bell and Telus to break their network sharing and spectrum sharing partnership and go their separate ways. If Bell and Telus had their own separate networks, the market would be more competitive. Because right now since Bell and Telus are in bed with each other and co-dependent on one another, they can't undercut each other. Because that would rock the boat and strain their business relationship. We don't have a oligopoly in Canada. It's more like a duopoly. People keep comparing Rogers, Bell and Telus to AT&T, Verizon and Sprint. But Verizon and Sprint have their own separate networks no? If Bell and Telus went their separate ways, that would lessen the need for a fourth national carrier.

[Mr Mystery]

So if Wind shuts down...where do you go from here? Robbers, Bell or Telus? Vigin, Fido or Koodo? I dont wanna pay over $60 to get 6 gig and some day time minutes unlimited week nites and weekends...

This is terrible news man

[rodtaylor]

What was the weakest argument you've seen? There was no argument. It's clear WIND's intentions are to own it all and muscle out the other new entrants, or hypocritically whine about how unfair it is they have to play with the big boys.

$500M won't buy Wind a single shred of spectrum in Southern Quebec unless the rules somehow prevent Videotron from bidding on it all.

Even if just competing against the new guys, they're still far short of cleaning up.

[Tendenzi]

I think the Canadian government should order Bell and Telus to break their network sharing and spectrum sharing partnership and go their separate ways. If Bell and Telus had their own separate networks, the market would be more competitive. Because right now since Bell and Telus are in bed with each other and co-dependent on one another, they can't undercut each other. Because that would rock the boat and strain their business relationship. We don't have a oligopoly in Canada. It's more like a duopoly. People keep comparing Rogers, Bell and Telus to AT&T, Verizon and Sprint. But Verizon and Sprint have their own separate networks no? If Bell and Telus went their separate ways, that would lessen the need for a fourth national carrier.

Why stop there? Make the government force WIND and mobilicity to share spectrum and tower build out too. Also force Rogers to give their GRRF to WIND because WIND needs help. And come out with a new fee for the incumbents to pay towards new competition, call it the System Correction Fee to fix the corruption right?

LOL.

Bell and TELUS working is an innovative solution to the restrictions that are imposed on them by the government. It works.

[howard]

SCF! I love it!

Why stop there? Make the government force WIND and mobilicity to share spectrum and tower build out too. Also force Rogers to give their GRRF to WIND because WIND needs help. And come out with a new fee for the incumbents to pay towards new competition, call it the System Correction Fee to fix the corruption right?

LOL.

Bell and TELUS working is an innovative solution to the restrictions that are imposed on them by the government. It works.

[droidacolyte]

Why stop there? Make the government force WIND and mobilicity to share spectrum and tower build out too. Also force Rogers to give their GRRF to WIND because WIND needs help. And come out with a new fee for the incumbents to pay towards new competition, call it the System Correction Fee to fix the corruption right?

LOL.

Bell and TELUS working is an innovative solution to the restrictions that are imposed on them by the government. It works.

It's an innovative solution that works for whom? Bell and Telus' shareholders or the consumer? Canada has the highest ARPU in the world, three year contract standards and we still have archaic concepts like "local calling" and "national long distance" in wireless. I am not one to be a human billboard for WIND. I have been highly critical of WIND. I don't give two ***** about whether WIND survives or not. I only care about what we, the consumer, get out of all this. Something needs to be done to bring Canadian telecom into the 21st century. Even the United States is lagging behind (ie. charging for incoming calls) and we are lagging behind them! There has to be some sort of change that benefits the consumer. Canada's situation is an embarrassment to the rest of the developed world. We have the lowest mobile penetration rate of all OECD countries.

[Tendenzi]

It's an innovative solution that works for whom? Bell and Telus' shareholders or the consumer? Canada has the highest ARPU in the world, three year contract standards and we still have archaic concepts like "local calling" and "national long distance" in wireless. I am not one to be a human billboard for WIND. I have been highly critical of WIND. I don't give two ***** about whether WIND survives or not. I only care about what we, the consumer, get out of all this. Something needs to be done to bring Canadian telecom into the 21st century. Even the United States is lagging behind (ie. charging for incoming calls) and we are lagging behind them! There has to be some sort of change that benefits the consumer. Canada's situation is an embarrassment to the rest of the developed world. We have the lowest mobile penetration rate of all OECD countries.

These are always the stupid obama-esque campaign remarks from the average fanboy that makes no sense to me. You want canadian telecom to be magically reformed over the "hope" and "change" that WIND symbolizes? Please.

The OP shows that N.S. thinks it was a mistake to come into canada with out further seeing the true obstacles. Even with the free-pass they were given on ownership stuff, they're making so many stupid decisions, and I think if they had all the 700Mhz spectrum they'd still be sold out to the next company willing to gamble.

But please, let's continue to drive home the point that CANADA LACKS BEHIND OTHER COUNTRIES IN STUFF BECAUSE WE SUCK.

Sure.... if you don't like Canada's offerings, leave the country. If your cell bill is so concerning, that you need to be inspired by other countries cellular offerings, go live there.

Our population in all of Canada is also lesser then the entire subscriber base of majority of the networks you may point out as cheaper then canada around the globe. Think about that too.

I mean the problem with Canada and it's cellular industry is it's customers not the government or the incumbents. We are expecting a lot, we pay a lot.

[droidacolyte]

These are always the stupid obama-esque campaign remarks from the average fanboy that makes no sense to me. You want canadian telecom to be magically reformed over the "hope" and "change" that WIND symbolizes? Please.

The OP shows that N.S. thinks it was a mistake to come into canada with out further seeing the true obstacles. Even with the free-pass they were given on ownership stuff, they're making so many stupid decisions, and I think if they had all the 700Mhz spectrum they'd still be sold out to the next company willing to gamble.

But please, let's continue to drive home the point that CANADA LACKS BEHIND OTHER COUNTRIES IN STUFF BECAUSE WE SUCK.

Sure.... if you don't like Canada's offerings, leave the country. If your cell bill is so concerning, that you need to be inspired by other countries cellular offerings, go live there.

Our population in all of Canada is also lesser then the entire subscriber base of majority of the networks you may point out as cheaper then canada around the globe. Think about that too.

I mean the problem with Canada and it's cellular industry is it's customers not the government or the incumbents. We are expecting a lot, we pay a lot.

If you like getting taken for a ride by the Big Three to pay for that iPhone plan, suit yourself. Canada may have low population density but have you ever looked at a cellular coverage map in Canada? Canada is a huge dead zone. Rogers, Bell and Telus don't bother building towers in the vast majority of our land mass. Because only 5-7% of the Canadian population lives in that huge land mass. Don't exaggerate the expense of running a cellular network here. Aside from Edmonton, most Canadians live near the US border. You're making it seem like we're providing cell phone services to the igloos, boonie villes and native reservations nationwide or something.

[xtachx]

I think the Canadian government should order Bell and Telus to break their network sharing and spectrum sharing partnership and go their separate ways. If Bell and Telus had their own separate networks, the market would be more competitive. Because right now since Bell and Telus are in bed with each other.

well that will make telus take BC and AB while bell takes east. Then you pay roaming and not to mention that the east will get shafted more

Sent from my Nexus One using HowardForums

[likebutta]

But please, let's continue to drive home the point that CANADA LACKS BEHIND OTHER COUNTRIES IN STUFF BECAUSE WE SUCK.

Sure.... if you don't like Canada's offerings, leave the country. If your cell bill is so concerning, that you need to be inspired by other countries cellular offerings, go live there.

Really? Let's do the opposite and praise being priced gouged and just take it in the ***? Of course we're supposed to be vocal that Canada is lacking and -FALLING BEHIND- other countries. What other way is there to improve and innovate? And the fact that you are telling people to leave the Country because they don't like their cell phone bill is ****ing retarded. Honestly, just because people care about their cell phone bill here, ON A CELLULAR FORUM, where discussions about the -CELLULAR- industry occur, does not mean that's the only topic they care about in this country. Get off your ****, seriously.

[kEiThZ]

I find it surprising that 500 000 people sign petitions against a CRTC ruling on Internet services, yet people don't get worked up as much on cellphone bills which tend to be more expensive, with a less competitive sector.

Canadians are either incredibly ignorant or incredibly lazy.

I honestly don't even care about foreign ownership anymore. I really don't care if a bunch of Robellus employees lose their jobs. The telecom sector is so far behind in Canada, I am willing to bet that any serious study would show that it's a drain on our national productivity rather than an economic multiplier. I say open up the sector. At this point I'd rather send my money to Orange's shareholders in Paris than Rogers shareholders in Toronto.

As for Wind, my support to them, is for the impact and serious effort they've put forward here. I wish it had been Vodafone, or Orange or T-Mobile, but I'll settle for Wind. Better than what we had 2 years ago. I used to pay $55 with Rogers and barely use my phone. Now I pay $40 and I use my phone tons. I'm grateful Wind bought that change to Canada.

[kEiThZ]

Really? Let's do the opposite and praise being priced gouged and just take it in the ***? Of course we're supposed to be vocal that Canada is lacking and -FALLING BEHIND- other countries. What other way is there to improve and innovate? And the fact that you are telling people to leave the Country because they don't like their cell phone bill is ****ing retarded. Honestly, just because people care about their cell phone bill here, ON A CELLULAR FORUM, where discussions about the -CELLULAR- industry occur, does not mean that's the only topic they care about in this country. Get off your ****, seriously.

For Robellus employees and shareholders, Canadians are not customers. They are sheep that should be compliant when fleeced. His post is probably the most truthful view of the contempt that this lot has for regular Canadians.

Just imagine, his solution to somebody complaining about a high cellphone bill is not to fix the market, but to suggest that the person go in to voluntary exile. The exile of a citizen is preferable to any injury to Robellus profits.

[Tendenzi]

For Robellus employees and shareholders, Canadians are not customers. They are sheep that should be compliant when fleeced. His post is probably the most truthful view of the contempt that this lot has for regular Canadians.

Just imagine, his solution to somebody complaining about a high cellphone bill is not to fix the market, but to suggest that the person go in to voluntary exile. The exile of a citizen is preferable to any injury to Robellus profits.

Right on cue! Take you sarcastic remarks and honestly re-apply them to why Canadian government should forfeit the gross margin profits from ROBELUS to make a segregated market.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't our country benefit in some financial way from these auctions? Also, we still don't address this "buying power" issue that is used for some arguments and then forgotten for arguments like an auction. WIND and to the lesser extents mobilicity and public don't need to be treated like handicapped companies. they need to be allowed to fail and succeed on their own terms. Hand-outs are not a solution, but a repeat to a problem that exists today.

So yes, anyone claiming Canada is a horrible place to live because of their own cell phone bill (which mind you they can choose to make a difference by what they decide to spend and consume) then they can really leave. Because I'm not saying on a cellular forum we can't complain about the cost of our bills, but comparing our country and almost degrading it solely because of a cellular phone bill is just a little extreme.

So no, exile is not preferred, but if you're going to **** on my country because you can't get out of your dumb-*** way of signing contracts and not finding a use/bill suited for your needs, then please by all means, pick up your **** and go elsewhere, because obviously there is no solution in Canada for you to find accommodating. LMAO.