Rogers wireless customer service by home based pyramid scheme workers

**boblepp2** · 12-18-2011, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by ircu

Ok so the big question: Do you have proof of this?

And lets poke some holes in your theory and that is all this entire post is a theory...snip....

Second kick at your cat.... you will find a corroborating post from someone else below mine. It's real.

**rogers_chris** · 12-18-2011, 03:38 PM

Hey folks, Chris at Rogers here. I'm looking into this. I'll be back when I have some info to share. Thanks!

**pnjunction** · 12-18-2011, 03:56 PM

I don't think it's a pyramid scheme but it seems Rogers does use these 3rd-party at-home workers, which is lame for a whole bunch of reasons.

**Eluder** · 12-18-2011, 04:27 PM

Still better than Bell outsourcing to India if you ask me!

**rickyis911** · 12-18-2011, 04:46 PM

i would love to work from home but i don't trust this at all

**Mr Mystery** · 12-18-2011, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Eluder

Still better than Bell outsourcing to India if you ask me!

Or Telus outsourcing to the Philippines. I totally agree.

**ircu** · 12-18-2011, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by rogers_chris

Hey folks, Chris at Rogers here. I'm looking into this. I'll be back when I have some info to share. Thanks!

Will it be more then just a PR reply. If so I would say you might as well keep it to yourself.

**theplayground** · 12-18-2011, 08:33 PM

This certainly shud be illegal, but if people are actually paying for this.....then there is no one to blame but themselves....

**ceredon** · 12-18-2011, 09:22 PM

I don't think there is anything overtly illegal or even unethical about the practices described. If Rogers chooses to use Arise to fill their staffing needs, that is their choice. If Arise contracts out for recruiters and Rogers is OK with that, then again, no problem. It isn't even a 'pyramid scheme' in the loosest sense of the phrase. Yes there are a couple levels of recruiting, but it isn't like it is a continuous cycle of the recruits being tasked and rewarded for subsequently recruiting more and more. There is a definitive end service being provide, which most pyramid schemes don't really have. There is nothing similar, other than that with the extra recruiter there are a few layers, but it doesn't fit the definition of a multi-level marketing scheme anymore than company having multiple internal levels for hiring. This doesn't seem substantially different that any other company that uses any other external staffing company (i.e. kelly, manpower, etc) where a portion of the hire's paycheques goes to the staffing company.

It speaks volumes about how Rogers views both their customers and their CSR's that they would utilize a company like Arise, but it doesn't seem corrupt to me at all.

**theplayground** · 12-18-2011, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by ceredon

I don't think there is anything overtly illegal or even unethical about the practices described. If Rogers chooses to use Arise to fill their staffing needs, that is their choice. If Arise contracts out for recruiters and Rogers is OK with that, then again, no problem. It isn't even a 'pyramid scheme' in the loosest sense of the phrase. Yes there are a couple levels of recruiting, but it isn't like it is a continuous cycle of the recruits being tasked and rewarded for subsequently recruiting more and more. There is a definitive end service being provide, which most pyramid schemes don't really have. There is nothing similar, other than that with the extra recruiter there are a few layers, but it doesn't fit the definition of a multi-level marketing scheme anymore than company having multiple internal levels for hiring. This doesn't seem substantially different that any other company that uses any other external staffing company (i.e. kelly, manpower, etc) where a portion of the hire's paycheques goes to the staffing company.

It speaks volumes about how Rogers views both their customers and their CSR's that they would utilize a company like Arise, but it doesn't seem corrupt to me at all.

I have always respected ur opinion, but honestly I also think that the recruiting companies shud also be closed down. I will not go into details about why I think so because it might open up a long discussion. I feel this is the reason why so many regular everyday workers are miserable in this country. I certainly feel that its the sole reason why companies have become static when hiring new recruits and paying them benefits for what they deserve, it is because of such recruiting companies. I just feel its a bad practice, and thats just my opinion.

**Guest 260** · 12-18-2011, 09:41 PM

Oh outsourcing my favourite disdain. Most people who've never been a contractor don't understand the brutailty and reality of it. You're working for peanuts because the company who employs you is being paid less than it would cost the parent company to have the equivalent number of in-house employees. So to turn a profit they have to cut whatever corners they can, and it feeds down to the individuals that face the customer. I know a certain company's field techs (contractors) who deliberately ditch jobs which might take a long time for little pay (they're pieceworkers) or they do a really crappy job just to get outta there ASAP, even at the risk of failing QA inspections (the chargeback is worth it sometimes). The long story short, you get what you pay for, especially in terms of hired help.

**ceredon** · 12-18-2011, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by theplayground

I have always respected ur opinion, but honestly I also think that the recruiting companies shud also be closed down. I will not go into details about why I think so because it might open up a long discussion. I feel this is the reason why so many regular everyday workers are miserable in this country. I certainly feel that its the sole reason why companies have become static when hiring new recruits and paying them benefits for what they deserve, it is because of such recruiting companies. I just feel its a bad practice, and thats just my opinion.

Neither a fan of the companies nor companies that use them for 'permanent' positions. My brother got stuck in a contract with one of them in university doing CSR work for the original AT&T ISP (WorldNet I think) when they opened their call centre in Canada. They can be pretty scummy, but they aren't illegal and are a fact of life for now.

That's why I say I think it says a lot about Rogers and the importance they put on their customers and their CSR's that they are willing to use a company like this. Not defending Arise, just don't think this scenario fits the definition of a 'pyramid scheme' any more than any staffing agency.

**boblepp2** · 12-18-2011, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by ceredon

I don't think there is anything overtly illegal or even unethical about the practices described. If Rogers chooses to use Arise to fill their staffing needs, that is their choice. If Arise contracts out for recruiters and Rogers is OK with that, then again, no problem. It isn't even a 'pyramid scheme' in the loosest sense of the phrase. Yes there are a couple levels of recruiting, but it isn't like it is a continuous cycle of the recruits being tasked and rewarded for subsequently recruiting more and more. There is a definitive end service being provide, which most pyramid schemes don't really have. There is nothing similar, other than that with the extra recruiter there are a few layers, but it doesn't fit the definition of a multi-level marketing scheme anymore than company having multiple internal levels for hiring. This doesn't seem substantially different that any other company that uses any other external staffing company (i.e. kelly, manpower, etc) where a portion of the hire's paycheques goes to the staffing company.

It speaks volumes about how Rogers views both their customers and their CSR's that they would utilize a company like Arise, but it doesn't seem corrupt to me at all.

Not corrupt? Not even morally corrupt? That Rogers would allow Arise and its 'agents' to solicit labor to BUY into work through craigslist and Kijiji?? Is this what quality companies do these days? Do they all take a critical function such as front line support and place it on naive simple folks who don't seem bothered or clever enough to complain they have to pay a fee to have a job?

A call center in India is bricks and mortar as I understand them. This is piece work home based labor by simple people who are not smart enough to get a real job. They think that a job which did not require one face to face interview is a good thing? They are happy to buy and pay for all the job tools themselves before they draw their first dollar? The turnover must be fierce if they ingest 100 at a time for 6 weeks of training on a continuing basis.

Now Rogers can spend their money on the Leafs, yet another losing idea. Go Vancouver, unbeaten by the Leafs in 8 years.

If Rogers treated us as a competitor to Bell rather than sharing a Bell monopoly they would run the business in a different way. But since they have an agreement with Bell to cooperate on the same pricing and plans they can only change their profit by off beat deals such as Arise.

Shame.

**Shiryon** · 12-18-2011, 10:14 PM

I've totally noticed the difference since this new model has taken over. You rarely hear call-room background chatter - it's all quiet becuase it's in a person's living room. I heard a door bell ring once during a call.

Calls take much longer now, because they don't know what they're doing. They put you on hold forever. I've been hung up on 3 times when they couldn't figure out how to help me.

**boblepp2** · 12-18-2011, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by ceredon

I don't think there is anything overtly illegal or even unethical about the practices described. If Rogers chooses to use Arise to fill their staffing needs, that is their choice. If Arise contracts out for recruiters and Rogers is OK with that, then again, no problem. It isn't even a 'pyramid scheme' in the loosest sense of the phrase. Yes there are a couple levels of recruiting, but it isn't like it is a continuous cycle of the recruits being tasked and rewarded for subsequently recruiting more and more. There is a definitive end service being provide, which most pyramid schemes don't really have. There is nothing similar, other than that with the extra recruiter there are a few layers, but it doesn't fit the definition of a multi-level marketing scheme anymore than company having multiple internal levels for hiring. This doesn't seem substantially different that any other company that uses any other external staffing company (i.e. kelly, manpower, etc) where a portion of the hire's paycheques goes to the staffing company.

It speaks volumes about how Rogers views both their customers and their CSR's that they would utilize a company like Arise, but it doesn't seem corrupt to me at all.

Right, not overtly illegal. Just immoral and second class. Multi level schemes of any kind reek of bad morals. Paying to buy a job is immoral. It is what the mob did or does to take 'insurance' money from small business and stores. It has been cleaned up and called a different name but it smells the same.

Rogers pays Arise X dollars per hour for a phone rep. That X gets reduced by Arise overheads. It gets reduced by the overheads of their "Super virtual whatzits", and then some smaller part of X gets to a front line worker who then pays back part of X to the Super. And knowing that the full value of X is ALREADY LESS than what Rogers pays its own staff, what do you think about the loss of X just in overheads for 2 additional companies instead of going to the worker?

How much is X?? If the end worker gets $11.50, I am guessing X is $25 an hour, that Rogers pays Arise $25 per hour. Arise keeps 12.50, then pays Supers $4 an hour to find workers. Arise keeps $8.50 an hour, and then charges $21.25 per week back from the worker. This is about $1 per hour more they get back so they make $13.50 for an hour worked, the worker keeps 10.50 and Rogers gets a $10.50 worker for a $25 job.

I bet the numbers are pretty close to this. if they aren't Arise could not afford to exist.