How Exactly Will AT&T Remain Competitive?

[fraydog]

The LTE in this area of Oklahoma was placed by Verizon in a 1X roaming area. Verizon has no native system there. The roaming partner only offers 1X service, no 3G. Verizon didn't need to have native 3G there, nor did the partner, evidently, for them to place an LTE setup in that area. So why does AT&T have to have 3G and/or HSPA in an area before they can deploy LTE? Voice calls are not a problem, essentially Verizon is only offering LTE data there, the voice calls will be handled by the roaming partner I assume until VoLTE is rolled out. Evidently it is possible to skip steps in the overall process, and Verizon is perfectly willing to do that, just another way AT&T will be unable to keep up or compete.

Attachment 81797

I don't think CSFB for GSM systems has SVDO. However that's a small price to pay I believe most AT&T users left on EDGE would take to go to LTE.

[zephxiii]

The problem is that if you are doing all the work to put in LTE, you can easily throw in HSPA, that is my argument and it makes no sense not to. In addition the money you are throwing into HSPA is going farther and have an immediate impact since you are supporting a much larger install base. It makes no sense to do LTE only (maybe in over 5 years). And there are no 850/1900 LTE phones and isn't going to happen anytime soon., VoLTE will not be mainstream for voice for a long time as well...as far as I'm concerned it still needs to be proven. No company is going to give away free phones either unless they have too...like switching from CDMA to HSPA or turning down GSM further like in NYC.

[fraydog]

The problem is that if you are doing all the work to put in LTE, you can easily throw in HSPA, that is my argument and it makes no sense not to. In addition the money you are throwing into HSPA is going farther and have an immediate impact since you are supporting a much larger install base. It makes no sense to do LTE only (maybe in over 5 years). And there are no 850/1900 LTE phones and isn't going to happen anytime soon., VoLTE will not be mainstream for voice for a long time as well...as far as I'm concerned it still needs to be proven. No company is going to give away free phones either unless they have too...like switching from CDMA to HSPA or turning down GSM further like in NYC.

Then let's consider a rural reverse deployment where AT&T customers on LTE only roam onto HSPA+ with SR-VCC. I know this hurts people out of that area in an HSPA+ area who fall back onto EDGE. However that's such a small case that it really isn't significant. If AT&T has enough bandwidth to run a 10x10 LTE on 850 and can still throw out a 1900 HSPA+ channel for roaming, great. If spectrum constrained it makes sense to go LTE only. Since LTE upgrades incorporate HSPA+ at no additional cost, it becomes a spectrum
question. If they have a 5x5 700 they can MIMO the 700 and 850 to get similar speeds to the VZW C block, also opening up HSPA+ on 850. Where I live AT&T has AWS and 700 yet large chunks of EDGE, and Verizon being aggressive with LTE. This is a great case for AT&T to come out swinging with LTE and HSPA+ both.

I still think reverse deployment might be the compelling case on areas still stuck on EDGE, IMO. Areas that have HSPA+ now that are rural can hang back a while, like more toward the end of 2014.

[Steveanderson13]

Evidently it is possible to skip steps in the overall process, and Verizon is perfectly willing to do that,

Casinos?....

[zephxiii]

Then let's consider a rural reverse deployment where AT&T customers on LTE only roam onto HSPA+ with SR-VCC. I know this hurts people out of that area in an HSPA+ area who fall back onto EDGE. However that's such a small case that it really isn't significant. If AT&T has enough bandwidth to run a 10x10 LTE on 850 and can still throw out a 1900 HSPA+ channel for roaming, great. If spectrum constrained it makes sense to go LTE only. Since LTE upgrades incorporate HSPA+ at no additional cost, it becomes a spectrum
question. If they have a 5x5 700 they can MIMO the 700 and 850 to get similar speeds to the VZW C block, also opening up HSPA+ on 850. Where I live AT&T has AWS and 700 yet large chunks of EDGE, and Verizon being aggressive with LTE. This is a great case for AT&T to come out swinging with LTE and HSPA+ both.

I still think reverse deployment might be the compelling case on areas still stuck on EDGE, IMO. Areas that have HSPA+ now that are rural can hang back a while, like more toward the end of 2014.

The problem is that we aren't anywhere near the time to do any of this because of how new LTE is. There is zero reason to do any of this if barely anyone has LTE in the sub base and it takes a long time for LTE to become mainstream...

The equipment they are going to install is basically going to make LTE a radio bolt-on....so deliver what people can use RIGHT NOW in those EDGE only areas...instead of trying for something that isn't going to be a good idea to do until much later in the game when it is in tune with reality.

There is zero reason to be deploying LTE on 850mhz right now or in the next few years since EVERYONE right now needs 850/1900 bandwidth for HSPA+ just to get off of GSM/EDGE and improve overall capacity. There are no 850/1900 LTE phones, VoLTE is not even out let alone being a mainstream cellular voice service!!!! They don't even send SMS over LTE!!!!

Start with the basics (shut down GSM and add HSPA+) then add on top LTE! You guys are dreaming. AT&T would be shooting themselves in the foot if they just deployed LTE and forgot 90% of everyone else on HSPA!

[ggore]

Casinos?....

No, it's a college town, Southeastern Oklahoma State University in Durant, OK.

[ggore]

The problem is that we aren't anywhere near the time to do any of this because of how new LTE is. There is zero reason to do any of this if barely anyone has LTE in the sub base and it takes a long time for LTE to become mainstream...

The equipment they are going to install is basically going to make LTE a radio bolt-on....so deliver what people can use RIGHT NOW in those EDGE only areas...instead of trying for something that isn't going to be a good idea to do until much later in the game when it is in tune with reality.

There is zero reason to be deploying LTE on 850mhz right now or in the next few years since EVERYONE right now needs 850/1900 bandwidth for HSPA+ just to get off of GSM/EDGE and improve overall capacity. There are no 850/1900 LTE phones, VoLTE is not even out let alone being a mainstream cellular voice service!!!! They don't even send SMS over LTE!!!!

Start with the basics (shut down GSM and add HSPA+) then add on top LTE! You guys are dreaming. AT&T would be shooting themselves in the foot if they just deployed LTE and forgot 90% of everyone else on HSPA!

Should we still have analog cellphone service available? There were a lot of people still using it when it was shut off. It worked fantastically well, with signals reaching out 50+ miles from a tower. AT&T has never been able to get their 1st-gen digital service out to the point that it covers all the area they used to cover with analog. And each successive generation of tech from AT&T has covered an increasingly smaller territory. That needs to change.

There are times when you just have to push people off an old technology and onto a newer one that in the end offers far a far better experience. That's what EDGE did over the old analog system, and is what LTE offers over EDGE. We are talking about areas that have never been upgraded beyond that analog-to-digital switch years ago.

[zephxiii]

Should we still have analog cellphone service available? There were a lot of people still using it when it was shut off. It worked fantastically well, with signals reaching out 50+ miles from a tower. AT&T has never been able to get their 1st-gen digital service out to the point that it covers all the area they used to cover with analog. And each successive generation of tech from AT&T has covered an increasingly smaller territory. That needs to change.

There are times when you just have to push people off an old technology and onto a newer one that in the end offers far a far better experience. That's what EDGE did over the old analog system, and is what LTE offers over EDGE. We are talking about areas that have never been upgraded beyond that analog-to-digital switch years ago.

WTF there was not A LOT of people using it when it got shut off lol (percentage of userbase)!!!! And it was **** when it came to capacity.

You push people off of GSM onto HSPA because that is the mainstream superior. You don't suddenly turndown or cease to deploy HSPA(+) that EVERYONE is capable of using so you can launch your functionally incomplete fantasy LTE network that a small percentage of the userbase can use...not only that the current LTE devices don't even support 850/1900 nor do they support VoLTE nor would you only launch LTE on 700/AWS and have GSM only for voice since your overall voice/data capacity would be less and wasted by GSM/EDGE....especially since all those users (majority of userbase) is still stuck on EDGE!

[fraydog]

We're not talking about doing it right now.

We're talking about where AT&T needs to be a year from now.

It's going to take a year to get LTE to the sticks anyway. Point is, AT&T has to make planning decisions for 850/1900 LTE and PCS LTE, the MSM8960 already supports VoLTE with SV-RCC, and AT&T has to be more creative to deal with the nationwide AWS and C block 700 VZW possesses.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Qualc...gon-S4_id26515

This is AT&T's best opportunity to get it right. Thinking in the past will kill that opportunity off.

[zephxiii]

We're not talking about doing it right now.

We're talking about where AT&T needs to be a year from now.

It's going to take a year to get LTE to the sticks anyway. Point is, AT&T has to make planning decisions for 850/1900 LTE and PCS LTE, the MSM8960 already supports VoLTE with SV-RCC, and AT&T has to be more creative to deal with the nationwide AWS and C block 700 VZW possesses.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Qualc...gon-S4_id26515

This is AT&T's best opportunity to get it right. Thinking in the past will kill that opportunity off.

A year from now still won't be time really as the adoption rate is slow and turning down any HSPA is a really bad idea since they need more of it even in LTE areas. They are going to continue to deploy LTE and are going to start in the urban areas and move out. You can bet that any money spent on any LTE equipment is not going to edge only rural areas of low population density as money for rural areas is currently better used on HSPA deployments and LTE equipment is way better employed in urban environments. You can already bet AT&T already has a plan on network evolution and refarming 850/1900 is not going to happen until they get GSM down to barely using any spectrum.

Also do not forget these base stations are modular, flat IP HSPA+ is the foundation for LTE expansion since apparently you just add cards etc.

[fraydog]

We realize all that! Just realize you're going to be a year behind VZW with the devotion to HSPA+.

Also don't forget VZW will have a superior voice product running over their footprint with VoLTE on 6/31/2013. All the VZW devices will have global roaming by then and the CDMA radios won't even need to be enabled except for roaming. No eHRPD connection is needed on these handsets either.

Technically that's a really advanced approach and one in line with the GSMA.

[johnhere]

They still sell 2g phones on the prepaid side. Makes me wonder how long those will be usable.

[BuffaloTF]

We realize all that! Just realize you're going to be a year behind VZW with the devotion to HSPA+.

Also don't forget VZW will have a superior voice product running over their footprint with VoLTE on 6/31/2013. All the VZW devices will have global roaming by then and the CDMA radios won't even need to be enabled except for roaming. No eHRPD connection is needed on these handsets either.

Technically that's a really advanced approach and one in line with the GSMA.

VoLTE likely won't be happening on Verizon until 2014... according to the most recent remarks made - that there is no rush to launch it... and no hardware that supports it.

Edit: There's also no approved band classes in CLR frequencies... the CLR A/B frequencies are 869-894. So they'd basically need both sides of the 25 mhz CLR to launch a 10x10 carrier to match Upper Block C SMH. But LTE Band Class 2 is PCS.... so there's that.

Second Edit: I'm wrong. Band Class 5 has CLR covered. I can't read well, evidently.

[zephxiii]

We realize all that! Just realize you're going to be a year behind VZW with the devotion to HSPA+.

Also don't forget VZW will have a superior voice product running over their footprint with VoLTE on 6/31/2013. All the VZW devices will have global roaming by then and the CDMA radios won't even need to be enabled except for roaming. No eHRPD connection is needed on these handsets either.

Technically that's a really advanced approach and one in line with the GSMA.

We already knew they were at least a year behind!! WTF else is new?? We also know that AT&T is deploying LTE too!! That does not change the fact that AT&T still has to get HSPA+ everywhere!!!!!

[Steveanderson13]

No, it's a college town, Southeastern Oklahoma State University in Durant, OK.

I think that's where a very large casino is but the college makes sense; but how does that compare with other small colleges there?