Nokia sells 'well over 1 million' Lumia's in Q4

[howard]

Nokia announced their Q4 results today. While no one's surprised they lost money it's interesting to see that they sold 'well over 1 million' Lumia's.

1 Million is a big number but a drop in the bucket when you consider how large the overall Smartphone market is. Google claims that over 700,000 Android devices are activated per day.

Still, you have to put Nokia's Windows Phones in perspective. They launched them around 6 months after they announced their partnership with Microsoft. Even if you assume that Nokia and Microsoft were working on a Windows Phone for a few months before the announcement (let's say 2 or 3 months), turning out a phone in 6-9 months is a pretty good turn-around.

It's a glass half-empty, half-full full scenario. On one hand, Nokia didn't sell that many Windows Phones. On the other hand they're just getting started. Hopefully this year will bring more interesting handsets which will stand out from other Windows Phone OEMs.

Personally I think the Lumia 800 and 900 boast the strongest industrial design out of all the current Windows Phones. They're the most unique and interesting looking of the current batch of Windows Phones (with HTC a close second).

One obstacle could be Microsoft's strict enforcement of the Windows Phone UI. While I think it's absolutely necessary for the success of Windows Phone it makes the Lumia 800, less Nokia-y, The HTC Titan, less HTC-y. Sticking Nokia Maps on a Windows Phone doesn't make it very Nokia like. The 800 is very Nokia on the outside but inside is a different story.

On the upside Microsoft is really depending on Nokia when it comes to the success of Windows Phone. The other big Windows Phone players are knee deep in Android. HTC has the Radar and the Titan on the Windows Phone side while on the Android they have the Raider, Amaze, Evo 3D, Status/ChaCha, Widefire S, Sensations, etc. Nokia is the only major Windows Phone player that doesn't do Android as well. It's in Microsoft's best interest to see Nokia do well.

Based on the modest gain in Nokia's stock after they announced earnings it seems investors are cautiously optimistic about Nokia's future. If I were to sum it up in a few words it would be: "It wasn't that bad".

[HC - NO "i"]

Fellow HC,

It is also interesting to know Microsoft has paid $250M in just a quarter to Nokia for making the WP ecosystem sustainable. On the other side, Nokia paid Microsoft back with "minimum royalty"... now no wonder Samsung, HTC, LG are nervous :-) Also the margin is getting lower with their handsets and could only dream on like the kind of margin with Apple iPhone.

[howard]

I don't think it would be possible for Nokia to get 'Apple margins' without their own OS.

Or should I say: I don't think it would be possible for Microsoft to get 'Apple margins' without becoming more vertically integrated.

[HC - NO "i"]

Fellow HC,



It looks like both need each other to be relevant in the unforgiving, ever changing, fast pace realm of IT.

[POLO_011]

I wonder what the actual sales of the Lumia phones is, as the 1million is what they have shipped to retailers, not actual customer sales.

[migo]

I wonder what the actual sales of the Lumia phones is, as the 1million is what they have shipped to retailers, not actual customer sales.

No, over 1 million is actual sales.

[HC - NO "i"]

migo,

Actual "sales" at everyday's lower price! The BOM of the Lumia 800 is about US$240 and 710 should be no more than $200, go figure the margin with those "over million units sold to date".

25000 units go to developers and 25000 units go to media / bloggosphere, billed as "sales" for the "marketing budget". Then incentives for customers (i.e. carriers, distributors, retail channels) with the 60-day term... If the inventories still remain in the warehouses, AND when the upcoming Lumia 900 or 910 come, see how deep the retail price cut would become like 710 at T-Mobile with a 3 year contract.

For the consumers (i.e. the subscribers, average Joe who do not want an iPhone, Android, BlackBerry, Symbian, Bada or whatever), there are also incentives like "test drive" for 40 days in the UK... http://www.lovemekeepme.com/ Just in time to get in love with the design, WP experience but yet decide not to keep the 800 because of the 900's arrival.

All could not be possible without the generous "rebate" from Microsoft

[KingBuzzo]

This is promising.

The more phones they get out there the better.

[Drillbit]

Nokia 'shipped' about over 19 million smartphones, also, and if you take the Windows Phone out, that's still a lot of Symbian phones. We're still looking at over an 18 to 1 ratio for Symbian vs. Windows Phone.

[fonezfonz]

I believe Nokia intends to keep Symbian around in their strong emerging countries markets (like India) while the first world countries get the good stuff (Winphone).

Frankly, all of the old school guys with the sole exception of struggling RIM has abandoned their old OS's whole cloth or gone under (HPalm/Web OS, MS/Windows Phone being replaced by Winphone, Symbian , etc...)

With Ios and Android controlling 90% of the smartphone marketshare in the US, we could use a strong number 3...and 4 and 5...lol

[go0gle]

^ are you implying that India is a 3-rd world country ?

Anyway, the fact that Elop "killed" Symbian a year ago, and its still selling.. is amazing. Also, there is no way all those Symbian users would switch to WP7, most of them will/are switching to android. So, Nokia will loose a lot of sales.. There is no way they will be able to replace all those Symbian sales with Wp7 sales. Yes, the US market will help big time, but.. overall no way.

I heard that they will be shipping only ONE new phone with Symbian this year.. that is just crazy.

[HC - NO "i"]

I wonder what the actual sales of the Lumia phones is, as the 1million is what they have shipped to retailers, not actual customer sales.

POLO_011,

Greetings.

A few weeks has gone by and I have looked beyond the surface. Nokia PR must be running out of creative ideas to fudge the numbers with their accounting dept. together these days. Even the Wall Street Journal needed to correct the misleading detail...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...567066290.html

... Nokia Corp. has sold more than one million of its new Windows-based Lumia handsets to date. A Marketplace article on Friday incorrectly stated the company had sold that amount in the fourth quarter.

So "to date" means 2012-01-26 here... and Lumia 800 went on sale in the UK on 2011-11-15, then four more countries on 2011-12-01. Lumia 710 was launched 2 weeks later. Therefore the actual sales in the Q4 2011 would be far fewer than a million units. Compares to the 4 million units of Symbian^3 handsets shipped a year ago in the Q4 2010, this round is much worse.

Many people think they can simply rely on the analysts here and there. But accurate interpretation of the real situation requires more than just English proficiency. Take what defines "actual sales" for example, "customers" in the context of handset manufacturers are NOT the "consumers" like you and me! They are carriers, distributors, retailers in the distribution channels, not us at the point-of-sales. Some may wonder if inventory keeps stockpiling in the warehouse, then why there have been "sold-out" at some retailers?

Ever wonder with the box office trend of the Star Trek movies (not the reboot, but the original and TNG franchise)? The first 2 weeks would often be Top 3 in the US, then a month later it would be off the radar after most loyal Trekkers and Sci-Fi movie bluffs have paid for their obligatory rituals. Similarly, there are still die-hard Nokia and cellphone-whores like myself would gotta have it in the first few days and weeks. After that, it will tapper off for certain. Business owners are not passionate fans, being nostalgic, or get any brand loyalty! They know what things sell - sell sustainably well. Unfortunately, Nokia handsets are no longer in this position. These days are Samsung, Apple, HTC and LG. Therefore, the stock-keeping strategy would not be the same with other popular makes and models. In many cases, they will not even restock to occupy the shelves and storage spaces but to simply leave it as back-order status.

Pairing with the promotions and rapid price cuts I have mentioned earlier in this thread, Nokia seems like begging people to try it out - with the help of Microsoft. It is just sad to the iconic brand faltering.

[HC - NO "i"]

^ are you implying that India is a 3-rd world country ?

Anyway, the fact that Elop "killed" Symbian a year ago, and its still selling.. is amazing. Also, there is no way all those Symbian users would switch to WP7, most of them will/are switching to android. So, Nokia will loose a lot of sales.. There is no way they will be able to replace all those Symbian sales with Wp7 sales. Yes, the US market will help big time, but.. overall no way.

I heard that they will be shipping only ONE new phone with Symbian this year.. that is just crazy.

go0gle,

Greetings.

Even the so-called "3rd world" or "emerging" markets are increasingly moving on with the cookie-cutter feature phones from other manufacturers like Huawei, ZTE and some no-name brands powered by MTK. So long S30 and S40! They will transform to Smarterphone and Meltemi. As for the Symbian refugees, not only they will consider Android more than WP, but there are more and more affordable models to choose from. It undercuts the competitiveness and margins of the S60 models, regardless how many units shipped.

As for the US market, Symbian has never been as popular as it was in the rest of the world. Now, even RIM has got BlackBerry once stitched to the corporate world, but begins to lose grounds to Android and iOS. Go figure, what kind of uphill battle Microsoft and Nokia must engage in.

[KingBuzzo]

or...Tango is released with 135 language support for the tird-world - makes all the other no-name brands look as bad as android does now...

Then they release a half-dozen superphones that they didn't rush-out the door that are Apollo capable and the same interface as Windows 8, Xbox v.next, and WOA...

[POLO_011]

go0gle,

Greetings.

Even the so-called "3rd world" or "emerging" markets are increasingly moving on with the cookie-cutter feature phones from other manufacturers like Huawei, ZTE and some no-name brands powered by MTK. So long S30 and S40! They will transform to Smarterphone and Meltemi. As for the Symbian refugees, not only they will consider Android more than WP, but there are more and more affordable models to choose from. It undercuts the competitiveness and margins of the S60 models, regardless how many units shipped.

As for the US market, Symbian has never been as popular as it was in the rest of the world. Now, even RIM has got BlackBerry once stitched to the corporate world, but begins to lose grounds to Android and iOS. Go figure, what kind of uphill battle Microsoft and Nokia must engage in.

^ +1 This!! and g0ogle's post.

Glad to see more people being realistic