Rogers Contract canceled....they want a Device Savings Recovery Fee....

**eblend** · 03-28-2012, 09:23 PM

Hi guys,

On January 2011 I signed into a 3 year contract with Rogers and received a Nokia N8 harware upgrade and about the December 2011 time frame I started thinking about canceling due to various reasons (been a customer for 13 years). I called Rogers and asked how much it would be to cancel and was quoted $500 bucks ($400 max for plan, $100 max for data).

January 2012 comes along and rogers changes their cancelation policy for all new contracts. The policy now has a Device Saving Recovery fee + $12.50 admin fee for cancelations on all new contracts. The contract terms state that they will charge you a device savings recovery fee if you got device savings when you signed this new contract under these new terms.

Feb comes along and I get a call from Rogers marketing, offering me free txt messages on this phone line. I know that if I sign up for this plan, I will automatically fall under the new cancelation terms, and since I am not getting an additional hardware upgrade, no Device Savings Recovery fee would apply to me should I cancel, since that is only on device savings when signing up for new contract under the new terms.

So in March I canceled my contract expecting to pay only $12.50, as thats the only part of the new contract that applies, however, Rogers is charging me $213 bucks for "Device Recovery Fee". How can they charge me a Device Recovery fee, which is only an option on new contracts, when I never got a new device under my new contract? To solidify the fact that I am indeed under the new contract, they added the $12.50 cancelation fee on the bill.

Anyone have any experience with this? There is some discussion about this at different places, but noone has a good answer.

As far as I am aware, this is a hole in their policy and they are afraid to admit it, and continue to apply the new policy to old hardware renewals, hopeing people just pay up.

Any advice appreciatd. I will be calling Rogers in the next few days and have a nice discussion with them...

**ceredon** · 03-28-2012, 09:26 PM

OOP then CCTS.

**eblend** · 03-28-2012, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by ceredon

OOP then CCTS.

Sorry whats the OOP, office of the president?

I read about the ccts before as well, and was planning to use it should they charge me the 30 days of service after the number was ported, but they didn't charge me that strangly, perhaps there is another bill to follow next month. If all else fails I will go to CCTS. Thanks for the reply?

**ceredon** · 03-28-2012, 09:48 PM

Yes, office of the president. CCTS can look at it if OOP doesn't want to fix it.

**WorldIRC** · 03-28-2012, 09:52 PM

What "should" have happened was the feature added, and the original contract in tact.

Users are not allowed to renew until 24 months since the last upgrade.

Looks like a rep screwed up, and Rogers is trying to hide their tracks.

"Legally", the new contract applies (if your contract was renewed), and the policy should be as described.
However, "ethically" (and I'm not defending Rogers here), you do know the subsidy hasn't been paid off "at least in the eyes of the original contract", and you do "owe" the device subsidy.

I guess it comes down to ethics (do you really care to take advantage of the "man"...I know it wouldn't phase me) vs. legality (well, the rep screwed up, and that rep DOES represent Rogers...but was that rep in an actual position of power to do what they did).

Could be a fun adventure ahead. Let us know how it turns out!

Also, I'm assuming you're not in Quebec...

**eblend** · 03-28-2012, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by WorldIRC

What "should" have happened was the feature added, and the original contract in tact.

Users are not allowed to renew until 24 months since the last upgrade.

Looks like a rep screwed up, and Rogers is trying to hide their tracks.

"Legally", the new contract applies (if your contract was renewed), and the policy should be as described.
However, "ethically" (and I'm not defending Rogers here), you do know the subsidy hasn't been paid off "at least in the eyes of the original contract", and you do "owe" the device subsidy.

I guess it comes down to ethics (do you really care to take advantage of the "man"...I know it wouldn't phase me) vs. legality (well, the rep screwed up, and that rep DOES represent Rogers...but was that rep in an actual position of power to do what they did).

Could be a fun adventure ahead. Let us know how it turns out!

Also, I'm assuming you're not in Quebec...

Yah I hear what you are saying, and I understand it completely. Do I feel good about doing it, no I do not, however, I feel justified in this. The trouble I had to go through for all my contracts has left a very bad taste in my mouth. A little back story to this, I used to have 3 phone lines with rogers, was able to sell one of my contracts, second one ran out in March and i ported, and one was canceled, the one this post is based on.

I signed a 3 year contract initially for this phone line and was told that I would get 500mb of data for $15, some additional small credits for voicemail for a total of about ~$50 a month for that one line. During the renewal they promised that all my credits would have the same end date, which would be 3 years from the day I signed. 3 month later I called for an unrelated issue on my other phone line and out of curiousity asked about all my contract and credit end dates, to my surprise, they were all over the place. The lady said she will fix them all to line up with the contract expiry date, so everything seemed to be okay. Forward to december, I called again, and once again, none of my credits line up and everything is coming to an end 11 month into a contract, making the plan i signed up for for 3 years $30 more expensive overnight....frustrating to say the least. Multiply this time 3 for all the lines I had with them, and it was the end of the line. The thing that really tipped the scales was when my wife and I left the country for 2 month, and rogers couldn't do a single thing for us in terms of suspending service, told them they can extend the contract by the number of time suspended, but nothing worked. 2 month away paying for two phones was about $240 bucks for 0 minutes and 0 mb of data used...noone seemed to care the few times I talked to them. So yah, in a way I do want to screw them for all the stress they caused me and the money they sucked out of me over the last 13 years.

By the way, my wife and I are now very happy with Mobilicity (great reception everywhere we been so far in Calgary) and my third line is with Speakout wireless prepaid, this combo to seem to be the best for our needs

**WorldIRC** · 03-28-2012, 10:15 PM

Sucks to hear. Anyways...for the retention part of your story, there is a subforum dedicated to retentions...perhaps you can find some advice on recourse, especially since Rogers renegged on your deal. May find some good ammunition when you reach CCTS / OOP.

**ceredon** · 03-29-2012, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by WorldIRC

What "should" have happened was the feature added, and the original contract in tact.

Users are not allowed to renew until 24 months since the last upgrade.

Looks like a rep screwed up, and Rogers is trying to hide their tracks.

"Legally", the new contract applies (if your contract was renewed), and the policy should be as described.
However, "ethically" (and I'm not defending Rogers here), you do know the subsidy hasn't been paid off "at least in the eyes of the original contract", and you do "owe" the device subsidy.

I guess it comes down to ethics (do you really care to take advantage of the "man"...I know it wouldn't phase me) vs. legality (well, the rep screwed up, and that rep DOES represent Rogers...but was that rep in an actual position of power to do what they did).

Could be a fun adventure ahead. Let us know how it turns out!

Also, I'm assuming you're not in Quebec...

I don't see it as 'taking advantage of the man', I see the ethical thing would be to hold both parties to whatever is stipulated in the contracts. Three year contracts suck and are an example of our carriers taking advantage of their customers because of their market position, but it isn't unethical or illegal for them to enforce them. Why would one think it unethical to hold them to the new contract to which they agreed? Did the rep make a mistake? Maybe, but then maybe the customer made a mistake by signing the original contract. A lot of things are left up to the discretion of the reps.

**WorldIRC** · 03-29-2012, 07:48 AM

^Ceredon,
Does it state anywhere that renewing / signing a new contract nullifies the terms and conditions of the previous contract?

**ceredon** · 03-29-2012, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by WorldIRC

^Ceredon,
Does it state anywhere that renewing / signing a new contract nullifies the terms and conditions of the previous contract?

http://your.rogers.com/about/legaldi...er/TOS_Eng.pdf

General
37.
The Service Agreement, as amended from time to time, constitutes the entire agreement between you and Rogers for the Services and supersedes all prior agreements, written or oral, with respect to the same subject matter.

Unless they stipulate that the new agreement doesn't start until the old one expires (a la Fido stacked contracts) or that the new agreement will fall under they terms of the old contract (especially if the published and available TOS at the time of the renewal/amendment state otherwise), then their own TOS says the new terms apply. Contract law regarding the bilateral amendment of contracts would probably also apply (and supersede the TOS).

**HowEver** · 03-29-2012, 12:23 PM

"Device Subsidy" isn't something we "pay off."

It's what they give us for signing up.

Fail.

**WorldIRC** · 03-29-2012, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by ceredon

http://your.rogers.com/about/legaldi...er/TOS_Eng.pdf

Unless they stipulate that the new agreement doesn't start until the old one expires (a la Fido stacked contracts) or that the new agreement will fall under they terms of the old contract (especially if the published and available TOS at the time of the renewal/amendment state otherwise), then their own TOS says the new terms apply. Contract law regarding the bilateral amendment of contracts would probably also apply (and supersede the TOS).

OP better have that handy!

**ceredon** · 03-29-2012, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by WorldIRC

OP better have that handy!

I'd hope Rogers would have it handy too...

**Rogers_Kate** · 03-29-2012, 03:17 PM

Hi eblend,

The changes made to our cancellation fees policy on January 22nd, 2012 were made to provide customers with more predictability in their wireless services. The new changes do not negate your previous terms but rather make it easier for you to know exactly what you will pay if you choose to end your committed term contract early.

In your case you would still be expected to pay for the hardware subsidy you received when you entered into your term in January 2011.

**ceredon** · 03-29-2012, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Rogers_Kate

Hi eblend,

The changes made to our cancellation fees policy on January 22nd, 2012 were made to provide customers with more predictability in their wireless services. The new changes do not negate your previous terms but rather make it easier for you to know exactly what you will pay if you choose to end your committed term contract early.

In your case you would still be expected to pay for the hardware subsidy you received when you entered into your term in January 2011.

Kate, thanks for chiming in. Can you explain your response a little further?

How is it that your own TOS states that the new terms supersede old terms, yet you claim they do not? Also, since a contract renewal involves the termination of the previous agreement without penalty, legally, how is it that Rogers intends to subsequently enforce the terms and penalties of a terminated agreement?