Motorola DROID RAZR HD XT926 "Vanquish" Pre-Release Thread

[jasaero]

Long story on that one that I am definitely not making public. That one isn't Motorola's fault.



It has been almost a year since the first LTE phone hit the market and do you know how many LTE chip suppliers are shipping in phones today? There are two, Qualcomm's and the Motorola one. Pretty amazing huh?



There might be other options as well.



Not in the next 5 years at least.
Integrated modems and AP has been this holy grail in chip development for years, and only one company has been successful with it (QCM). And there is a performance hit because of it.

Honestly integrated SOCs will be the chip of choice for mid-tier and low-tier products but for the hero products it will be mostly a split architecture except for rare occasions (such as the QCM phones this summer). It just takes so much effort to integrate the modem and AP together that neither side can keep up with stand alone modems and APs.

I am really talking the 5 year range in all of this as you get devices that are plenty powerful with integrated chips for most everyone's use model. And really in 5 years I think they will have plenty of power to deal with most any current laptop oriented tasks. The only thing that might throw and axe in all that is software development forcing more and more resources to do similar tasks for pomp or something.

At some point I just don't understand what use model would require more power than what can be offered on very affordable integrated chips. We headed to desktop replacement phones?? Transcoding HD video is the only thing I see a need on my current desktop that might be tough to do on a phone in 5 years, but it would just be slower and probably not by much from what I get today. Gaming also maybe, but I am not a gamer and a phone 5 years from now will be able to pump ALOT of pixels if die shinking under 28nm progresses well in that timeframe.

And really 5 years is not a lot of time for everyone to catch QCM on this integration front. I would say Samsung is closest as BTW you were wrong on your LTE chipset comment on VZW as Samsung also uses and in house LTE baseband. nVidia will probably also have some integration in 5 years with some really powerful application processor and GPU on the same die. I really don't see why you develop an LTE baseband 6 or 7 years before seperate base bands start to become uncommon, unless you are going to get into complete SOC development. And really if you go a bit beyond 5 years you get into an era of LTE only devices with a plethora of bands. Once you are LTE only it will make these completely integrated SOC with baseband and all even more useful in saving cost on a device as it won't need some CDMA baseband.

MOST will be fully integrated SOCs with baseband in 5 years at all levels I am afraid, rather than just QCM having high end fully integrated SOCs. They will have to as QCM is obviously keeping up with all the other players quite well while developing not only basebands, but also their own proprietary ARM v7 cores. Everything I have read of S4 suggests it's Krait core is going to be QUITE competitive with even A15 stuff. And this was really also the case with how scorpion worked out between A8 and A9, but I get the impression Krait might be biased even closer to A15 than Scorpion was to A9. Not to mention Qualcomm seems to have a head start on 28nm and could be ahead on getting Krait to the next shrink before A15 players are even thinking of such a move.

Basically I could understand the LTE baseband development if it gave more advantage or was atleast an initial move toward app processor development and complete SOCs to be more vertical in general and compete with all the other SOC players in the long haul. To me you either do that or you go talk to qualcomm or whoever is ahead at any particular point. And really no one can compete in the long haul with a more focused chip firm such as QCM, nVidia, and Intel. I suspect even Apple will eventually start to fall behind if they aren't extremely innovative on the software/hardware and complete product design front so that any chippery disadvantages are kinda hidden effectively. This would be tough for Moto unless maybe they became more fully integrated with Googles android software teams. I just don't see such a thing maturing well to compete with Apple if Google didn't just ditch it's other android partners and focus on developing specifically for Moto hardwares.

[jasaero]

This true? Or just a trickster creating a false story with some EXIF modding?

http://www.droid-life.com/2012/04/13...on/#more-66708

[dmaxfan]

If that is the case, ill wait for an HD maxx

Sent from my DROID RAZR using HowardForums

[TC_Mits]

Did anyone else notice the "software" line at the end of the list?

Good chance we could have more names than upcoming new phones to release.

Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]

[TC_Mits]

If that is the case, ill wait for an HD maxx

Sent from my DROID RAZR using HowardForums

+1
It's the D4G MAXX HD for me, but 'I feel you.'

Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]

[jo_Ny]

(...)

It has been almost a year since the first LTE phone hit the market and do you know how many LTE chip suppliers are shipping in phones today? There are two, Qualcomm's and the Motorola one. Pretty amazing huh?
(...)

Maybe I got you wrong but arent samsung (droid charge, GNexus) and lg (revolution) also shipping their own lte chip solutions?

[kbman]

Samsung uses VIA chip sets...not sure about LG, but they always used QC reference designs in the past.

[jo_Ny]

Samsung uses VIA chip sets...not sure about LG, but they always used QC reference designs in the past.

Again, I might be wrong but I think Samsung uses VIA chips for the EVDO standards and it's own CMC2xx for lte.

[jasaero]

Maybe I got you wrong but arent samsung (droid charge, GNexus) and lg (revolution) also shipping their own lte chip solutions?

Pretty sure this is correct.

Samsung uses VIA chip sets...not sure about LG, but they always used QC reference designs in the past.

Pretty sure the VIA chip in the Charge and Nexus is for CDMA only. Not sure of all the reasoning for everyone doing their own LTE chips is, but it seems to be the trend. Guess it's a pretty open/shared standard and they don't want to HAVE to continue to rely on Qualcomm for the best basebands going forward..

[TC_Mits]

What of the expected 2d generation LTE chips with reduced power consumption? Should we expect some such in the Vanquish /Fighter?

Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]

[jasaero]

Seems next gen devices(possibly including this one) might be sporting Qualcomm S4. Not sure that would include a version with LTE baseband or not? Maybe some peeps with more confirmed info could corroborate.

http://www.droid-life.com/2012/04/16...g-the-razr-hd/

[TC_Mits]

I'm as yet unconvinced that quad-core SoCs in cellphones are all that big a deal. Maybe, but I'll have to see it.

More energy efficient LTE, on the other hand, will have a very large impact on the overall utility of our pocket computers.

Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]

[jasaero]

I'm as yet unconvinced that quad-core SoCs in cellphones are all that big a deal. Maybe, but I'll have to see it.

More energy efficient LTE, on the other hand, will have a very large impact on the overall utility of our pocket computers.

Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]

For now I don't think it's as important as the strength of the core. It really depends on the task. For most things I think more powerful cores are the best route, but at the same time that's a tougher to accomplish solution than multicore. What is really holding us back with Multicore not really helping us out much is that we are stuck at 1gb of RAM. Multicore could help multitasking a good bit, but if you can only run 1gb of tasks in memory you aren't going to get very far along on trying to keep multiple things going forward. This isn't common issue most are needing really though anyhow.

What I find more interesting than multicore at the moment really though is that Qualcomm is beating ARM in processor development timelines. Krait is seemingly going to be a bit closer to A15 than scorpion was to A9, yet both are hitting a good bit earlier. If that trend continues, the next cores could see Qualcomm dropping something before ARM that outperforms what ARM eventually drops. This would be a BAD situation for those that rely on ARM designed core licenses. nVidia is the only other player that I figure might be working on their own design ARM cores in the smartphone/tablet space.

The only saving grace is that the next cores may be ARMv8 and Qualcomm may not get access to that final spec in time to beat ARM with a design built around it. Likelier though is that Qualcomm will stick with ARMv7 while the rest are forced into ARMv8 and no software will support the extra features for awhile leaving Qualcomm with the better performing chippery. Then once lots of software is around running ARMv8 well Qualcomm will drop a bomb of a core compatible with ARMv8.

Really don't see expansion beyond 4 cores other than companion sorta cores adding a whole lot even if they do happen. I figure if they do, they will be reserved to windows 8 machines of some sort and not smartphones. There is a very good chance though that first round Qualcomm S4 devices will be VERY competitive well into their elder years. 4 core versions of this architecture will only add performance on limited tasks and probably won't happen in phones until the first 2 core ones are quite old as we transition to 20nm processes.

[dmaxfan]

Its my understanding that the fighter will be released this summer and the vanquish will release in October with the krait to challenge the new iPhone.

But, I have heard the fighter and vanquish are the same- which aren't. I have also heard the fighter is also to support the krait but Im betting its going to be omap; however, qualcomm did mention they are having problems meeting demand of the kraits so who knows. Someone is using them.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using HowardForums

[TC_Mits]

Dmaxfan, do you have any specific basis for your "understanding"? A leak? A well-positioned friend? A further logical deduction? Some combination? And on what do you base your confidence that the 'Vanquish' and 'Fighter' are not the same phone?

Some folks were clearly expecting something in April which seems unlikely now to me.

Do you think the 'Fighter' could wind up as the RAZR HD? Any thoughts on a possible D4G MAXX?

If the 'Vanquish' is still more than five months off, it seems to me that eight months from "a VERY early build" to the showroom is still quite a long time. If the 'Vanquish' is to be a "DX replacement" as OP fone sex suggested, mid-October would be nine quarters from its release, which seems very late for a replacement, given that DX support has already been dropped.

What are your thoughts?


Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]