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Thread: Bionic successor

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    Bionic successor

    The Bionic is a dead end in design,AFAIK. I am also on my second one and am concerned. With no quad core on the horizon, is it worth ditching the droids for SG III or a Note 2? I wanted opinions of Moto owners first instead of placing this a general thread.

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    I meant the HTC version of the Note.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldheld View Post
    The Bionic is a dead end in design,AFAIK. I am also on my second one and am concerned. With no quad core on the horizon, is it worth ditching the droids for SG III or a Note 2? I wanted opinions of Moto owners first instead of placing this a general thread.

    1. What do you mean by dead end?

    2. Why the second one?

    3. Is it working? Then why ditch? I don't think quad core will be as dramatic.

    4. Mine's always worked fine and while I do want the Note, I wouldn't drop Bionic.

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    I think that the hardware design is not going to evolve from what is in the Bionic. I want ot use the next phone as an ereader so a larger screen and maybe resolution is useful. I believe that the quad core will be able to run emulators more efficiently than dual core. I am not convinced that getting another dual core at 1.5 GHz will make any real improvement in performance but the 4+1 cores might. FAUguy?

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    It maybe dead end as far as the removeable batteries and sd card since other phones are moving away from that. But those are features I want to keep. I just looked at google books and it was very nice. Screen plenty big. Also saw an app named cool reader.

    So why did you get a second phone?


    Spoken from my DROID BIONIC using HowardForums

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldheld View Post
    I think that the hardware design is not going to evolve from what is in the Bionic. I want ot use the next phone as an ereader so a larger screen and maybe resolution is useful. I believe that the quad core will be able to run emulators more efficiently than dual core. I am not convinced that getting another dual core at 1.5 GHz will make any real improvement in performance but the 4+1 cores might. FAUguy?
    Dual core stuff like the Qualcomm S4 and eventual A15 parts WILL offer SIGNIFICANT clock for clock performance improvements and do a lot of less threaded(stuff that can only use one core or maybe only 2) things better than even Quad core. The S4 stuff is going to be hard to get, but VZW could have a S4 device in limited quantities before you ever see quadcore stuff. This is probably what some HTC Note like device would use and it WOULD be a good upgrade to something like Bionic.

    Depending on the task though the Qualcomm Krait or A15 cores can be WAY faster CLOCK for CLOCK than A9 that we are all used to and that most all early Quadcore stuff will have. There will probably be Quadcore S4 though before we even see dual core A15. That's all kind of dependent on the fabs ability to get yields up on 28nm parts really though.

    And some of the rumors are suggesting that the next RAZR, the RAZR HD could end up going with S4. That fact and the yield issues with 28nm are the reason it probably isn't supposed to show up until late summer early fall though around the same time the HTC Note thing you asked about might land if it really exists.

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    I am concerned about the future fixed batteries and sd cards.
    I have not gotten another phone, yet, just asking for advice, since I am looking for a larger screen and more horsepower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldheld View Post
    I am concerned about the future fixed batteries and sd cards.
    I have not gotten another phone, yet, just asking for advice, since I am looking for a larger screen and more horsepower.
    Pretty sure the fixed battery and sd card stuff is going to be an issue with the HTC options as they have stated as much basically. They basically said it helps them make the device thinner and that is going to be their focus. So it seems thin devices with fixed batteries and maybe maybe not mSD are the going to be the norm now.

    Qualcomm S4 is probably your best bet for more horsepower and there should be plenty of devices with it, but they will either be hard to get ahold of or launched late do to yields as I already stated. I would guess a quadcore device of some sort might pop up also, but so far none of them have been promised in LTE phones. I think anyone that does their own LTE baseband can probably do one, but it's probably a lot more work and most are just going with S4 since it's a complete solution that's easy to get to market and competitive with quadcore offerings in most respects and better in many.

    I'm with you on the larger screen, but clueless as to whether VZW has anything actually in the works. Also with you on removable battery and SD cards. Hopefully we will be in luck.

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    I am uncertain that all of the benchmark software ate optimize for quad core. If the IPhone 5 is a quad core phone, wouldn't the other manufacturers have theirs out in the same tineframe?
    Finally with a fixed battery how do you reboot when the phone freezes?

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    Finally with a fixed battery how do you reboot when the phone freezes?
    Whether removable or not, most phones should have a reboot key sequence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldheld View Post
    I am uncertain that all of the benchmark software ate optimize for quad core. If the IPhone 5 is a quad core phone, wouldn't the other manufacturers have theirs out in the same tineframe?
    Finally with a fixed battery how do you reboot when the phone freezes?
    Pretty sure more benchmark apps are going to show quad core advantage than apps you might use regularlyapps. The sorts doing benchmarks apps want to make sure they reflect stuff hitting the market right away. The rest need to feel their app has some weakness or speed problem on hardware they first developed for. Basically there may be apps that show up or get new features targeted at quad core, but those won't hit until there is plenty of hardware with quad on the street. Not to mention S4 can double quad A9 on some tasks so is almost like 4 cores with 2 and still only needing optimization for two threads.

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    I have to agree that benchmarks do not always reflect real work situations.
    I recall that someone on this forum was very negative about Snapdragon. I also found this interesting: http://www.phonearena.com/news/Exyno...axy-S3_id29615.
    Not quite an aside, but is Motorola abandoing the OMAPs for other chipsets?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldheld View Post
    I have to agree that benchmarks do not always reflect real work situations.
    I recall that someone on this forum was very negative about Snapdragon. I also found this interesting: http://www.phonearena.com/news/Exyno...axy-S3_id29615.
    Not quite an aside, but is Motorola abandoing the OMAPs for other chipsets?
    Snapdragon with Scorpion cores was slower than A9 per core so probably caused some hating once A9 parts started to hit. Snapdragon with Krait cores is a whole different story. Scorpion is to A9 what Krait is to A15. There is a chance though that Krait will be more competitive with A15 than Scorpion was with A9. Basically Qualcomm and ARM have kinda middled core development cycles where Qualcomm get's next gen cores out a decent bit ahead of ARM core licensing partners as Qualcomm has license to design their own cores rather than just integrate ARM designed cores.

    Basically using current marketing Qualcomm S4 is massively different beast than S3 at the same clock speeds. Until A15 parts are available, I would probably prefer S4 to any 4 core A9's. Some tasks the doubled core count will be better, but lots of common stuff is going to be faster on S4.

    What will be interesting is just how A15 compares to Krait for most tasks. It seems Krait may end up closer to A15 than Scorpion was to A9. Intel could end up invalidating both in the high end by hitting 22nm first with dual or quad x86 phone part middle of next year though not too long after A15 hits at 28nm. Their first phone processor is looking quite competitive or better than lots of dual core stuff with one core at 32nm. 22nm with 2 or 4 cores and possibly better cores by that point since Atom is due for a bit of core improvement also. Pretty sure their first try is just to prove that X86 can be competitive on a phone. Subsequent parts will probably move them toward the top of the hill pretty fast. Could mean cheap top end phones also as Intel seems to have done really well at making easy to exploit reference design that generic 3rd parties can now just pump out.

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    This is helpful. Since this has been a CPU weighted discussion, for the GPUs does the same general reasoning apply?
    I suppose that we have to wait 3 more days for the official announcements from Samsung. I would expect they would give specs for the US as well as the International version.
    I did go to the AT&T store to try out the Note. For noncalling(which I did not try), the phone did not seem too large.

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    GPU's are even more confusing. With CPU's and ARM you really only have ARM designed then licensed cores and Qualcomm designed cores on a ARM compatible license. So two different cores. When you start to talk GPU's there is the Qualcomm ones that were bought from ATI way back before they were part of AMD, ARM Mali GPU designs licensed from ARM(think only Samsung has used these so far), PowerVR licensed from Imagination Technologies(Most common), and finally the nVidia designed ones used in their Tegra Processors. So you go from 2 to 4 unique designs and on top of that GPU's tend to use a parallel design that has lots of simplified cpus running graphics code in parallel so within each design there are different "sized" version with different numbers of processors and different areas of die and power they will use. And beyond that the designs can vary a lot in terms of what the cores on the different designs are good at. I really don't play games or do lots of GPU intensive stuff so worry less about this until some point where you have more parallel generic tasks getting offloaded to the GPU and it's doing computing other than just graphics. And really I think GPU stuff probably ends up somewhat game specific. Most phone games are probably optimized for PowerVR since it's most common and will probably run a bit better on it, but some game that targets Tegra might not look as nice on PowerVR.

    Someone that's more concerned with gaming or other GPU tasks might be more help in what GPU is best when buying a phone than I. The ARM Mali seems to really test well, but I think that may have something to do with the common GPU tests not really being reflective of common games rather than the reality of how fast it really is or how well it actually runs your favored games. My gut says that Tegra will evolve as the best gamers phone GPU line though as nVidia already works so closely with all the game design firms compared to the rest.

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