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Thread: Bionic successor

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsweetness View Post
    You'd better check your facts again. Motorola doesn't ship their phones with unlocked bootloaders nor do they provide an unlock solution after release. Since the Droid/Milestone, they've only released one major device with an unlocked bootloader - the recent RAZR Developer Edition. That's it. The Atrix had its bootloader unlocked only because of some leaked files. Nothing was ever officially released.

    I agree that in most cases the carrier is the major reason for locked bootloaders, but in the case of Motorola, it's definitely on them as well.
    The Motorola Triumph, Atrix, Atrix 2, and Photon all are high end phones that have bootloader that can be unlocked by doing a search on XDA using a Motorola tool, and funny enough none of them are on Verizon. Verizon has 4 high end Motorola phones, the Bionic, the Razr, the Razr Maxx, and the Droid 4, and none of them have bootloaders that have been unlocked. Coincidence much? I think not.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using HowardForums

  2. #47
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    I expect someone from XDA to root and ad worse dual boot a new Moto phone. Still it would be less effort to have it unlocked and easily rooted.
    Assuming we can get a variant, would the LG eclipse "superphone" be locked down?

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by akhi216 View Post
    The carriers are to blame. Motorola phones on non-VZW carriers are either shipped with unlocked bootloaders or they have a bootloader unlock solution within a few weeks of their release. Motorola has stated that Verizon doesn't allow the bootloaders on their (Motorola's) phones to be unlocked on their network per their (Motorola's) bootloader policy. If Motorola doesn't lock down their phones, Verizon won't sell them no matter what their policy is.

    Motorola only locks down phones that the carriers require them to do.

    It's most certainly not the time to leave Motorola (Mobility) now that Google is so close to buying them out...not if you like Android.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using HowardForums
    Yeah. I think behind the scenes this is probably a pretty complicated subject that isn't exactly cut and dry so much as decided according to OEMs need of VZW and VZW's need of the OEM sorta stuff. A device OEM that just doesn't need VZW business really bad as their devices are well marketed and sold on other carriers such as HTC can get away with a LOT more on VZW than an OEM like Motorola that almost HAS to have VZW to even have hardly ANY devices sold in the US. So basically Motorola's extreme need to sell devices on VZW gives VZW a lot of power over Motorola to dictate how the device is setup and what Motorola can or can't do.

    The biggest annoyance I have is that VZW must be VERY strict in that they will put an outright ban on an OEM from ever getting a VZW sponsored and marketed device if that OEM chooses to try and sell an Open device with no VZW input on the side from VZW's open device portal here:

    http://opennetwork.verizonwireless.com/

    If you look up the devices available through that portal almost all are commercial orient devices and gizmo's since companies tend to the only ones not all concerned with subsidy and contract money related stuffs that you just won't get in buy a nonVZW marketed device. There is one consumer smartphone sorta device in there, but it's from a no name company that has apparently never got it into production.

    There is ZERO reason a MOTO, HTC, or Samsung could not be available through that program unless VZW is essentially sorta blackmailing the OEMs when it comes to requirements for getting a device marketed and unofficially sold subsidized through VZW and such. I am sure Moto, HTC, or Samsung would like to market an open device 100% unmolested by VZW(software updates and all since those are delayed mostly by VZW) to us on the side, but VZW is obviously not allowing them to do so. Even the Nexus has been molested by VZW as can be seen with the GSM Nexus getting updates that have yet to be seen on the VZW one if you ignore the VZW software. This would not have to be the case if Google has just went through the open device portal. My guess is though the blackmailing Samsung endures goes so far as to included devices being pushed by google, but build by Samsung.

    I am actually wondering if these facts and the coming inability to upgrade and get subsidies without losing Unlimited data are part of the reason Google actually purchased Motorola. Most OEMs will probably stick with VZW's marketing and sales to sell their devices rather than give up that market to try and help people stay on unlimited plans with independently marketed open devices. Depending on how extreme the VZW blackmailing is, Google may have needed an actual OEM to push a VZW Nexus on their own that was fully open.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsweetness View Post
    You'd better check your facts again. Motorola doesn't ship their phones with unlocked bootloaders nor do they provide an unlock solution after release. Since the Droid/Milestone, they've only released one major device with an unlocked bootloader - the recent RAZR Developer Edition. That's it. The Atrix had its bootloader unlocked only because of some leaked files. Nothing was ever officially released.

    I agree that in most cases the carrier is the major reason for locked bootloaders, but in the case of Motorola, it's definitely on them as well.
    I would consider this only partially true. I think Motorola is just a generally desperate company when it comes to getting carrier support. I say partially because I think they do have an old school ideal that their stuff should be very locked up protected and proprietary in a way that I do not think HTC or Samsung are so concerned about as they have got where they are through industry standards and cooperation rather than internal proprietary research and such like Motorola or Nokia. Nokia was always a good bit more open though for whatever reasons??

    I think Motorola will be forced by Google to open up though if my theory on why they may have actually purchased them in the last post holds true. Google I am quite certain has an axe to grind with VZW at some point. I am just confused why they have put so much effort into being cooperative to this point?? It really may be related to how VZW deals with the OEMs that Google has decided to market devices through to this point. They can build them outright as their own with Moto now though.....so this cooperative approach may end.

  5. #50
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    It is difficult to say what is correct. I would not count Motorola out, but there needs to be a change perhaps if Google sees Verizon phones independently?
    Althopugh I am not jumping to AT&T, I wonder if we do not our share of the best high end phones.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasaero View Post
    Google I am quite certain has an axe to grind with VZW at some point. I am just confused why they have put so much effort into being cooperative to this point?? It really may be related to how VZW deals with the OEMs that Google has decided to market devices through to this point. They can build them outright as their own with Moto now though.....so this cooperative approach may end.

    Maybe because you can honestly say that Android got popular thanks to Verizon marketing dollars.

    Than look at the 4 big US carriers...
    AT&T- iPhone all day, every day, and in the back corner you can find Android.
    Sprint- iPhone all day until that hit that huge number they promised Apple. They have nice Android phones, but they have to generate iPhone sales.
    T-Mobile- Android and iPhone are about equal (amazing there are that many unlocked iPhones on TMO, but check it out).
    Verizon- Android first. They hate the iPhone (the subsidies are a lot higher and Apple controls), although they hate the Nexus as well. Verizon's top phone right now, the one they push the hardest... Droid RAZR.

    So if you were Google, would you like Verizon or have an ax to grind? Don't fool yourself, Google cares about revenue first and Verizon is their best bet.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susurro View Post
    Maybe because you can honestly say that Android got popular thanks to Verizon marketing dollars.

    Than look at the 4 big US carriers...
    AT&T- iPhone all day, every day, and in the back corner you can find Android.
    Sprint- iPhone all day until that hit that huge number they promised Apple. They have nice Android phones, but they have to generate iPhone sales.
    T-Mobile- Android and iPhone are about equal (amazing there are that many unlocked iPhones on TMO, but check it out).
    Verizon- Android first. They hate the iPhone (the subsidies are a lot higher and Apple controls), although they hate the Nexus as well. Verizon's top phone right now, the one they push the hardest... Droid RAZR.

    So if you were Google, would you like Verizon or have an ax to grind? Don't fool yourself, Google cares about revenue first and Verizon is their best bet.
    I could see this as true up until more recently. Even AT&T is no longer a huge iPhone fan and has sold phones such as the LTE SII quite well. For their LTE push it will be mostly android just as any other carrier initially also. I'm sure Apple will have an LTE device soon enough, but they don't yet.

    At the end the day though I know for a fact Google is interested in getting more open devices out in the wild that are not somehow tied to particular networks and are available without subsidies for VERY affordable prices. And They don't want their users paying crazy prices for every GB of data either. Sure they have mostly VZW to thank for really getting Android off the ground, but I HIGHLY doubt they want VZW to be extremely successful in converting all their grandfathered customers over to bucketed data plans priced as they are likely to be priced initially. And they aren't going to be able to convince VZW to sell devices on the cheap as they are doing with unlocked GSM Galaxy Nexus for $100 bucks over the subsidized price the VZW Nexus initially had.

    Basically, I kinda understand what you are saying, but I am pretty sure Google has a HUGE vested in interest in helping people who still have unlimited data plans keep it that way. Right now most people don't use too much data for the bucketed plans, but the sorts of things that really make connected smartphones like Android phones nice WILL create massive increases in data use over time. Stuff like Netflix, Pandora, and other streaming services are only going to become more popular on the mobile. The mobile platform that caters to such things and helps make using them easier and hence expands their use the best will tend to be the most successful in my opinion.

    Google understands this and I am sure sees this pending effort to push people off unlimited data before they realize just how valuable that is. It is all together possible the networks will force us all off it at some point anyhow, but I don't think you come to that point unless someone like Google is successful in helping people understand they don't need subsidies to upgrade to more modern devices latest devices affordably.

    Google did NOT do what they did during the 700mhz spectrum auctions for show PURE and SIMPLE. And if you think the Moto buy does not tie into that whole side of how Google thinks things should be, you are fooling yourself. Sure they are claiming other things, but that was a battle line drawn in a war and you can't be public about your long term strategy in fighting such a war. In my opinion the whole cooperation and willingness to play with and help VZW upto this point has been more a "keep your friends close and enemies closer" sorta deal than anything else. Their enemy is not AT&T or one of the smaller ones and never has been since VZW took the whole C-Block with the rules Google got attached to it.

  8. #53
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    This is all informative, but for the rest of this year, shouldn't we expect more of the same from Verizon(in terms of phones and their lovkdowns)?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldheld View Post
    This is all informative, but for the rest of this year, shouldn't we expect more of the same from Verizon(in terms of phones and their lovkdowns)?
    Possibly. The rumor that Google might push a line of unlocked phones through the Play store could include a VZW compatible phone for all we know. This rumor is what is driving my speculations above. I am not sure VZW would make getting such an unlocked phone into the public's hands a really easy task for Google though. Basically even if Google is ready to burn a bridge and fire the first public shot in the war I am suggesting has been brewing since the 700mhz auction, they would need a manufacturing partner to do so. I don't think the Motorola buy has been closed long enough for them to be that partner and know for a fact they would have been the LAST partner before the buyout to create an Alliance with Google in such a public war.

    I would actually not be surprised if Google would have liked to also sell the VZW Nexus in a configuration software wise fully under Googles control through the Play Store, but was not allowed blocked by VZW from doing so. Although so far it's looking like the Sprint ones will only be available through normal Sprint channels only also and not on the Play store. This even though Sprint is more friendly about letting Google do their own thing allowing official Wallet loading and such.

    This year though I don't see much hope for a new device that is mostly open like the Galaxy Nexus on VZW. It is possible there will be a line of Jelly Bean Nexus devices as the rumors suggest, but if that happens this year, I would expect them to be all GSM unlocked devices for AT&T and T-Mobile as those carriers don't car that much about such things as they have had to deal with unlocked device use on their networks all along. Eventually this will be true of all the networks once they all get switched to LTE and there are multiband LTE devices capable of working on any network. That's a ways off, but will eventually happen.

  10. #55
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    It sounds as if get the best phone by the end of this year from Motorola, HTC, Samsung with Android 4 or 5, and hope for real changes in 2013?

  11. #56
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    Disregard.

  12. #57
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    With the Google-Motora metger effectively done, should I expect a Nexus to add to the 3 or 4 phone I am waiting for by Black Friday?

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    Quote Originally Posted by akhi216 View Post
    The Motorola Triumph, Atrix, Atrix 2, and Photon all are high end phones that have bootloader that can be unlocked by doing a search on XDA using a Motorola tool, and funny enough none of them are on Verizon. Verizon has 4 high end Motorola phones, the Bionic, the Razr, the Razr Maxx, and the Droid 4, and none of them have bootloaders that have been unlocked. Coincidence much? I think not.
    Yeah, I know, and that's why I mentioned that the Atrix can have its bootloader unlocked. But the process uses an unofficial Motorola tool. So, Motorola has not officially unlocked any bootloaders on high end phones since they started locking them. Now, did they intentionally leak the unlock tools? That's a different story that could be speculated on. But it still wouldn't change that fact that Motorola has not unlocked the bootloader on any high end phone officially like Samsung and HTC have done, both of which have unlockable phones on Verizon. That's why I say it's not all on the carriers. Does Verizon play a role in it? Absolutely. Do they play a large role in it? Sure. But Motorola, as jasaero said, does seem to feel the need to lock things up and protect their stuff to a greater extent than HTC and Samsung do. They're definitely not putting up any resistance to locking the bootloaders down on all of their phones.

  14. #59
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    That is maybe a reason to try HTC or Samsung.
    Too bad there is nothing definitive on the new Google devices.

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    Just noticed this. Are the Moto and HTC bans causing VZW to go ahead and try and get the SIII right away incase they have trouble getting other devices out of Customs?? To this point they have never got a new gen Galaxy until well after others, but this seems to suggest they could be one of the earlier networks with the SIII. I just can't figure out why they would make that happen unless their is trouble with Moto and HTC supplying them. Could be component supply as much as bans also if this version doesn't use Qualcomm.

    http://www.droid-life.com/2012/05/22...can-we-see-it/

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