Now showing 4G on iPhone 4S after iOS 5.1 update

[GSMinCT]

AT&T's UMTS is seriously overloaded. It's really bad in places. That's the main reason for AT&T to deploy LTE (it uses new, greenfield spectrum so any LTE users take load off UMTS and improve performance for everybody).

Exactly. Some of their urban networks are horribly overloaded. Most of their HSPA+ is pretty good though, and some urban areas, like Detroit, MI, all of Ohio, and Connecticut (with the exception of Fairfield County which is basically NY) have excellent speeds.

Granted, this isn't what AT&T did. But *if it had been* - would you still be dissing on HSPA+? Technology isn't the problem, deployment is.

Yup. And then there would have actually been validity to their claims of "two layers of 4G", which would have been pretty potent advertising with a combination of HSPA+84 and LTE. It also would have made LTE a tower-only upgrade, whereas now they still have many, many areas that still don't have EB for HSPA+.

The most atrocious part to me is that they still have a lot of EDGE areas, and they aren't in good shape. If they aren't going to fix them (which it doesn't look like they will), then they need to put 3G up there.

[Doolie]

1x at least has tolerable latency. Dropping from 50mbit/s to 10kbps is unbearable and you lose the do called advantage of AT&T which is simultaneous voice and data


Sent from my iPhone 4S on Sprint using Tapatalk

All latency can be tolerable.

[Chd176]

lol now AT&T has a new commercial to go with the 4G icon.

[spdickey]

lol now AT&T has a new commercial to go with the 4G icon.

Just as suspected, the AT&T 4G spin machine is now in full gear. Sure, the iPhone 4S is faster on AT&T than Verizon, but still not as fast as 4G LTE with other devices. But the public will be deceived with AT&T's marketing efforts and think all 4G is 4G, when in reality it really isn't.

And pardon my labeling AT&T's marketing efforts as "marketing."

[jet1000]

Sure, the iPhone 4S is faster on AT&T than Verizon, but still not as fast as 4G LTE with other devices.

AT&T never claims it is as fast as 4G LTE devices.

But the public will be deceived and think all 4G is 4G, when in reality it really isn't.

You have no evidence that the public will be deceived. You have no evidence that they will think all 4G is 4G. Everyone posting on this forum seems to have figured out that there is a difference between 4G and 4G LTE. Do you think "the public" has such inferior intelligence than yourself that they won't be able to figure it out?

AT&T even labels the device differently. One set is called "4G". One set is called "4G LTE". Verizon also uses the same label, "4G LTE".

If a person thinks two devices that are labeled differently are the same, then the consumer is to blame for his lack of education on the matter.

Now, if they were calling the iPhone 4G LTE, that would be wrong, and I would say that you have a point. But you really have no point when they label the devices with separate labels.

[GSMinCT]

Just as suspected, the AT&T 4G spin machine is now in full gear. Sure, the iPhone 4S is faster on AT&T than Verizon, but still not as fast as 4G LTE with other devices. But the public will be deceived with AT&T's marketing efforts and think all 4G is 4G, when in reality it really isn't.

And pardon my labeling AT&T's marketing efforts as "marketing."

The sad part is, EVDO, HSPA+ and LTE are the same to a lot of people. I have seen a number of people buy EVDO-only smartphones on Verizon recently, not just iPhones, since they just don't get the difference.

The upgrade from AT&T HSPA+ to LTE just isn't compelling unless you're in a market with crappy HSPA+, but people should at least know what the difference is.

[Chd176]

You have no evidence that the public will be deceived. You have no evidence that they will think all 4G is 4G. Everyone posting on this forum seems to have figured out that there is a difference between 4G and 4G LTE.

We're not the general public either...I'm not saying they're stupid but they don't bother to keep up with the technical aspects of a wireless network. In their eyes I tend to agree with spdickey that the general public will be thinking 4G is 4G and when/if the LTE iPhone comes out they'll want to know why they should get it when they already have 4G.

[spdickey]

AT&T never claims it is as fast as 4G LTE devices.

No they don't but there is nothing in this commercial that would dispel the unsuspecting consumer from believing otherwise.

You have no evidence that the public will be deceived. You have no evidence that they will think all 4G is 4G. Everyone posting on this forum seems to have figured out that there is a difference between 4G and 4G LTE. Do you think "the public" has such inferior intelligence than yourself that they won't be able to figure it out?

AT&T even labels the device differently. One set is called "4G". One set is called "4G LTE". Verizon also uses the same label, "4G LTE".

If a person thinks two devices that are labeled differently are the same, then the consumer is to blame for his lack of education on the matter.

Now, if they were calling the iPhone 4G LTE, that would be wrong, and I would say that you have a point. But you really have no point when they label the devices with separate labels.

This particular poster tends to use the "no evidence" phrase a lot. Apparently the poster has some hidden evidence that the public is fully aware of the technical differences between AT&T's various 4G networks. But to suggest that people posting on this forum just the same as general public is false information and one should not generalize from this small sample. I am shocked that the poster would even suggest that "inferior intelligence" could be the reason that the public is not informed. Ignorant perhaps, but it nothing to do with IQ.

There is a lot of contempt shown for the public when the poster says "the consumer is to blame for his lack of education." It is up to the service provider to fully explain what they are selling. And not to deceive the public with potentially misleading information.

And I apologize in advance for labeling certain uninformed members of the public as "ignorant." Perhaps the vast resources of AT&T's marketing department could help to fix that, but I'm not holding my breath after seeing that last commercial.

Also pardon my labeling AT&T's marketing department as "vast."

[jet1000]

No they don't but there is nothing in this commercial that would dispel the unsuspecting consumer from believing otherwise.

Sure there is. The commercial never once mentions LTE. Thus there's no reason for the viewer to connect the device that is shown to the capabilities of an LTE device.

This particular poster tends to use the "no evidence" phrase a lot.

Right. Because factual statements are made which have nothing to back them up.

Example of such a statement:

"the public will be deceived with AT&T's marketing efforts and think all 4G is 4G"

The poster did not say, that there's a possibility of that happening. Or that some of the public might think that. Or that they could envision some people believing that.

No, the poster makes a definitive factual statement of something when the poster has shown zero evidence of such an occurrence actually happening. And then when the poster is called out to back up such a definitive statement, they seem puzzled that someone would challenge what they stated as a fact.

Apparently the poster has some hidden evidence that the public is fully aware of the technical differences between AT&T's various 4G networks.

I never claimed to have such evidence. I only challenged that you do not have such evidence

It is up to the service provider to fully explain what they are selling.

No, they are not required to "fully" explain. Nor do all customers want a "full" explanation. There is no law defining how much information should be given to the consumer about a device. Who are you to decide how much device information must be presented?

The sad part is, EVDO, HSPA+ and LTE are the same to a lot of people. I have seen a number of people buy EVDO-only smartphones on Verizon recently, not just iPhones, since they just don't get the difference.

I don't know that it's "sad". If people aren't buying LTE phones then the carriers and manufacturers aren't communicating a compelling reason to buy them. It's just like the slow selling Chevy Volt. Some people may think that's a great car, but the public hasn't agreed yet.

and when/if the LTE iPhone comes out they'll want to know why they should get it when they already have 4G.

Well Apple and the carriers would need to communicate that just like all marketers. But that doesn't mean anyone is doing anything wrong at this time.

[Chd176]

Well Apple and the carriers would need to communicate that just like all marketers. But that doesn't mean anyone is doing anything wrong at this time.

So, according to you AT&T is going to have to go "oh guys our new 4G LTE iPhone is faster than our regular 4G iPhone but you know they're both still technically 4G".

I never said it was "wrong" I just said they customer is going to assume 4G is 4G be it LTE or HSPA+.

[jet1000]

So, according to you AT&T is going to have to go "oh guys our new 4G LTE iPhone is faster than our regular 4G iPhone but you know they're both still technically 4G".

They're going to say the 4G LTE version is faster than the plain 4G version, yes. AT&T already does that now with other models. Go into a store and ask a representative what's the difference between a phone that is labeled 4G LTE and one just labeled 4G, and they will tell you the LTE version can be faster. It's really not the big confusing issue that you're trying to make it out to be.

they customer is going to assume 4G is 4G be it LTE or HSPA+.

But are they going to assume 4G LTE is the same as 4G when they have different labels. People are smarter than that. It somehow works with cars. The vast majority of people know that when one Honda Accord is labeled LX and one is labeled EX, there's probably a difference at least worth inquiring about.

[Chd176]

Then why do people still not know the difference between 3G and 4G? I hear it in stores all the time...it's not this simple thing you're making it out to be either, but reading back on pages in this thread there isn't anyway to get you to understand a typical customer.

[spdickey]

Sure there is. The commercial never once mentions LTE. Thus there's no reason for the viewer to connect the device that is shown to the capabilities of an LTE device.

Except AT&T doesn't simply label LTE devices just "LTE." They say 4G LTE, with the logo showing a big 4G and little LTE type. Its easy to miss that the 4G is there, but not the LTE part in the iPhone 4S commercial. The public can and will be deceived into thinking that all 4G is the same. And we agree its simply not the same.

Since you bring "no evidence" forward to support your statements, rather just your owb presuppositions, I'll remained inclined to think you have no documentation for your beliefs and that they are just your conjecture. You ask for proof, yet bring nothing to the table to support your contentions.

As to my evidence of the public being deceived, I present you with the following from The Verge. If you have a problem with the journalism of Verge, I suggest you direct your concerns to them directly.

Owners of the iPhone will notice no difference in performance or data transfer speeds; the device will not magically connect to AT&T's shiny new 4G LTE network. It will simply receive a deceptive labeling change that allows AT&T to market the iPhone as a 4G device against competitive phones from Verizon — including, perhaps most importantly, Verizon's own 3G iPhone 4S. It is a triumph of marketing for AT&T, and a rare acquiescence to a poor and confusing user experience for Apple.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/8/285...s-iphone-to-4g

I quote again, "deceptive," "poor and confusing user experience" brought on by AT&T and sadly the "acquiescence" by Apple. So what proof can you bring to the table that the consumer is not being fed deceptive advertising designed to confuse the end user with a poor experience?

But are they going to assume 4G LTE is the same as 4G when they have different labels. People are smarter than that. It somehow works with cars. The vast majority of people know that when one Honda Accord is labeled LX and one is labeled EX, there's probably a difference at least worth inquiring about.

You're making a big assumption there about consumers understanding of technical terms, one that many, including Time Magazine don't believe consumers can.

The four major carriers use different flavors of 4G, which is where a lot of the confusion comes from.

Read more: http://techland.time.com/2012/03/09/...#ixzz1qCK5paPE

I tend to believe that even those who feel they are bright and well informed, still seemingly can't get simple concepts. For example I never assume that some posters understand what many others say here, even when presented with overwhelming evidence over and over again. Those posters continue to seem to not get it and continue to spew their "opinions." So, I still can't take for granted that civilian consumers can understand what AT&T's crack marketeers say.

And pardon my labeling AT&T's marketeers as "crack."

[jet1000]

As to my evidence of the public being deceived, I present you with the following from The Verge.

So now that we have established that you have no factual evidence to back up your statements and only the OPINION of The Verge, let's examine their comments:

the device will not magically connect to AT&T's shiny new 4G LTE network so that point is irrelevant.

The device has NEVER been advertised to connect to the LTE network.

It will simply receive a deceptive labeling change that allows AT&T to market the iPhone as a 4G device

Nothing in the label is deceptive. The iPhone 4S has been a 4G device since it's release. It falls under the guidelines as what the ITU has stated can be called 4G. And it has the same specs as other devices that have previously been called 4G. If anything was deceptive it was the "3G" icon. So fortunately, Apple changed this bit of deception so that AT&T customers know that they have a 4G device.

LTE, Wi-Max or HSPA+ did not meet the definition of 4G before ITU changed their definition. Now they all do. And as such, using the term 4G to refer to devices running on those networks can not be deceptive. Even though the networks may have their differences, they all belong to the subset of 4G.

If you call an apple a fruit, it's still a fruit no matter how many other fruits are being sold.

[-banned-]

Hah, its not really even HSPA+. Oh well, consumer will buy into it like it really is 4G

4G speeds delivered by HSPA+ (with enhanced backhaul)

that is AT$T's definition of 4G which, in theory the iPhone 4S can only do 14.4M which is considered HSPA+ ONLY… so for Apple or AT$T's direct instructions to add the 4G icon into the 4S screen is false advertising… as we already knew this. But to the non tech savy people out there, they will be SOLD thanx to AT$T's brilliant (yea right lol) advertising….!!!