Is it really fine to buy used Tmobile phones from deliquent accounts?
Okay, Thought it was safe until doing some research and finding this great side.
Here is the issue,
My neighbor just claimed bankrupcy on Tmobile as well as his other creditors. He has went to Verizon before the BK so he now has 5 Smartphones. 3 Sensations and 2 Galaxy 2 units.
He is selling them to neighbors with Tmobile. I am going to (or was) buying 2 of the Sensations for 100 bucks a piece. Great deal.
I called Tmobile and was completely honest with them. I also walked into the tmobile corp store as well today. I got the same exact answer from both.
I told them I am buying 2 phones that have a balance. I asked them if it was true I need only purchase an Activation kit with Sim card from them to activate these phones for me.
There exact quote was," We do not EVER turn a phone off based on the phone. We turn off the Sim card only sir" Then I asked will I be safe. They both said that all I have to do is activate the new sim card on a a prepay or contract pay and the phone irregardless of its past will be activated. They said the only down side is I will have no insurance on them.
So I bought the two activation kits today and am prepared to purchase the two phones tonight.
Then I read a thread here saying Tmobile will block all phones that have been on bad accounts and therfore may block the IMEI (?) on the two phones based on what I found here? Why is Tmobile themselves not telling me this? Will they really block these phones with old balance. One of them has never been used as he upgraded and its still fresh in box. Is Tmobile lying to me? How are all the folks (some I am sure if not lots) with tmobile phones selling them on Craigslist and Ebay. Who is correct here? Am I safe to purchase these phones?
Yes, and I just did this last night with mine from my G2. It worked fine. My fear is a month down the line they get blacklisted. I just called Tmobile again and again was told they do not block phones for balance owed. After reading this forum I asked her if they block IMEI for phones that people may bave not paid for or had bad accounts. She said in 8 years she only sees this on stolen phones on a handful of occasions. Of course she tried to sell me phones by telling me I will get no warrenty yada yada. I told her as a 9 year Tmobile customer I am holding her (got her id) to her statement that used phones are safe in regards to activation. She said FINE SIR you will have no issue on phone use as long as you are current on your bill.
I wonder if the one gentlemen with the large post about his used Galaxy might have been one of those rare occasions. I have searched high and low and only find him and one other person with a Touch from CL saying they had blacklisted phones. In fact there is at thread on Tmobile support forum with a link to a San Francisco Chronicle new article dated Dec 4th 2011 all about USA NOT blocking IMEI numbers EVER and how Australia and Canada do and how the big 3 using sim card carriers here in USA wanting the customer more then caring about blocking a stolen phone. So mabye its hogwash they block IMEI. Just not wanting to lose 200 bucks.
I know you posted in the other thread regarding IMEI blocking, so let me clarify the specific case when they do block.
They have a plan that allows you to basically finance a phone over a 20 month period. If a person does not make all of the payments, they have been blacklisting the IMEI numbers.
The reps you talk to may not be aware of this policy as T-Mobile doesn't really publish it. The reps are correct in saying that T-Mobile does not blacklist a device just because someone has an unpaid bill. It's only when the unpaid bill is the monthly payment for the device.
If the person your buying the device from did not make monthly device payments you should be good to go.
I was so frustrated that I took another trip to talk with actual store manager of the corp Tmo store here in WA. I explained my risk and he was nice enough to call an activation tech level 2 supervisore with me with store. Here is what Chris told me.
1. It is true that in very rare cases they block IMEI numbers. He said it is not due to default in general on the old style 3 payment equiptment plans or new 20 payment plans defaulting. He said it also must be thought to be the accounts were secured by possible fraud like a bad check was written or a stolen credit card for them to even block those IMEI numbers. He said most payment plan accounts that do not complete are not blocked.
2. You can not call and have IMEI blocked as an end user with TMO here in USA. However TMO may block at there choice when you call in to report but do not as a rule. He said stolen lots of phones are almost ALWAYS blocked for no use as part of a Loss prevention investigation and to assist police.
3. Phones simply with bad balance are not ever blocked as long as the accounts were not just opened and phones secured by bad checks, stolen credit cards ect.
So simply put he said if forums are saying TMO is now blocking IMEI due to anyting other then stolen phones or phones secured by fraud. They are not blocking IMEIs. He did say there has been talk for years of stepping up blockage for other reasons. However as of now they are not.
He said it makes more sense to allow other buyers of used phones or defunct account phones to activate them as it creates cash flow to TMO that they would otherwise not have made.
He also said the reason they DO NOT block IMEI is that the company goes after the default user for early term fees.
A couple questions the TMO manager asked him and I will mention are good to as follows,
1. What if a customer gets a free or cheap upgrade of there phone and stays with old phone and uses the upgraded phone to make money and sell on CL or EB. He said that is up to the end user as they own the phone as they met the upgrade ability whether they choose too use it or now. He did say though that the buyer of the new phone on CL that was just upgraded may have an issue if they try and activate it as the IMEI number is still active as it was just activated on the buyers account. However buyers can activate by using any unused TMO phone to activate and then replace that sim card in the phone they bought.
2. What is user knows they are going to go bad and has only 2 phones on account and adds 3 free android type add a line phones and then sells them and goes bad on his or her account. See above he said, they could still buy them an use.
So I guess I am safe and most are still safe buying TMO phones new or used on Craigslist or EBay as long as they were not reported stolen or were aquired by fraud on a payment plan or full purchase.
You're trying to put what some store manager says out there as fact. However read the imei blocking thread. Each person who bought a used device and it wouldn't work was told the same thing. They were not told that the device was stolen are obtained via fraud. They were told that the original account holder had not paid for the device and they would need to call in and settle up before the device could be released.
Furthermore this was also confirmed by a tmobile customer service rep who has a long history of posting accurate info in this forum.
The fact that a manager is not informed about this going on shows more wrongdoing by tmobile for not getting the word out.
You're trying to put what some store manager says out there as fact. However read the imei blocking thread. Each person who bought a used device and it wouldn't work was told the same thing. They were not told that the device was stolen are obtained via fraud. They were told that the original account holder had not paid for the device and they would need to call in and settle up before the device could be released.
Furthermore this was also confirmed by a tmobile customer service rep who has a long history of posting accurate info in this forum.
The fact that a manager is not informed about this going on shows more wrongdoing by tmobile for not getting the word out.
Well first off I mean no dissprespect to anyone here. I simply am spreading what was a very informative attempt for a level 2 activation supervisor explanation. I am a corporate regional manager and trained in loss prevention and interigations. I am very confident by the verbage and directness of answers that Chris knew also what he was talking about.
I also saw the post you mention and it was only a couple people claiming that. In all the other forums and answers I found only 1 other and that might have been one of the posters here. So again, I do not think there is a flood of proof of this. Could one or the other be right or both partially so. Maybe. I thank you for your reply and we will just wait for some more evidence or possible input from Tmobile. This is not a secret subject as Chris said. They will tell you the policy of thier dept.
Reminds me of about 6 or 7 years ago when I had a vz phone that I bought. Eventually loaned it to a friend who ended up not paying vz. When I got the phone back it was blocked for use. I explained to vz how I was the one who bought it but they wouldn't budge until friend paid them what was owed.
I am a corporate regional manager and trained in loss prevention and interigations. I am very confident by the verbage and directness of answers that Chris knew also what he was talking about.
Let me remind you, that you were the one that came on here and asked the question. I provided you an answer based on the information available. Now you want to come back and tell people that they were mistaken about what they heard T-Mobile say as to why their device wouldn't work. The facts are that there are devices that people obtained that do not work and that T-Mobile will not activate.
Here's another thread about someone who was told that the original owner needed to settle his account before he could use the phone he purchased:
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I think this is another case where the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. I've seen this before at T-mobile. I'm guessing that the fraud employees don't always divulge every bit of information to other departments. Most companies' security and fraud departments are secretive. It's part of what makes them successful.
Jet, I have a rigtht to as another consumer and expert in the field I am in to research to the full extent and post my findings to help others. You seem to think with a high post count you are more important then others here. I come to that conclusion by reading other post from you. In fact you yourself on on of the other post you include were defending that TMO did NOT block IMEI!
Now, you may want to go back and read those 3. Again 2 of those post are directly same poor gentleman with the Galaxy he got scammed off CL. In fact I have found his post on 5 forums including the Tmobile forum. Read his post. He was told they phone was blacklisted and it sounds like it was stolen. They have said they will block some stolen phones. Or the owner called in and reported it stolen. I forgot to include another thing the leval 2 sup told us was a common scam on CL is that the person will sell there phones on a bad account and then report them stolen to get out of part of the agreement. I can cut and paste that portioin of TMO agreement if you would like. He said this is getting very common as TMO has been more aggresive with collections and the word on the street has spread to report stolen. The issue is then it may get blacklisted and not useable. Not saying this is what happened. However its an educated guess now from my investigations.
The other 2009 post is the other person I told you about the only other I have found reporting this. If you read he too is saying this phone may bave been stolen. Again we know stolen phones may be the only way blacklisted.
Now for the Tmobile csr response. Again, this was supported by the level 2 sup in activations. He said they did block some EIP. Now he says for fraud not for non payment.
I also did not mention, the sup also said the reason TMO will never block the IMEI of a phone on a default balance owed non fraud account is that the phone belongs to the customer. He said no matter the price. When the customer pays either from FREE to the moon for new phone and or upgrades or added lines. The only thing they are liable for is the early term fees and balance on account. In EVERY case the phone belongs to the customer and TMO has no legal right to block IMEI. I found this on TMO forum as well.
So the ONLY way we know know that an IMEI can possibly be blocked is from a phone stolen and blocked at TMO discretion and or POSSIBLY a phone on old EIP or now value payment plan. I think the only thing we can do now is to wait for some more reports other them mine or the one paragraph from the TMO csr here (not dispresecting them) and or some more valid cases posted here or other forums. I know your trying to drive home your point. However your 3 links above do nothing to do that. I can post hundreds saying they dont EVER block IMEI.
In fact here is the article stating none of the USA carriers of this type do.
Dispute this if you may Mr. Jet in all fairness.
again, I have resect for this very nice forum. You have great information. However as every forum some people think post count reflects the bottom line in discussions. I polietly have furnished what very good FACTS I could gather. Could it be all wrong. Yes we could all be wrong. However I have produced more facts.
As for the Fraud dept. We too have a major Fraud dept at our company. A major Satellite company. One thing that would not be hidden is procedure for potential customers to lose money and be angry with our company for buying on blackmarket. WE have a full disclosure letting our customers know the factual risk involved.
TMobile would do the same. They on there PREPAiD page have a 3inch icon pushing bring your own phone and buy and activation kit. They would have a disclosure warning about buying used phones that maybe not usuable. The only disclosure is that other carriers phones may not work on there system. They may be a consfused company in some areas like at the stores. However there legal team I am sure is not confused and would not risk the embarrasment of forum posts and time to deal with this if a simple disclosure would protect them from any retro effect.
So I will say I am confident the information I provided is closest to the truth.
The easy thing I guess it to call if buying a phone and ask if its on a payment plan. THey will tell you this. If its not you have nothing to worry about. If it is I still think you dont but proceed with caution till more is known.
THanks all for your time. I will monitor and add if I find out more. No need to argue. Its not in good forum rule or context.
You seem to think with a high post count you are more important then others here. I come to that conclusion by reading other post from you..
I have NEVER stated that I am more important than others here. This is something that you completely made up. Furthermore it has nothing to do with discussing the topic at hand. If you want to start into personal attacks then you should really find another place to do it.
In fact you yourself on on of the other post you include were defending that TMO did NOT block IMEI!
Of course I think that T-Mobile should not block an IMEI. This is no secret. All it does is cause grief to the people that have ended up with blocked devices. It actually harms loyal, good paying customers of T-Mobile who may end up buying a device and does nothing to help T-Mobile and may end up harming T-Mobile further by angering customers who may take their business elsewhere.
Furthermore T-Mobile does not warn their customers of this blocking. They do not give their customers an easy way to check out their devices to make sure they will work before they buy. They have no place on their website that describes what their policy is. Their employees regularly give conflicting stories about what the policy is. T-Mobile faults on this subject are many.
I can post hundreds saying they dont EVER block IMEI.
If there are hundreds of such posts, then by your own investigation, you would know them to be false as some blocking does occur.
In fact here is the article stating none of the USA carriers of this type do.
Dispute this if you may Mr. Jet in all fairness.
I can't dispute what I can't read. Both links are bad.
The first link says:
Server Error in Application "CWS6504"
The second link says:
Item Not Found
The article or page you requested was not found. If this link was sent to you via e-mail or posted on another website, it was probably incorrectly formatted.
However as every forum some people think post count reflects the bottom line in discussions.
Another attack that has nothing to do with the topic. My experience has been that people in this forum with high post counts are generally extremely helpful and polite.
The easy thing I guess it to call if buying a phone and ask if its on a payment plan. THey will tell you this.
This is false information. They will not give any information about whether a device is on a payment plan because that's private customer account information.
First off Mr,.Jet. If I have touched on a nerve or you feel insulted I am sorry. However as an Admin on one of the largest satellite tv forums and Mod on 2 others, I see your kind all day long. Lots of post means some think they carry a big stick.
I simply came here with a question. At the time admittedly you were an expert in this field and I was looking for answers. Then I became an expert with going at every avenue including multi forum reads, talking live to persons and going up the level with depts within Tmobile. Yet you respond like I am a newbie and just because you say so I am wrong in all the backwork I have done to help myself and others here.
Then you put another poster here, a TMO csr as gospel as they in your words are "Respected here" vs. not 1 but 3 managers and a tier 2 supervisor of the exact dept that handles this. Blowing my info off or attempting too. So I am going to and did repond in your fashion back to you. If your going to know it all, be open to other people that are trying to help you know even more.
I never said I was perfect in my now understanding of muddy waters in regards to all of Tmobiles policys.
What I did was promote what I beleive is the closest to fact based on my learnings and evidence I have found online. You give me 2 people vs. hundreds and TMO people saying the opposite. No I did not know this when I posed the question. However I can prove it now. So if you take that as offensive. Its not. ITs sharing what I have learned with hard work over the past 2 days now.
As for Tmobile policy. It is written. It clearly protects them as it says they have a right to disable any phone for any reason. Of course our company does that as well. Its lawyers covering the company backside.
However they are promoting use of used phones on there webpage. They would not do this if the norm was to disable many used phones. What is appears from all of this is we all agree that STOLEN phones are most likely going to be blocked.
What I have proved is that we know old balance account phones are owned by the account holder regardless of the history of account or non payment and are never blocked.
What we will agree to disagree on until more is known is if any part large or small of non payed payment plan phones are subject to being locked. From what I am told they are not. You have 2 posters and one csr saying they are. We will continue to learn here. Yes it would be great if we could get a LP or Fraud dept manager to let us post a policy. I have a call in to Bellevue WA TMO office to see if they will email there name, dept and policy to lay this to bed. Then there will be no room to get in petty he said , she said when in the end we are just trying to help each other.
As for calling the phone in and privacy. I was told they will not give any account information, however they will let you know if phone is CLEAR for purchase is the words Chris used. Must be work around to privacy. If someone would like to try or I will we can see if this works.
You are well read and spoken. I did not try to offend you.
Is it really fine to buy used Tmobile phones from deliquent accounts?
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Originally Posted by jet1000
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