I understand what you're trying to say, but let's look at it another way. Say I'm a Verizon customer with a Nexus living in LA with super fast 4G speeds. If I'm occasionally downloading music, watching high-res TV shows via tethering on my notebook while taking the 1-hour metro to work, and checking e-mail, each day, why should I be throttled down to speeds that are just slightly faster than dialup or forced to pay extra? Why is it that when the LTE network was at its finest, someone can blow through Verizon's 5gb monthly data cap in 32 minutes? Don't you think this might not reflect a Verizon subscriber's immorality, but rather laziness on Verizon's part? Even when we consider that speeds don't go that high, even blowing the data cap in a few days raises new questions. If you're going to market super high speeds, you only create the reasonable expectation that you'll be able to not only do the same usual tasks you did on 3G faster, but also that you'll be able to do MORE in LESS time. Pushing 4G and marketing it along with 4G-capable phones constitutes borderline deceptive advertising.
Free and full access to the internet is the central premise of evolving technologies. It's the next gateway to cloud computing. But data caps on both in-home DSL and data plans are what I predict will stifle innovation in the year 2012 and beyond.
I'm sorry but anyone who is smart enough to tether to a notebook is smart enough to get the show ahead of time for the bus ride. Stop coming up with crappy excuses for people who are too cheap to pay for wifi at home and ruin mobile networks for the rest of us.
If throttling effectively caps the 1% and allocates the speed back to us, I'm all for it. I know I never get anywhere near the limit with VM's data speed anyway...
Throttling data is fine at the current price points, what they should do is offer higher priced options for those wanting/using truly unlimited broadband data speeds. The current pricing with this data "Speed-Limit" is not a very smart move on their part. It makes competitors seem more competitive, and effectively raises prices for everyone wanting to keep a broadband experience on their device.
example... (renewing every 2.5Gb for broadband 3G speeds + minutes do not roll over when renewing BT plans) Virgin Mobile: $35 x 3 = $105 (7.5Gb 3G Data @ Broadband Speeds/900 minutes/Unlimited Texting)
Verizon 3G Smartphone prepaid plan ($10 more)
85.00 + 30 = $115.00 900 Anytime Minutes Unlimited Mobile to Mobile Calling with 80 million Verizon Wireless customers Unlimited Night Minutes Unlimited Weekend Minutes Unlimited Texting to anyone on any network in the U.S Unlimited 3G Data
+ access to other VZW optional features like roaming, etc.
AND much better VZW 3G smartphone selection... OR IF YOU DO NOT NEED 900 ANYTIME MINUTES
VZW Prepaid 3G Smatphone Plan 450 Anytime Minutes + Unlimited Texting + Unlimited Data = $94.99 If you do not need the unlimited texting then VZW's Prepaid 3G Smartphone plan with 450 Anytime Minutes + Unlimited Data = $74.99
P R E P A I D is just another way to offer (and pay for) premium services and devices.
I'm sorry but anyone who is smart enough to tether to a notebook is smart enough to get the show ahead of time for the bus ride. Stop coming up with crappy excuses for people who are too cheap to pay for wifi at home and ruin mobile networks for the rest of us.
Huh? What?
Bub, this is the trend, like it or not. It's inevitable. All I'm doing is sounding the alarm bell. People are coming to depend less on their in-home wifi. The typical American doesn't have enough disposal income to justify paying for two different internet services. More and more people I know these days are constantly traveling across multiple states for work. It's a new reality.
Seriously, stop shaping this in terms of morality. That rhetoric is just as bad the one being used by a certain brand of politicians and their followers who place the blame for our deficit problems on the poor. What I'd like to ask you to do is stop defending the corporations who play borderline bait and switch. Especially with the postpaid customers who're now on 4G. Why should anyone have to watch their data consumption if they're paying $100+/month for their plans? Don't you think their unwillingness to upgrade their towers to accommodate more traffic and their recent billion dollars in profits are hardly coincidental? Maybe you should be questioning whether the smartphone data market is too protected.
Last edited by cookedgoose; 01-20-2012 at 10:59 PM.
I don't think it's reducible down to grade school multiplication and division. Not everyone is willing to pay $50-70 more for extra minutes or even unlimited data they won't use. In fact...I think that's the whole point of Virgin Mobile's prepaid prices. To gain customers who'd rather not pay $750-115/month. That's the whole reason VZW and ATT are for now able to get away with data caps without losing customers.
Hate to burst your bubble, but you haven't made any new revelations.
But that isn't to say those data caps won't be problematic in the future.
Originally Posted by vmobi
Throttling data is fine at the current price points, what they should do is offer higher priced options for those wanting/using truly unlimited broadband data speeds. The current pricing with this data "Speed-Limit" is not a very smart move on their part. It makes competitors seem more competitive, and effectively raises prices for everyone wanting to keep a broadband experience on their device.
example... (renewing every 2.5Gb for broadband 3G speeds + minutes do not roll over when renewing BT plans) Virgin Mobile: $35 x 3 = $105 (7.5Gb 3G Data @ Broadband Speeds/900 minutes/Unlimited Texting)
Verizon 3G Smartphone prepaid plan ($10 more)
85.00 + 30 = $115.00 900 Anytime Minutes Unlimited Mobile to Mobile Calling with 80 million Verizon Wireless customers Unlimited Night Minutes Unlimited Weekend Minutes Unlimited Texting to anyone on any network in the U.S Unlimited 3G Data
+ access to other VZW optional features like roaming, etc.
AND much better VZW 3G smartphone selection... OR IF YOU DO NOT NEED 900 ANYTIME MINUTES
VZW Prepaid 3G Smatphone Plan 450 Anytime Minutes + Unlimited Texting + Unlimited Data = $94.99 If you do not need the unlimited texting then VZW's Prepaid 3G Smartphone plan with 450 Anytime Minutes + Unlimited Data = $74.99
No problemo here... most I've used per month in the past year is about 500mb. Mainly because I have no service at home and use wifi. I'm about to give up my unlimited $25 plan for a $5 mifi plan with Truconnect. The only time I might need 3G is in my car too and from work (1 hour per day), I plan on leaving the mifi in the car for emergency 3G use. I doubt I'll use more than 100mb per month. On wifi I probably exceed the 2.5gb... but who cares (and that's not throttled anyway). I hope VM comes out with some cheap paygo mifi plan to compete with Truconnect.... or just a cheap data plan for their phones... like $5/mo for 200mb. I'd stay!
Hey, if you could pay $10 for a Bonus Gigabyte (applied the sort of way Bonus Minutes are applied) would you really spend the dough? If you wanted true 3G anything, would you really get Virgin Mobile service?
Hey, if you could pay $10 for a Bonus Gigabyte (applied the sort of way Bonus Minutes are applied) would you really spend the dough? If you wanted true 3G anything, would you really get Virgin Mobile service?
Sent from my Wildfire S
I think that's where I should've probably clarified. For people like us on VM, 2.5gb on 256kbps doesn't matter squat. I'm more so baffled at the data caps for postpaid. For the price they're paying, it should be unlimited. And as I've said earlier, if VZW is offering 4G, they should set up a network that can accommodate all the traffic that follows. 4G isn't the dial-up of the 1990s; data gets used up super fast.
Throttle anymore? You mean slow them down below how fast they already are? You might want to read upon what throttling means. It just means they won't let your speeds go past 250kbps. A lot of us have speeds that are typically below that, so it doesn't affect us at all.
But I do agree: Raising the prices without improving the quality makes their value proposition more and more questionable for new customers. The $25/month unlimited pre-throttle was a steal. But with the phone line-up aging and people discovering GrooveIP, VM is no longer the only game in town.
I understand what throttling means, My speeds are well below that, (they seem throttled most of the time was my intended meaning) unless its 4-5 am, i cant even get a youtube vid to play. It is simply a matter of principle. You are right it does raise questions for new customers. They raised the price and didn't raise the bar, and now this. It will be interesting to see if virgin mobile may have shot themselves in the foot.
Im at the point of looking now at t-mobile's prepaid deal or straight talks new optimus 2x and seeing what network it may run on. Id like to utilize the web efficiently during normal hours.
Do you actually think the carriers are in this BUSINESS for OUR good graces? I make an analogy that data is like a drug and they are pushers. They introduce people to smartphones, get them addicted then jack up the prices.
That's getting into their game. Fine. Buy into it or not . They aren't particularly interested in coming up with a solution beyond lining their pockets. Their solutions include dumping overloads onto wifi, throttling, capping etc.
Those are the "solutions" we are offered by them at this time. That's life. But whether we choose to complain and bang our heads against the walls created by both the carriers by the plans they offer and the users themselves who let their usage skyrocket in growth compared to before or actually do something about it (using more wifi, putting on data watch apps, etc) is completely another.
I get your point exactly, the whole one to five percent gobbling up disproportionate data is a relatively old state. Of course it is that way, it usually is.
From a policy standpoint, the carriers, as arrogant as they may seem, will move when and if they are forced too. Till then, if one is to complain about such policies, I strongly suggest an email or other campaign on a mass level to actually do something to change the current policy stance they have.
I don't think it's reducible down to grade school multiplication and division.
Hate to burst your bubble, but you haven't made any new revelations.
I agree and don't think the customer on a 25.00 BT plan will renew early to reset data speeds.
Joining Verizon is out of the question also as most are paying 25.00 for a reason. Plus Verizon policies could change tomorrow.
I think the cap is long overdue and I'm glad it's coming. Now, just give users an improved network along with it so that the first 2.5GB are at acceptable speeds.
2.5 is fair... you will pay $30 for 2-3GB on AT&T/VZW alone, no minutes, no texts.
But I do hope they come up with a way to monitor your data usage online.
Is Boost doing this too? If not, it's just a matter of time.
But it would be nice to see the higher priced plans allow for more data too.
It still seems unfair (waah) because AT&T and Verizon are known for high prices... them charging $20-$30 seems like a bargain, considering they have better support than we do. (Of course, that's $20-30 on top of what they have to pay, but I digress.)
I don't think Boost is limiting data yet because they don't have to... they have just added three Android phones to their lineup (one available online-only, looks like) and they aren't known for being a premiere service for data users. That was Virgin Mobile's title until recently. Now that VM has conceded its title for cheap unlimited data, Boost might be next. Then the other Sprint-based prepaid companies out there (Net10, Cricket, etc)...
Bub, this is the trend, like it or not. It's inevitable. All I'm doing is sounding the alarm bell. People are coming to depend less on their in-home wifi. The typical American doesn't have enough disposal income to justify paying for two different internet services. More and more people I know these days are constantly traveling across multiple states for work. It's a new reality.
Seriously, stop shaping this in terms of morality. That rhetoric is just as bad the one being used by a certain brand of politicians and their followers who place the blame for our deficit problems on the poor. What I'd like to ask you to do is stop defending the corporations who play borderline bait and switch. Especially with the postpaid customers who're now on 4G. Why should anyone have to watch their data consumption if they're paying $100+/month for their plans? Don't you think their unwillingness to upgrade their towers to accommodate more traffic and their recent billion dollars in profits are hardly coincidental? Maybe you should be questioning whether the smartphone data market is too protected.
If the typical american doesn't have enough to pay for 2 internet services than they shouldn't. People need to live within their means. I'm no telecommunications expert, but it's obviously more expensive to keep and maintain a nationwide network. I agree that it's ridiculous to be spending 100+/mo for internet whether it's on your phone or for wifi, but that's how it is for now.
I think the problem was the way they introduced 4g. Maybe postpaids should have considered a market for 3g capped speeds (500kb/s) for people like me who only need internet on their phones for email/maps/web browsing/pandora. Then they could have separate 4g plans for people who plan on using it for things like tethering/video/etc....
Dose it even matter that there is an data cap I mean as it is there 3g is slow as hell, I picked up an v again just to see if the speeds are any better an nope, I am enjoying my 7 meg speed will never look back at vm again.
I think the problem was the way they introduced 4g. Maybe postpaids should have considered a market for 3g capped speeds (500kb/s) for people like me who only need internet on their phones for email/maps/web browsing/pandora. Then they could have separate 4g plans for people who plan on using it for things like tethering/video/etc....
That sounds a lot more reasonable. Again, I'm not out of touch with reality. The problem I see is LTE is only encouraging "abuse" within the common understanding of the word here. I'm also well aware that it costs money to implement this kind of technology. Things are fine as far as data caps are concerned, but if the carriers don't start increasing the monthly limits within the next few years, I can see problems cropping up. When you take into account the fact that desktop sales are slowing, laptop sales are almost constant and likely to fall gradually (though not to zero obviously), and tablet and smartphone sales are *rising,* you can see why I'm so concerned. Smartphones and tablets are displacing desktops and laptops to a limited extent. My sister's coworker has found himself using his DSL service at his home less and less since he's gotten his iPhone. It's weird even for me to fathom, but he finds his internet needs satisfied by the iPhone!
For us VM'ers, it's not a problem--for now. But I think one other issue we need to consider are new customers. As I earlier said, the value proposition was undermined when they raised the prices. Sure, a good chunk of VM customers are on the $25 plan. But those $25 plans aren't going to remain the majority of VM contracts; the proportion of people on that grandfathered plan relative to VM's customer base will decline as more people switch out for other plans and more people sign up for new contracts. Just how long do you think a 2.5gb/month data cap with 250kbps speed will remain viable?
The way I see it, VM is the coach of a basketball team who's relatively ahead and is buying time. He's called for a timeout and has instructed his key players to use data caps. This strategy involves doubling up on defense while refusing to make the necessary bold yet risky moves to increase the lead. This strategy might work, but if the other coach figures out this team's weaknesses and openings, VM will have to change tactics.
I might be getting way ahead. But once we start using phones to download and play 1080p films bought from your preferred online store on our friend's 60" TV, things are really only going to get crazier from here on out. The postpaid plans can eventually have to adapt to this trend, or they can just rely on a well protected market to keep progress at a glacial pace.
Originally Posted by cookedgoose
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