Now showing 4G on iPhone 4S after iOS 5.1 update

[efparri]

Don Quixote is again tilting at windmills. How can someone post over one thousand messages on essentially two topics after being a member for over seven years? How were the consumers faring during those lost years?

Yes, my agenda is the truth and the consumer.

[spdickey]

The 4G label on the new iPad meets your private standards. They just do not operate on the frequencies used outside of North America. A phone without the 850 MHz and 1900 MHz bands used by AT&T would still be 3G if it had the 1700 MHz, 2100 MHz and 900 MHz 3G bands used by other carriers.

No, the marketing and labeling of the new iPad doesn't meet my standards. Apparently you missed the problem that Apple is now having in Sweden with their marketing of a "4G" iPad. The government there is looking at it right now. And Apple got slapped in Australia for the same thing, and they're offering refunds as penance. And I've seen sporadic reports on HoFo about the new iPad 4G indicator coming on here in the states when it probably shouldn't.

(Reuters) - Sweden's consumer protection agency is looking at complaints that Apple Inc does not make it clear that its latest iPad will not work with 4G networks outside the United States and Canada.

The move came after Apple said it was to offer all buyers of the new iPad in Australia a refund.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8ET28Y20120329

And really, you take three or four posts to complain about the word "we?" Really? No wonder your post count is nearing 12,000 and no one is the better for it. A high post count means only one thing. Someone makes a lot of posts. It doesn't make one an expert.

[XFF]

Let me remind you all to keep the discussion on topic (which is the "4G" indicator on iPhone 4S) and not to get personal with other forum users. If you can't stay on track and allow this thread to become a ***** fest I'll just have to close it.

[efparri]

No, the marketing and labeling of the new iPad doesn't meet my standards. Apparently you missed the problem that Apple is now having in Sweden with their marketing of a "4G" iPad. The government there is looking at it right now. And Apple got slapped in Australia for the same thing, and they're offering refunds as penance. And I've seen sporadic reports on HoFo about the new iPad 4G indicator coming on here in the states when it probably shouldn't.



And really, you take three or four posts to complain about the word "we?" Really? No wonder your post count is nearing 12,000 and no one is the better for it. A high post count means only one thing. Someone makes a lot of posts. It doesn't make one an expert.

How is your quoted passage any different from what I wrote in my reply? The Apple iPad had 4G LTE. Is that not what you have been clamoring for in your over 170 messages in this thread? Are you now changing your standards since Apple seems to have met them? You are sawing off the branch after Apple crawled along it to reach the precious 4G fruit at the end of the limb. (It would not sound right if I wrote that Apple was trying to reach the Apple on the branch).

[spdickey]

How is your quoted passage any different from what I wrote in my reply? The Apple iPad had 4G LTE. Is that not what you have been clamoring for in your over 170 messages in this thread? Are you now changing your standards since Apple seems to have met them? You are sawing off the branch after Apple crawled along it to reach the precious 4G fruit at the end of the limb. (It would not sound right if I wrote that Apple was trying to reach the Apple on the branch).

My standards are simple, if there are complaints from the public about a product or service that I care about, I'll point them out. That's it. If Apple is wrong (and it appears that they feel they did wrong because of the refunds offered in Australia), then its wrong. The new iPad is 4G LTE in the USA, but apparently its not 4G to the Swedes nor the Aussies. People are complaining, and governments are looking into it.

Apple is hanging out on a limb, and its their customers and the regulators who are beginning to saw.

And now I see that the UK is now getting into action as well...

Australia iPad 4G complaints may spark domino effect in UK

The UK's advertising regulator is now following the Australian example, and looking at misleading advertising claims made by Apple concerning its 4G LTE network compatiblity.

The UK's Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) is reportedly looking at assessing complaints from customers over misleading claims concerning the iPad 3's 4G mobile network support.

This follows legal proceedings by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, which forced Apple to refund consumers mislead by the company's advertising.

The new iPad's 4G compatibility is limited to 4G LTE networks within the 700MHz and 2100Mhz frequencies, predominantly used in the US and Canada. Australia's only current 'mature' 4G LTE network is Telstra's, which runs in the 1800MHz band.

The US and Canadian frequencies are also incompatible with all of Europe (and the proposed UK frequencies). The UK is auctioning its 4G frequency sometime at year end, once Ofcom finalises the process. The frequencies available will be 800MHz and 2.6 GHz, similar to our European counterparts.

http://mobility.cbronline.com/news/a...t-in-uk-290312

Its all a part of the same topic, 4G and Apple. Capisce?

[efparri]

Granting a refund is not an admission of wrongdoing. It is simply responding to a customer's wishes. If refunds were confessions of guilt, there would be a lot of prosecutions when customers returned unwanted gifts after Christmas, weddings and birthdays. How could customers in the United Kingdom be misled when there is no operational 4G network in the country yet?

If you are going to use Italian slang, at least spell it correctly. The English phonetic spelling of the word is "capish."

Sent from my GtabComb using HowardForums

[kneedragger32]

Granting a refund is not an admission of wrongdoing. It is simply responding to a customer's wishes. If refunds were confessions of guilt, there would be a lot of prosecutions when customers returned unwanted gifts after Christmas, weddings and birthdays. How could customers in the United Kingdom be misled when there is no operational 4G network in the country yet?

If you are going to use Italian slang, at least spell it correctly. The English phonetic spelling of the word is "capish."

Sent from my GtabComb using HowardForums

I think he had it right

[jet1000]

Apparently you missed the problem that Apple is now having in Sweden with their marketing of a "4G" iPad.

And Apple got slapped in Australia for the same thing,

And now I see that the UK is now getting into action as well...

This is completely off topic. This thread is in the AT&T subforum. Apple's marketing of the iPad in foreign countries has absolutely nothing to do with AT&T.

You should post this information in the Apple subforum if you care to discuss it:

http://www.howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php/115-Apple

[spdickey]

This is completely off topic. This thread is in the AT&T subforum. Apple's marketing of the iPad in foreign countries has absolutely nothing to do with AT&T.

You should post this information in the Apple subforum if you care to discuss it:

http://www.howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php/115-Apple

Yes it is, I only mentioned Apple's 4G problems with Sweden as a side note in a post talking about Apple, 3G vs 4G and device marketing. Thank you for weighing in with your off topic opinion. Your valued contributions and opinions are taken as given.

[spdickey]

Granting a refund is not an admission of wrongdoing. It is simply responding to a customer's wishes. If refunds were confessions of guilt, there would be a lot of prosecutions when customers returned unwanted gifts after Christmas, weddings and birthdays. How could customers in the United Kingdom be misled when there is no operational 4G network in the country yet?

If you are going to use Italian slang, at least spell it correctly. The English phonetic spelling of the word is "capish."

Sent from my GtabComb using HowardForums

First, Apple is not responding to customer wishes, rather, the refunds are due to a action by the Australian governmental agency. Please check your facts before posting.

Apple will give refunds to customers in Australia who are unsatisfied with the new iPad, reports the Sydney Morning Herald. A consumer watchdog group there filed a complaint against Apple, accusing the company of using misleading advertising. Apple sells the new iPad in two variants: Wi-Fi and Wi-Fi + 4G. That's not accurate, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission said, and Apple needs to do something about it.
...
First, Apple said it will change its signage to reflect that the new device doesn't work on Telstra and Vividwireless's 4G networks, said the Herald. It will also email those who've purchased the new iPad and explain the difference. Apple will also offer a refund to customers who believe they were misled. Last, Apple will provide revised signage to its resellers that reads: "This product supports very fast cellular networks. It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks or Wi-Max networks." Apple agreed to distribute the signage by 5 p.m. April 5.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/...lets/232700387

As for the UK, regulators there are receiving complaints Apple's 4G marketing of the iPad is deceptive following the Australian action. Of course they don't get 4G in the UK, but Apple is apparently marketing that it is available on the iPad there. Thus the problem.

So to bring this around to the topic of confusing 4G marketing and Apple. Consumers worldwide are complaining about how Apple and the carriers (not just AT&T) are marketing their 4G products, whether they be HPSA+ LTE, Wi-Max or whatever.

Regarding your off topic claim about my misspelling of "capisce." I direct you to the dictionary. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=capisce . Both capisce and capish are correct.

[efparri]

The Urban Dictionary is user generated. It has no authority. There is no editing of entries.

From reading the article, it appears that the refunds are voluntary. I would think that most people would want the iPad itself regardless of at what speed it operates. Telestra only sells USB devices which work on 4G. Apple never claimed that the iPad works on the WiMax network operated by VividWireless.

From the subheadline of the article you quoted:

Apple raised the ire of Australian watchdogs who say the new iPad isn't a 4G device, even though that's how Apple advertises it. This isn't (entirely) Apple's fault.

[spdickey]

The Urban Dictionary is user generated. It has no authority. There is no editing of entries.

From reading the article, it appears that the refunds are voluntary. I would think that most people would want the iPad itself regardless of at what speed it operates. Telestra only sells USB devices which work on 4G. Apple never claimed that the iPad works on the WiMax network operated by VividWireless.

From the subheadline of the article you quoted:

Apple raised the ire of Australian watchdogs who say the new iPad isn't a 4G device, even though that's how Apple advertises it. This isn't (entirely) Apple's fault.

Sorry, but you continuing to be off topic again. You be dismissive the Urban Dictionary if you want. That was my source. And apparently you can edit entries, you may want to take them up on it and make the correction if you are so inclined.

Before you do so, you may want to refer to this additional source for alternative spellings of the slang word "capisce."

capice
capicé
capiche
capeesh
capisch
capishe
coppish
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/capisce

I kind of like "coppish" myself after seeing it there. It looks like something said on Goodfellas, or by Tony Soprano.

Now back to the topic of 4G and marketing claims...

So Apple is at least partial responsible per your quote. It appears that the problem isn't Apple's alone, its a problem that is happening worldwide, as we've been discussing.

So far, it sounds like Apple is doing the right thing and making good on the situation. Even so, the ACCC is taking Apple to court with the goal of wrangling a fine out of the iPad maker.

Apple's 4G marketing problems aren't unique to Australia. Trouble appears to be brewing in Europe, with Austrian, Swedish, and United Kingdom consumer advocates weighing action against Apple's new iPad and its inability to operate on European 4G networks.
However, there's a bigger issue at play that will continue to lead to marketing problems for tablet and smartphone makers for years to come: 4G networks are incredibly disparate around the globe.

We need only look at the United States as an example. AT&T and Verizon Wireless both use the 700-MHz band for their LTE networks, but devices won't be able to roam between the two networks because they are using different frequencies. Sprint's LTE network will operate partially in the 1900-MHz band and partially in the 2.5-GHz band. T-Mobile's LTE network will eventually operate in the 1700-MHz band.

Consumers in the United States can't effectively roam among the various 4G networks at all. Amplify this by hundreds of carriers across hundreds of countries, and you begin to see the problem. There are at least three different bands being used by carriers across Europe for LTE. Worse, some technologies (such as HSPA+) are being marketed as 3G in some markets and as 4G in others. Confused yet?

While the GSMA did a great job convincing the majority of carriers to use the same bands for 2G/2.5G networks, 3G and now 4G networks are entirely different stories to which there appears to be no happy ending.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/...lets/232700387

I don't see where the refunds are voluntary, rather Apple is being required by the Australian commission to email customers and offer the refunds. The customer can then request a refund it or not, but its not Apple's choice. And the commission is taking Apple to court to extract a fine from the company.

Apparently there was some consumer confusion with the marketing concerning W-Max since Apple is now being required to post disclaimers that say. "[t]his product supports very fast cellular networks. It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks or Wi-Max networks."

This problem with "4G" marketing will continue to be debated for sometime to come.

[jet1000]

Yes it is,

You acknowledge that your posts regarding the foreign marketing of the iPad are off-topic as they have nothing to do with AT&T which is where this thread is located. Then in posts 535 and 537 you continue your off topic posts regarding the iPad being marketed in Australia and the UK.

I will repost the link to the Apple subforum below in case you had difficulty finding it, so that you can continue your iPad marketing discussion in the correct forum if you so choose:

http://www.howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php/115-Apple

[efparri]

You have a lot of chutzpah. You introduce an off-topic discussion and then criticize others for responding to that topic.
After being told that something was off-topic by another member:

Yes it is, I only mentioned Apple's 4G problems with Sweden as a side note in a post talking about Apple, 3G vs 4G and device marketing. Thank you for weighing in with your off topic opinion. Your valued contributions and opinions are taken as given.

[spdickey]

You have a lot of chutzpah. You introduce an off-topic discussion and then criticize others for responding to that topic.
After being told that something was off-topic by another member:

You acknowledge that your posts regarding the foreign marketing of the iPad are off-topic as they have nothing to do with AT&T which is where this thread is located. Then in posts 535 and 537 you continue your off topic posts regarding the iPad being marketed in Australia and the UK.

I will repost the link to the Apple subforum below in case you had difficulty finding it, so that you can continue your iPad marketing discussion in the correct forum if you so choose:

http://www.howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php/115-Apple

And now both you make off topic posts about the side issue of whether this is off topic or not.

First, I did not "introduce an off-topic discussion." I made a one sentence declaration about Apple in a longer post that you responded to and I replied to that. Thus it was you that went on and continued the discussion, not me.

To the second poster, no I did not acknowledge anything, you misread. I said yes it was, meaning yes it was on topic and went on to describe. Again, if you are having comprenehsion problems, please let me know in a PM so I can set you straight, rather than you looking foolish by pointing out your reading problem in public.

And yes, I was responding to an off topic post criticizing my use of an alternative spelling, also responding to a rant about a post being off topic. If I'm not allowed to respond publicly to your denouncements, then don't post here, rather ask questions in a PM.

Apparently the topic as moved on to a the bigger discussion of cellular carriers, Apple, 4G marketing and the worldwide situation. If you don't two don't want to participate, that's your choice. Stop posting and I'll stop answering. I am only responding to posts made by you and others while offering including additional information addressing the larger 4G marketing question.