Blackberry 10 preview

[Supa_Fly]

Not really that important to mention, but a tablet with a keyboard is called a laptop .

Actually it IS with mentioning and guess what you're wrong.

The 68% worldwide market leader that pretty much killed net books with the first ultra book that also dominates tablets sure has hell proved that wrong.

[mick662]

I love a good challenge. Of ALL the post reply's after mine (quoted below) above - I still hear personal opinion reasons that more or less sound like preference.

Of course it's a personal opinion/preference; just as your affinity for touchscreen keyboards is your personal opinion/preference.

What I do find odd is the keyboard bunch don't harp on tablets having to ship with keyboards?

No one is harping on RIM for making a device with a touchscreen keyboard. All I see is people hoping they also make a device with a physical keyboard for those who prefer it.

[lmcjipo]

Same here. Unfortunately, our 9700 units won't last forever. When it dies, guess I'll have to go with an Android.

BTW - If you look at posts for the past 6 months, the hope was release by the end of 2012. Today's NY Times used that "figure". I normally add 2-4 months to any announced RIM "product available for sale date" - so I have assumed Spring of 2013. My old phone is working fine now - and may get a 9810 if mine does die later in the year.
I need a physical keyboard - so if it becomes clear in the next few months that RIM has abandoned keyboards altogether in future phones - I will get a 9810 as my last BB and worry about my next phone later.

My Bold 9700 is still going strong (battery still maintains charge, all keys on keyboard work, etc.). However, as you mentioned, it is showing its age running BBOS 6.0 (not enough memory to install the programs that I want, slow, etc.).

For me, I bought my Blackberry for the keyboard. I've used physical keyboards on my phones since the Handspring Treo 600. If I wanted a touchscreen phone for e-mailing/chatting/etc., I would just use my iPhone 3GS or my Nexus-S. I can type faster on the physical keyboard of my Blackberry Bold 9700 than I can on the virtual keyboard of my iPhone 3GS or my Nexus-S.

[Linde]

Definitely a Blackberry without a keyboard hampers its main purpose - messaging. Without a physical keyboard, it seems to lose what makes the brand unique.

[Borteep]

Actually it IS with mentioning and guess what you're wrong.

The 68% worldwide market leader that pretty much killed net books with the first ultra book that also dominates tablets sure has hell proved that wrong.

Seriously? That fallacy is called "argumentum ad populum". By that logic, Bose makes the best stereos, McDonalds makes the best burgers, Oprah is the best counsellor, and so on.

In any case, they've announced plans to release a keyboard phone with BB10, so this whole line of discussion is pointless.

Sent from my Desire Z using HowardForums

[TC_Mits]

@Prom1
So you're still at it?

I've explained this to you before. So I know it's not that you don't understand ...

Anyone who uses a keyboard with one finger and /or looks at the keys or at their hand when typing will do just fine on a virtual keyboard. Swype may even be faster for those folks than a physical QWERTY.

Typists who watch the display "and let their fingers do the walking" on the keys must have physical keys with discrete palpable edges to do so. If you touch-type, tools like Swype and word completion will mostly just slow you down. Vibrate feedback is useless for blindly locating the correct positon of the key among it's neighbors before you press.

This issue continues to usurp entire threads to no good end. And it's simply because these two different styles of typing approach the keyboard differently.

Neither physical nor virtual keyboards are inherently superior in all situations. Rather each is best suited to the needs of a particular type of user.

Prom1, I know how you like an "intense debate" but please stop stirring up trouble unnecessarily like this. You already know better.


Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]

[Supa_Fly]

Hofo

Linde,

The main purpose of a BB is two fold: communication & collaboration.
There are many forms of communication: emails, SMS, mms, calls, (sign language or dictaphone/TelePrompter), OCS/Linx, BBM, etc that a BB can perform.

Collaboration: BBM, Twitter, FaceBook, SharePoint, Citrix Viewer or Cisco WebEx (whiteboard feature), etc.

Email is NO LONGER unique to the BB (corporate / personal) and hasn't for a few years now. That statement was valid on its own 4ys ago. The brand has thrived & survived beyond emails for a while before the stock/device sales spiral downward.

Borteep,

This line of argument is not pointless. Just cause you choose to not like it or that you're annoyed/bored (what have you) of the topic doesn't mean it has no value.

Borstep & TC_Mits,

Technology changes at a breakneck pace pausing at roadblocks (costs, implementation for various reasons, acceptance, cannot be marketed for revenue/sales, etc). The point of the topic of HW vs SW Keyboards was not to change opinions - sure we try on both sides - nor for the sake of rebuttal; but to revisit opinions based on the changes of technology or how existing technology applies.

The same debate over command line vs GUI went on for decades - that I'm sure was "argumentum ad populum" yet here we are using GUI in so many computer OS with richer applications uses - the Internet is borne from this (funny enough from command line/code). I'm sure you don't isolate your computer time at even 50% of the day using command line; hardly anyone does outside of IT support areas.

argumentum ad populum is used daily as argumentum ad numerum from governments right down to the streets/jails.

I simply wanted to have someone express why they believe in their choice - and challenge them to intellectually backup their choice hoping it wasn't made based on what they know as comfort or verbatim. Instead I was shunned for trying - TC_Mits is the only one that rose to that sharing both sides with taking any.

And this is a forum for conversation sharing or challenging ideas - nobody is insulting nor causing a forum battle; if I'm mistaken please she'd light on how I did this.

[TC_Mits]

No, Prom1, I can't say you started a "battle", at least where KBs are concerned. But you do know from experience that raising the issue generally has that efffect.

I applaud your insightful GUI vs. cmd-line analogy. The command line remains a powerful and productive tool for those skilled in its use, but the typical user has no need of it. The parallel to KBs fails, I think you will recognize, at your "50%" level, though.

It is most unlikely that any economically viable technological advance will provide the touch-typist with an effective replacement for discrete palpable keys on a physical KB any time soon.

Have to quote you here:

argumentum ad populum is used daily as argumentum ad numerum from governments right down to the streets/jails.

You realize, of course, that that is itself a fallacious "populum" argument.


Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]

[AlexKidd1977]

I applaud your insightful GUI vs. cmd-line analogy. The command line remains a powerful and productive tool for those skilled in its use, but the typical user has no need of it. The parallel to KBs fails, I think you will recognize, at your "50%" level, though.

Windows Server and Linux are both converging similarly. While Windows Server began it's years and matured over them to facilitate easy maintenance by mere mortals in small offices, they've grown into the cloud and internet eras. With the introduction of Server 2008 and later, a new command-line only version became available called "Server Core" with PowerShell. It minimized server memory waste, sped boot-ups, and allowed administrators (super power users) to better control the operating system programmatically rather than depending on mouse clicks. Linux is going the other way - starting out with the more advanced command-line interface, they're trying to build the ease of management tools for smaller office scenerios that WIndows has had for years. Effective with the release of Windows Server 8, Server Core mode of installation will now be the default option. The GUI is still available but just needs to be selected during install.

How does this apply to mobiles? If RIM can build the cutesy interfaces good enough to sell handsets long enough to stay in business, while the novelty of such interfaces to wear off, they may just re-capture a new breed of mobile users who have grown weary of Swype and endless Tonka inspired interfaces to re-kindle their desire to just get work done and enjoy the speed and accuracy of a physical keyboard.

I'm one of the folks who are using an Android phone because I simply could not live without certain apps that make my job entirely easier, and enjoy a few others that are a bonus on mobile. The e-mail and text messaging on my Android seems slower and clunkier than I enjoyed on my BlackBerry, but I can now successfully connect to a remote desktop session, or SSH server and type command lines to do my work rather than being forced to wait until I get back to a computer -- something I couldn't do on BlackBerry. If RIM can get more apps developers onboard to build out their library, I very well might return to planet BlackBerry. Assuming, of course, they haven't ruined the part of BlackBerry that was buttery smooth when I was there in the process...

--Kidd

[mick662]

This line of argument is not pointless. Just cause you choose to not like it or that you're annoyed/bored (what have you) of the topic doesn't mean it has no value.

Of course it's pointless. No one is going to argue for something they don't like. That's the whole thing about the HW vs. SW keyboard discussion you just don't get. Some prefer touchscreen, some physical. All anyone ever said was "Boy, we hope RIM doesn't get rid of physical keyboards altogether". Then you just keep coming back, insisting that touchscreen keyboards are better for everyone.

[adam1991]

10 years ago, Steve Jobs introduced the round mouse--and for over two years, refused to acknowledge that it was a very bad idea. He insisted that it was the greatest thing in the world.

Now here we are with people who, for their own twisted reasons, want to play that same game with respect to SW keyboards. Saying so doesn't make it so; it just makes you look ridiculous.

BTW, what oil should I use in my Model T? (10 points if you laughed out loud at that one...)

[Supa_Fly]

... but I can now successfully connect to a remote desktop session, or SSH server and type command lines to do my work rather than being forced to wait until I get back to a computer -- something I couldn't do on BlackBerry. If RIM can get more apps developers onboard to build out their library, I very well might return to planet BlackBerry. Assuming, of course, they haven't ruined the part of BlackBerry that was buttery smooth when I was there in the process...
--Kidd

Did you realize that SSH and type command lines have been available since the debut of BB OS 4 with Rove Mobile's (previously corp name) tools?
Odd how something designed for keyboard use with minimal GUI actually is served better for a mobile device by a full GUI using terminal services directly to the server.

[Supa_Fly]

OK ... I've given up the HW vs SW Keyboard debate indefinitely (I never said EVERYBODY should use SW Keyboard but the reason its gaining popularity is due to its infinitely extensive interface beyond just one language and its ability to serve users better; that's for the record). Done.


Back onto the preview:

Developers are finding that side loading or direct link to ".bar" files allows for installation of PlayBook applications directly onto the BB10 Dev Alpha unit.
Also their finding internal file access is also possible with the Browser - so the Torch team didn't entirely separate the browser from the file system (great news).
Battery life is lasting 4/5hrs for some thus far.
Storage is 14GB
CPU: TI OMAP 4460 running at 1.5Ghz ( :O ) with 1GB RAM, some SGX gpu - looking promising but with future expectations of Samsung S4 chips.

[AlexKidd1977]

Did you realize that SSH and type command lines have been available since the debut of BB OS 4 with Rove Mobile's (previously corp name) tools?
Odd how something designed for keyboard use with minimal GUI actually is served better for a mobile device by a full GUI using terminal services directly to the server.

I used various apps including Rove's from back in the day and the experience was less than satisfactory primarily due to lack of the touchscreen and being stuck on EDGE connectivity. Yes, there are 3G and touch Blackberrys available now that weren't years ago, but my application requirements have continued to grow since so the specific ones I mentioned are just an example. Once I can see market acceptance of BB 10 picking up then I will re-evaluate whether I can do without some of them in expectation of more to come. As far as I can see though, development for BB has stagnated which is not promising. Furthermore, I realize I am perpetuating the chicken and egg problem. It really is unfortunate because I'm sure many others are in my same situation. RIM really has to build a buzz and excitement with something unique to bring folks back. I have the feeling they were trying to do it with their BBM platform, but that's mostly technical in nature and consumers don't understand how it benefits them. What do I think they should do that they would understand? I don't know. Otherwise, I'd be doing it myself.

--Kidd

[mick662]

Developers are finding that side loading or direct link to ".bar" files allows for installation of PlayBook applications directly onto the BB10 Dev Alpha unit.

Would that be because it's actually loaded with PlayBook OS 2.0 rather than BB10?