Motorola DROID RAZR HD XT926 "Vanquish" Pre-Release Thread

[Ark6]

It would have been nice if this was released instead of the RAZR. This device has the battery of the MAXX, almost as slim (and has a similar form factor) as the RAZR, the screen of the Nexus, and probably the same internals as the RAZR/Bionic/D4.

So unless this phone has 28NM chips (for better battery life), what's the point of releasing this phone?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[FAUguy]

Remember the Razr model in China has an HD screen and higher MP camera, so it's not a big leap from that.
What I'd like to know is why the China version wasn't released in the US to begin with (with US radio bands).

Most electronics get new models every year (TVs, cameras, camcorders, etc) and even cars.....but this 4-5 month "new model cycle" on phones is a bit silly. Someone that buys the latest phone with a 2 year contract now, then goes to update it 2 years has a phone that is 6 models old.

[tjmonkey15]

.....but this 4-5 month "new model cycle" on phones is a bit silly. Someone that buys the latest phone with a 2 year contract now, then goes to update it 2 years has a phone that is 6 models old.

I agree. I like the way Samsung is doing it with their Galaxy S line of phones. Annoying that every carrier's version is different, but that is most likely the carriers' fault, not Samsung's. Sammy still releases a lot of junk phones too though, but I guess the mid and low-end markets sill exist too.

[jasaero]

I agree. I like the way Samsung is doing it with their Galaxy S line of phones. Annoying that every carrier's version is different, but that is most likely the carriers' fault, not Samsung's. Sammy still releases a lot of junk phones too though, but I guess the mid and low-end markets sill exist too.

This is basic marketing, product planning, and engineering/design, not rocket science. And Samsung is really an inferior model compared to Apple. There is ZERO reason a Samsung or Motorola couldn't have been to the extreme PPI levels of the retina displays for phones and tablets before Apple.

The problem is that they(Samsung, Moto, and the rest) need commodity components because they don't plan things around massive volume from very concise product lines using lots of the same components as much as possible. iPhone 4, 4S, and iPod touch all use the very same display. iPhone 4 and the new iPad use the same camera sensor. You have 2 products total(not counting previous gen left in production) to cover the smartphone and tablet markets.

Realign ANY android centric OEM around this sort of minimized product line, but don't scale back R&D or other product development budgets. Then suggest they use the extra resources to go and lock down any components they might want before others can get access to said components and you could have better products with longer lifespans in the market place. Samsung has ZERO excuses as they are a supplier to most all the components they need for a smartphone. Motorola has ZERO excuses because they are no different than Apple in most respects other than marketing and product planning confidence and foresight.

Motorola shows signs of doing some of these things as well as Apple. There seems to be bean counting getting in the way of offering the BEST and ONLY the BEST though when it comes to their highest level devices. This is obvious in their choice of displays. COST is the ONLY reason the MOST IMPORTANT part of the sort of devices Motorola designs is not the BEST available on the market. They do all the rest at or near the best even going so far as trying to build the thinnest and most high end material device, but then sacrifice on the part of the device we interact with the MOST and which is probably the MOST expensive component used and most invested in by their most powerful competitor.

I purchased the OG Droid largely because it was VERY unique in the display that was acquired for it. I was just recently messing with it again and realized it would probably be a better display than my Galaxy Nexus if it were the same or slightly better PPI, but more around the size of the GNex display in size. It's only weakness is it's size. What I find even more silly is that the iPhone probably needs this extreme PPI less than Android in that it's software is designed very much to consume iThing specific content. Android is a lot more content agnostic with stuff like flash and full web be much more accessible and desirable. So it really kind of silly that Apple is the one maintaining this advantage that they are able to maintain mostly due to a concise product line that allows more to be invested in this most important component and then allows for longer product life cycles because the initial product was stronger in the first place.

It all seems like such basic concepts that I really thought Motorola was onto when I first started hearing about the behind the scenes things that had went down that lead to the OG Droid. They ditched everything but Android, focused most efforts into making this early android device as correct as possible. It really sounded like they had canned a lot of stuff to focus on Android stuff. I though that was going to mean concise line up of devices that would mature proper like in proper timeframe from one gen to the next. Then the Droid X and Droid 2 happened and I lost all hope in them. Droid X was pretty good being a different type of device, but seemed to take a step back in material and design(not as metal and physical buttons). The Droid 2 totally dashed my hopes for them though as it was too soon and too minor of an update. It should have been the Droid 3, but with a better display and launch somewhere between Droid 2 and Droid 3 which probably could have happened if it were one device rather than two.

Most people are on 2 year contracts anyhow so why not target generational changes on that cadence and make each upgrade more significant. Don't have a Droid X LINE and a Droid Bionic and a Droid RAZR and a Droid RAZR Maxx and a Droid Fighter?? that are all the same device effectively and available at the same time. The OG Droid line was atleast a better planned generational line even though it should probably only be on Droid 2 or maybe 3 with a new one not far off.

Ok, sorry for the long rant. I really am a bit bitter that I was SO excited about my OG Droid and Motorola's future in general back then and nothing even remotely exciting has happened since even though there's been a crap ton of new devices since. I wouldn't be SO annoyed if it weren't for the fact I feel my Droid has the best display on a Motorola to date and that is the MOST important component in these devices. Oh well, love my Galaxy Nexus until something better from someone comes.

[TC_Mits]

Is the Vanquish and Droid Fighter the same, or two separate phones?
There seems to be some confusion on that part.

"That is the question."

Same conquering hero theme, though.

Perspective instantiates reality.
( By DX w/HoFo app. )

[TC_Mits]

Is this this phone?

http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/19/n...ts-ca/?m=false

Hard to be sure from the angle of the shot, but this one looks even wider - and just plain bigger - than the RAZRs.

Perspective instantiates reality.
( By DX w/HoFo app. )

[fone sex]

Is this this phone?

http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/19/n...ts-ca/?m=false

That is not the phone I saw

[mahers]

That is not the phone I saw

I think what you meant to say was, "These aren't the Droids you're looking for."

[jasaero]

That is not the phone I saw

Not sure that is good news?? Guess we're still getting the shotgun product development approach then. Last year JUST for VZW we had X2, Bionic, and RAZR that were all essentially the same device. Wonder how many we will get this year? Maybe we can go for a new record number of dual core 4.3" devices for EVERY carrier! Now that's a plan!

So Vanquish/X3 is what compared to the monster device in my link? Why not just keep RAZR and kill X line all together when you add this bigger VZW device?? They have to have a cheaper than RAZR device that's the same otherwise to go along with this bigger than RAZR one?? I want to understand the thinking and reason for new devices and lines from the new Moto leadership SOON!!

[TC_Mits]

...
I want to understand the thinking and reason for new devices and lines from the new Moto leadership SOON!!

How about this:

We have a hurried half-hearted hack at all the phones we could or should make and do it as quickly as possible. But we screw up the design or the marketing so they're not all that good, like the Bionic, or nobody ever hears about them, like the D4. Or maybe we hold them, like forever, til the tech ages and the thrill dies, like the GNex and the D4.

Then, when all of them fail, we can point at each one and say, 'We already tried that and it didn't work.'

That way we can get back to what really turns us on: making iPhone clones -- like the RAZRs.

Perspective instantiates reality.
( By DX w/HoFo app. )

[jasaero]

How about this:

We have a hurried half-hearted hack at all the phones we could or should make and do it as quickly as possible. But we screw up the design or the marketing so they're not all that good, like the Bionic, or nobody ever hears about them, like the D4. Or maybe we hold them, like forever, til the tech ages and the thrill dies, like the GNex and the D4.

So, when all of them fail, we can point at each one and say, 'We already tried that and it didn't work.'

Then we can get back to what really turns us on: making iPhone clones -- like the RAZRs.

Perspective instantiates reality.
( By DX w/HoFo app. )

I just want a proclamation of some vision out of this new leadership. We never really got that with Sanjay Jah, but the move to all android was a good direction. This move alone is why I am now a bigger fan of Moto than HTC or Samsung, even though I have ended up with a Samsung. It's also a move that I think lead to the current buyout. Now we need some sorta further narrowed and focused vision for their future. You would kinda think some of Apples competitors would get a clue about how many devices are needed when they are all getting schooled head to head by a company that KILLS them with TWO devices to their god knows how many EACH??

Sure Android is getting ahead of Apple overall, but there is ZERO reason a singular Android OEM couldn't challenge Apple one on one, head to head, and such. It's not going to happen with 3-6 tablets and lord knows how many phones all for sale at once to apples tablet and phone though! It's not helping when you have someone like HTC announce a more unified branding called One that is created from day one with THREE devices??? Apple people were obviously laughing at that. It's called One, but they probably blew the same R&D budget to ready the launch as Apple did for iPhone 3G all the way thru 4S. So even if one of these guys matched Apple on sales and revenue, they would still get schooled big time on profits.

[jbannach]

I see the only way "one" Android OEM can challenge Apple is by not being a public company (another way is being Samsung...). Maybe Motorola can be that company with the GOOG buyout. You have to save all your innovations/supply chain buys for one phone and that is impossible if you have to make your numbers every quarter. Otherwise your stock tanks and your credit rating goes to the dump making capital hard to get/tough to run business/path to bankruptcy. Google themselves could also one-up your preciously planned Hero phone(s) with their yearly Nexus phone. Pretty risky for a public "phone" company to rely on only Android Hero phones.

Currently you can say Motorola's real competition is not really APPLE but other Android OEMs so you have to compare their business practices/phone releases with HTC/Samsung.
Unfortunately if you are not releasing something all the time in the Android world, you will be quickly forgotten/surpassed/obsoleted/copied. That is far worse from running a business perspective. Let's face it, your Android phone only has a shelf life of 3 months (but it should be good to USE for longer)...would you worry about upsetting your current customers (who are locked in contracts and see new phones from other OEMs anyway), or have something to sell to NEW customers...cause for sure no one is buying your 3 month old Android phone.
Obviously no one else can release an IOS phone so it is not fair to compare Android OEMs with Apple.

Apple's model doesn't work for MOT/HTC/Samsung, another reason is carriers. They demand something unique for themselves and well as a "portfolio" to suit different prices/consumers. If you don't have that qwerty for VZW someone else will and that will also make the next sales pitch to/support from VZW harder.
They're less likely to support your Hero phones if you don't support them. You could say, hey we are rolling all innovation/spec upgrades to our Hero Android phone(s) this year, take it or leave it...well you better be Apple or have 100 billion dollars in the bank because 1) Verizon is not going take a chance on your bet to "roll everything in/catch up to eveyone/innovate/go all in" on just your Hero phone(s) 2) other carriers will be pissed if it is special and they didn't get it 3) if you also sell it to other carriers, it better be the iphone because then forgot about Verizon/ATT spending one cent marketing/subsidizing your Hero phone or promoting your phone in stores.

In summary, I agree that Motorola or whoever should make less phones and more "Hero" phones but it is very risky bet (hard to forecast if it will still be considered "amazing/innovative" 1-2 years in the future) and there is immense pressure when you are a public company solely in the phone biz and not releasing products to meet the quarter. And watch out for that yearly Nexus from your "partner" Google who the "hardcore" consider the TRUE hero phone.
Amazon may have done what you're thinking with the Kindle but note that they are not a phone company (they sell Kindles at a loss to sell content/books). Don't compare any Android OEM to Apple, Apple IS special, no Android OEM can just copy Apple's business model and expect to be Apple. Android is the PC business but with the added complexity of carriers and Google's whims. Unfortunately winning in Android is more about scale, distribution, and vertical integration (like Samsung) than it is about having "One" hero phone to go against Apple. Yes, Samsung has the Galaxy line but you could argue its tremendous success was because of scale (buy/access components early/cheaper), distribution (worldwide launches), and vertical integration (SAMOLED, Exynos)...and not "innovation" or being a really special/unique Hero phone.

I just want a proclamation of some vision out of this new leadership. We never really got that with Sanjay Jah, but the move to all android was a good direction. This move alone is why I am now a bigger fan of Moto than HTC or Samsung, even though I have ended up with a Samsung. It's also a move that I think lead to the current buyout. Now we need some sorta further narrowed and focused vision for their future. You would kinda think some of Apples competitors would get a clue about how many devices are needed when they are all getting schooled head to head by a company that KILLS them with TWO devices to their god knows how many EACH??

Sure Android is getting ahead of Apple overall, but there is ZERO reason a singular Android OEM couldn't challenge Apple one on one, head to head, and such. It's not going to happen with 3-6 tablets and lord knows how many phones all for sale at once to apples tablet and phone though! It's not helping when you have someone like HTC announce a more unified branding called One that is created from day one with THREE devices??? Apple people were obviously laughing at that. It's called One, but they probably blew the same R&D budget to ready the launch as Apple did for iPhone 3G all the way thru 4S. So even if one of these guys matched Apple on sales and revenue, they would still get schooled big time on profits.

[TC_Mits]

...
Let's face it, your Android phone only has a shelf life of 3 months (but it should be good to USE for longer)... ...cause for sure no one is buying your 3 month old Android phone. ...

The RAZR was first available in late October last year, almost five months ago. It's successor is not yet visible. With effective marketing, it keeps selling anyway.


.

Obviously no one else can release an IOS phone so it is not fair to compare Android OEMs with Apple.
Apple's model doesn't work for MOT/HTC/Samsung, ...
... Don't compare any Android OEM to Apple, Apple IS special, no Android OEM can just copy Apple's business model and expect to be Apple. Android is the PC business but with the added complexity of carriers.

Which is why it is so dumb for Moto -- probably at vzw's insistence? -- to keep trying to make its offerings more and more like the iPhone.

If you want to be a star, not an also ran, you must have your own unique persona. I've said before, a singer who can "sound like the stars" is a lounge rat.

The idiotic copycat non-removable battery is a case in point. Some Android types were buying Motos because the battery offered more flexibility. How many doesn't matter, this is only one example. Now, iPhone is back on a level playing field for those buyers.
And for those who always liked this iPhone feature, Android gained very little -- if anything at all -- because they still like the iPhone they have and another phone a little bit like it is no real incentive to change from what you have now, know, and are comfortable with.

If Android is to succeed it must do so on its own unique merits -- by being better in some ways -- NOT by copying the Apple model. You can't be 'just like' and 'better than' at the same time. One thing we all do seem to agree on is that Apple is doing a pretty good job of being Apple.


Perspective instantiates reality.
( By DX w/HoFo app. )

[jasaero]

The RAZR was first available in late October last year, almost five months ago. It's successor is not yet visible. With effective marketing, it keeps selling anyway.


.

Which is why it is so dumb for Moto -- probably at vzw's insistence? -- to keep trying to make its offerings more and more like the iPhone.

If you want to be a star, not an also ran, you must have your own unique persona. I've said before, a singer who can "sound like the stars" is a lounge rat.

The idiotic copycat non-removable battery is a case in point. Some Android types were buying Motos because the battery offered more flexibility. How many doesn't matter, this is only one example. Now, iPhone is back on a level playing field for those buyers.
And for those who always liked this iPhone feature, Android gained very little -- if anything at all -- because they still like the iPhone they have and another phone a little bit like it is no real incentive to change from what you have now, know, and are comfortable with.

If Android is to succeed it must do so on its own unique merits -- by being better in some ways -- NOT by copying the Apple model. You can't be 'just like' and 'better than' at the same time. One thing we all do seem to agree on is that Apple is doing a pretty good job of being Apple.


Perspective instantiates reality.
( By DX w/HoFo app. )

Yeah. Not saying they should have only 2 devices a phone and tablet or that those devices should be ANYTHING like Apples. My point is they need FAR fewer devices and they need to be developed to last better in the market before needing subsequent upgrades. There is zero reason a really well done and supply chain savvy component use device can't last well over a year on the market. The only thing that has made that difficult this last year has been the transition to devices using LTE. And really being the last Android vendor with an LTE device, but being well before Apple wouldn't be bad and is technically what Moto did more or less. And they STILL don't have LTE on AT&T. Yet they do ALWAYS have new devices hitting. And being last they may as well have just canned Bionic VERY EARLY and went with RAZR since they hit so close.

And I am really not sure developing an LTE modem was a smart move AT ALL? Unless maybe you plan to goto ARM and start making SOC designs you will integrate it into also. That would put you a step ahead of Apple and on more level ground with Samsung. I say this because I think going forward SOCs with integrated modems that only Samsung as an OEM has vertical capability for will be a necessity to survive. Qualcomm and nVidia are pushing toward such highly integrated very top end SOCs eventually that Intel and the rest pushing this market will have to go that direction also. Hardly anyone buys a very high end computer anymore as it's only needed for very specific uses. In the smartphone realm I think those very specialized use scenarios will be even more rare as extremely integrated cheap and efficient devices reach a certain performance level. As that happens building your own chip that can pull in decent data rates a mile or so past where the commodity competitor that is an over all better device lost it's connection won't get you volume customers in the biggest markets where those volumes are at.

All that is just a side point related to putting massive efforts into early LTE devices really though. Apple has been smart to wait on LTE in this respect, but in the longer term they NEED to acquire a modem capability to integrate into the Ax SOC's at some point. They have the cash, so I am sure that's coming. Motorola need to become a complete SOC developer or get out of modem business. Mostly though there is a HUGE need to become a more focused company with less shotgun R&D and more clear product plans and generational development of clearly defined products. It doesn't have to be two and there would be room for a couple screen sizes and keyboards or no. But NONE of them should be dictated by carriers. A tweak here or there might be fine and will be required from a radio/modem/network stand point, but what the device is and what it will be replaced by MUST be fully decided by Moto going forward. They HAVE to become an OEM instead of being a generic device supplier. Right now Apple is the ONLY real OEM and the rest are all generic suppliers for the networks. It had evolved that way and then Apple came in and mixed things up and started SCHOOLING the rest in the process.

[TC_Mits]

So if the 'Vanquish' is not the 'Fighter' is there a Fighter thread yet?

Perspective instantiates reality.
( By DX w/HoFo app. )