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Thread: LTE ICS Xoom SD support?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbman View Post
    He is just telling you how it actually works...not how you might think it "should" work.

    I would try to do a better job of not transferring your antipathy towards Google and Motorola to Susurro if I were you...might help you to see the situation in a clearer light.
    Red herring.

    KB. I see the situation quite clearly enough to hear you saying:
    'Hey man, that's how it is; get over it."
    I dig it. But I'm not concerned with "how it works", that is with SOP. My intent is to be and make clear what is actually going on. "Aye, there's the rub."

    And my quarrell with Surrurro is not about his industry apologist role and posture; he's fully entitled to any position he wants because, however much it may irk him, for the moment, at least, it's still a mostly free country. I take issue with his win-at-all-cost mentality and his disdain for logic and even truth unless they suit his purpose.

    What actually is going on is that Google is -- with complete malice aforethought -- doing whatever is necessary to eliminate the SD Card, or at least many of it's historical functions, without getting blamed too openly or directly for having done so.

    Susurro knows that full well. But he seems to think it's his job -- maybe it is, idk -- to obscure, twist, or spin that truth in order to present the industry, in this case Google, in the best light possible.

    If he could acknowledge other truths in going about presenting his own, I'd be OK with that. But no, he uses every trick in the book, even ad hominem, to twist things in his favor. I love truth for its own sake. I will defend it with vigor and determination. I resent its use by those who honor it only when it serves their purpose but have no scruples to spurn or spin any "inconvenient truth".

    And I don't resent Susurro, only his methods and tactics. Everyone has too many problems of his own to get too caught up in anyone else's. But I will -- without personal resentment -- call him out whenever I see him playing fast and loose with the truth.

    Perspective instantiates reality.
    [From DX by HoFo app.]
    Last edited by TC_Mits; 04-25-2012 at 08:35 AM.
    Learning Android root on my SGSIII while waiting for Ubuntu Phone OS.

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  2. #17
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    I would respectfully submit that your views of Susurro's character and motivations are heavily shaded by your own prejudices.

    He has shown little inclination to be an apologist for Google and even acknowledges Motorola's failings as he sees them, though they are obviously rather divergent from your own.
    kbman

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  3. #18
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    Perhaps so. But it's what I see in his posts.

    There is no shortage of folks with views divergent from my own but that present themselves in ways that do not elicit in me similar reservations.


    Perspective instantiates reality.
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  4. #19
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    I am sure I will be accused of being an apologist or twister again, but so be it.

    Can you please stop for 1 minute and think. You don't like the answer so you twist my posts to be against you. You keep making assumptions without looking at the facts. It is actually amusing to see you accusing me of twisting the facts while blatantly ignoring them. Now try and read what I write without reading "between the lines" or adding assumptions. Just read what I write.


    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    But I'm not concerned with "how it works", that is with SOP. My intent is to be and make clear what is actually going on. "Aye, there's the rub."
    But you don't care about what is going on, you care about what you think should be going on. You have an opinion on what Google should do, and since they don't you assume they are working against you.


    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    And my quarrell with Surrurro is not about his industry apologist role and posture; he's fully entitled to any position he wants because, however much it may irk him, for the moment, at least, it's still a mostly free country. I take issue with his win-at-all-cost mentality and his disdain for logic and even truth unless they suit his purpose.
    We have a quarrel? Okay. Should we start with some "yo mamma" jokes?
    Seriously, what do you suppose I am trying to win? I missed where this was a contest or there could be a winner.
    And yes, I wrote that knowing full well that you would respond that I am trying to change the conversation or make it appear that I am a good guy. And... I could care less.

    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    What actually is going on is that Google is -- with complete malice aforethought -- doing whatever is necessary to eliminate the SD Card, or at least many of it's historical functions, without getting blamed too openly or directly for having done so.
    I wonder what type of programmer you were?
    Do you think because Google does not have support for HDD drives they are showing malice? There are a lot of people that think HDD drives will show up in cell phones at some point, but Google doesn't support it. Why not? Because they are trying to eliminate HDD drives? Or because they don't think they are necessary so not worth the resources.
    Companies apply resources where there is value, and obviously Google does not see enough value in SD cards to justify the expense. Do you see value, well that is obvious.
    Do I, you don't know because I haven't said. I like having the SD card option and have used it, but I can also make do without. I would prefer to have the option. Obviously some OEMs do as well and add in SD card support. Again Google does not prevent it, they just don't add it in themselves or require it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    comments about truth and spining
    I shortened your post because, well because it was self-indulgent. If you really loved truth than you would be open to the idea that an action isn't necessarily good or bad, but could be indifferent.

    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    And I don't resent Susurro, only his methods and tactics. Everyone has too many problems of his own to get too caught up in anyone else's. But I will -- without personal resentment -- call him out whenever I see him playing fast and loose with the truth.
    My tactics? Like my master plan to dominate you on a forum and than... take over the world! Are you Pinky and I am the Brain? (get the reference or look it up, don't assume that is an insult. why do I have to say that?).
    Have you considered the possibility that it is you that is playing hard and fast with the truth and I am calling you out on it? Has that idea crossed your mind?

  5. #20
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    That was a very generous and earnest response to an open personal affront.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbman View Post
    That was a very generous and earnest response to an open personal affront.
    No. I see it as more of the same.

    No substance to it at all. Really on the level, albeit not the language, of the 'yo momma' cracks he references.


    Perspective instantiates reality.
    [From DX by HoFo app.]

  7. #22
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    I quit, you win. I have no idea how to explain it better to you than that and frankly it isn't worth the effort anymore.

  8. #23
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    This is a confusing thread!

    I myself like the MTP mode choice even though it seems to usually only show up on Google devices. My only wish is that stuff like the Asus Transformer with lots of ways to interface to SD, microSD, even USB thumb drives was a bit more robust. It all works, but if you plug in a usb storage device that might have more than one drive when plugged into windows, only the primary drive be seen on the Transformer(example being something like a thumb drive with some built in storage and a mircoSD reader slot).

    I do think Google should broaden their OS focus and try to combine Android and Chrome somehow into something that would target what Windows 8 is going to attempt. I have a fear Windows 8 and more so it's follow on, are going to again marginalize competition by dominating them. Window's still dominates anything that isn't extremely portable. Once 8 hits and the same base OS is on the portable and not so portable computing devices at the local computing retailers, I think people will appreciate that aspect and move away from whatever mobile platform they are currently using to the Windows 8 and subsequent versions slowly if there isn't a complete solution like that elsewhere.

    That kinda gets outside the SD card stuff, but seems the base argument going on is whether googles android development focus is proper or not. I think they do pretty well, but probably need to become more robust if they don't want MS to rule them all the sudden from left field. I dream of a device that will probably be able to happen with Windows 8 that acts as my mobile and less mobile device with docks and such. Windows 8 really seems like the most complete vision to make such devices more plausible than they are currently. That fact combined with x86 Atom on a phone could cause a unique device in the not so distant future that would be just like your home laptop(including full traditional windows application support due to x86 processor) docked in something like moto's lapdock and be a normal windows phone 8 otherwise. Not read enough on Windows 8 to know if Microsoft is going to support such a thing though??

    The above is the reason TC_Mits has a point about Google's Android development focus. Really Android and Chrome needed to merge yesterday to effectively battle the direction Microsoft is about to take. Apple could get taken by surprise with this also. I wouldn't be so Bullish on MS, but the fact Intel is also about to become a very competitive option in the phone space just has me a bit concerned about all the other players if for no other facts than I am extremely curious of the idea, even though I want Intel and MS to have valid competitors.

  9. #24
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    I kinda expected this thread to die. Nelly can chow down on that one.

    @Jasaero
    Actually, my concern here was rather narrowly centered on the SD Card -- or at least on high capacity handset removable storage, and the -- to me -- evident fact that Google wants to either eliminate or seriously restrict future availability/utility of this feature.

    Re: Win8, it would, in this context, be of interest to me to know what removable external storage options it brings to the table and how robustly they are supported.


    @Susurro. Was gonna just let it die with the thread. But if we're all still here...
    More follows.



    Perspective instantiates reality.
    [From DX by HoFo app.]
    Last edited by TC_Mits; 05-01-2012 at 06:44 AM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    I kinda expected this thread to die. Nelly can chow down on that one.

    @Jasaero
    Actually, my concern here was rather narrowly centered on the SD Card -- or at least on high capacity handset removable storage, and the --to me -- evident fact that Google wants to either eliminate or seriously restrict future availability/utility of this feature.

    Re: Win8, it would, in this context, be of interest to me to know what removable external storage options it brings to the table and how robustly they are supported.


    @Susurro. Was gonna just let it die with the thread. But if we're all still here...
    More follows.



    Perspective instantiates reality.
    [From DX by HoFo app.]
    I tend to think it's more as Susurro states. The Android team is not like the Windows team with almost limitless revenues to staff from. This is actually the aspect that has me fearful that Windows will be the eventual winner, even if they have stumbled in the mobile space and are now well behind Google. Shoot they are actually drawing significant revenues from Android while windows Phone is well behind to help fund Windows 8 development. And I really have no extreme knowledge of the Android vs Windows team sizes, but I know MS's bread and butter is Windows so basically expect that the WIndows 8 team is pretty sizable. Also it seems google is always developing all sorts of odd stuff that ends up failing and never going anywhere, but probably draws decent staffs anyhow. I prefer googles more marketing and ad focused monetization approach though as I am cheap and would be happy to live in a glass house if'n it were free.

    But as far as SD card stuff goes, I really think Google is just limited in what aspect they focus on. UI and overall experience seems to be the focus they have had for awhile now as they try to make the devices running it more competitive with Apple. I just don't see why Google would care one way or the other how completely supported SD stuff is. And really I find it pretty normal to want to install apps in the same drive area as the OS. I find SD to be more for media files and the current setup with SD seems to work pretty well for that even if the device builders have to help make it work. With windows lots of stuff you can do is dependent on drivers and odd little things done in software and developed by the device builder rather than Microsoft. Over the years much of it has come to work better once Microsoft made the stuff work at a lower level with a new windows release I guess.

    Sometimes I'm all in for supporting some conspiracy, but in this case I just don't see it. It all seems more related to the whole open and kinda random way Linux and hence android mount and recognize storage devices. I've always been annoyed with how unix and Linux mount new drives kinda willy nilly however the entity controlling the mount wants to do it. I am sure there is more to this problem than that, but seems to stem from this aspect of the Linux file system and other random device support.

  11. #26
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    One thing at a time. Gonna let the SD issue slide for the moment.

    Perspective instantiates reality.
    [From DX by HoFo app.]

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    I quit, you win. I have no idea how to explain it better to you than that and frankly it isn't worth the effort anymore.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    This is a long post because your habit of ignoring points made previously that don't conform to your thesis requires me to repeat myself.
    .


    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    I am sure I will be accused of being an apologist or twister again, but so be it.
    So it is.

    Really, just about your whole post is on the children's spat, 'are so' -- 'am not' level. Adult language but no substance.

    I don't think I have shortened it anywhere.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Can you please stop for 1 minute and think. You don't like the answer so you twist my posts to be against you.
    Where are you getting the idea that I think you are against me? It's not about me at all. And it's usually the absence of a straightforward answer -- caginess -- that I don't find satisfying.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    You keep making assumptions without looking at the facts. It is actually amusing to see you accusing me of twisting the facts while blatantly ignoring them.
    Again why do you assume I think you feel I am important enough for you to single out?

    Which facts exactly am I ignoring? Substance please.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Now try and read what I write without reading "between the lines" or adding assumptions. Just read what I write.
    Nonsense. You live "between the lines". I will be looking there; not to, is to miss your intent altogether.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    But you don't care about what is going on, you care about what you think should be going on. You have an opinion on what Google should do, and since they don't you assume they are working against you.
    Again, where are you getting the idea that this is so personal for me?
    Read my sig: "Resistance is futile." Google's gonna do what Google's gonna do. NBD. I'd rather it just say outright, "Google believes there are media pirates who must be stopped, so SD Card support will be phased out of all future Android releases." Done.
    Or whatever the genuine truth is...
    No doubt you'll provide it.

    What is perhaps more personal, to me, is that people have a chance to see "what is going on".

    But this is not about me. I'll deal.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    We have a quarrel? Okay. Should we start with some "yo mamma" jokes?
    It is acceptable English usage to speak of a one-sided quarrel. I might also have a quarrel with a public figure, or policy, for example. I do not presume I would be important enough to you for you to bother having a quarrel with me.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Seriously, what do you suppose I am trying to win? I missed where this was a contest or there could be a winner.
    What I perceive you trying to win is positive image and public opinion for the cellular industry.
    I see you as a 'spin doctor'.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    And yes, I wrote that knowing full well that you would respond that I am trying to change the conversation or make it appear that I am a good guy. And... I could care less.
    Actually, I suspect you probably are a 'good guy'. But I don't and won't know you, so it's not particularly important -- we seem to agree on that.

    I'm focused on the content and impact of your posts.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    I wonder what type of programmer you were?
    What you say, here, is not at all what you mean. This is an example where failure to 'read between the lines' misses entirely your subtle ad hominem intent -- like a good defense attorney introducing doubt.

    I honestly don't know if you'll dispute something so self-evident or not.

    You may, now that I've stepped in, find an entirely different way to read the sentence. If so, it's not obvious now...
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Do you think because Google does not have support for HDD drives they are showing malice? There are a lot of people that think HDD drives will show up in cell phones at some point, but Google doesn't support it. Why not? Because they are trying to eliminate HDD drives? Or because they don't think they are necessary so not worth the resources.
    Companies apply resources where there is value, and obviously Google does not see enough value in SD cards to justify the expense.
    OK. Some meat here. This is a non sequitur red herring. But, even so, a passable example in support of your -- unnecessarily repeated -- argument.

    It points up the obvious: that you are not posting to convince me of anything. I've heard and restated this point of yours already above. You posit, as I have already noted, that Google's opposition to the SD Card is passive. I believe it to be active, conscious, and willful.

    But, I see no benefit in rehashing that now. It's well-stated, on both sides, elsewhere.

    What may merit restatement is that I strongly suspect -- no, I believe, actually -- that you know I'm right about this, but for other reasons find it necessary to oppose that perceived truth anyway.

    Oh. I see that, as predicted, you had to slip the cost thing in there. As I indicate above, it ain't about cost -- but I'll let that slide for now.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Do you see value, well that is obvious.
    Again, subtle ad hominem. I did not state that argument in personal terms. I guess that could count as a twist, then. You think?
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Do I, you don't know because I haven't said. I like having the SD card option and have used it, but I can also make do without. I would prefer to have the option.
    And, surprise, so do you. So we both disagree with Google here? Remind me where the difference is again? Oh yeah, active vs. passive, right.

    Why would you suppose that I think you don't value at all the SD function. You are again presumptively reducing the matter to the personal. I don't see that I had a need to know your personal preference.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Obviously some OEMs do as well and add in SD card support. Again Google does not prevent it, they just don't add it in themselves or require it.
    This again supports your 'sin of omission not of commission' approach. I don't want to get into all that now.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    I shortened your post because, well because it was self-indulgent.
    Even before going back to see what was excised, I can say with confidence that you elided it due to valid content and not out of any altruistic desire to insulate anyone from my self-indulgence.

    OK. Here's what was omitted as "self-serving":
    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    Susurro knows that full well. But he seems to think it's his job -- maybe it is, idk -- to obscure, twist, or spin that truth in order to present the industry, in this case Google, in the best light possible.

    If he could acknowledge other truths in going about presenting his own, I'd be OK with that. But no, he uses every trick in the book, even ad hominem, to twist things in his favor. I love truth for its own sake. I will defend it with vigor and determination. I resent its use by those who honor it only when it serves their purpose but have no scruples to spurn or spin any "inconvenient truth".
    ...
    You know... looking at that in the context in which you have placed it, Susurro, I see no need to comment. It's elision speaks far more eloquently of the relative regard for truth than anything I could say. So, yes, it has indeed, with your assistance, served my arguments, at least, quite well.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    If you really loved truth than you would be open to the idea that an action isn't necessarily good or bad, but could be indifferent.
    From the POV of conscious motive, I absolutely agree -- indeed it's too obvious to support your need to state it -- that, "action isn't necessarily good or bad, but could be indifferent."

    I just don't see that as what's happening with Google and the SD in this situation. I concur with your statement of principle, but not with it's application.

    And, yes, truth is my object, just as single-mindedly as winning is yours.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    My tactics? Like my master plan to dominate you on a forum...
    It's not about me, Susurro. I wonder -- only -- whether you can relate at all to the idea that a person can be passionately concerned with an immaterial abstraction, like truth, without any personal investment in the outcome?
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    My tactics? Like my master plan to dominate you on a forum and than... take over the world!
    No, your tactics like unwarranted hyperbole that casts invalid aspersions on your opponents. You do that a lot.

    I may deal separately with the matter of tactics in another post.
    This one's already way too long.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Are you Pinky and I am the Brain? (get the reference or look it up, don't assume that is an insult. why do I have to say that?).
    I am not concerned with your heavy reliance on ad hominem tactics because of their personally insulting or demeaning tone. For that, I couldn't care less.

    But resorting to personal attacks reflects a weak argument in terms of content, substance, and logic. So it means that, more than smearing me, you are attempting to obscure -- with smoke and mirrors, so to speak -- the truth. If you hold the high ground of fact and reality, it is foolish to wallow in the fen of denigration.
    ***

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Have you considered the possibility that it is you that is playing hard and fast with the truth and I am calling you out on it? Has that idea crossed your mind?
    And full circle back to the childish...
    'Am not!'
    ***


    Perspective instantiates reality.
    [From DX by HoFo app.]
    Last edited by TC_Mits; 05-01-2012 at 06:00 PM.

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