Verizon is solid

[Jordan T]

Lol no that's why I said please don't turn it into that. I was accused of leaving out facts out of bias and said that only to say that despite the good reasons (in my beliefs - I believe all people should be treated equally and fairly as fellow humans) to be biased against Verizon, I'm honestly not lol. But no, please no debate. Many people see their support of human rights as a good reason to be biased against AT&T and Sprint. In fact, in my area I'd guess far more people oppose equal rights than support. For me, all these companies really ride the fence and support one thing at the end of the day - their bank accounts. There's no "moral" cell provider and thus no reason for me to be biased. Due to my beliefs and values, Verizon is morally the worst in my eyes. Oh well, if they had the best service, I'd use them unless the difference was very minimal. Instead, they're by far the worst in my area.

Instead of the pointless fanboyism on HF, why can't people talk tech. No company is a moral saint. None has the loyalty to you you pointlessly have to them. The extent of my loyalty to AT&T is that an alternative would have to be compelling enough to justify the termination fee. That's it. Oddly, the AT&T MVNOs tempt me. Long run, red pocket would totally justify my paying the etf now...

[clonehappy]

nerdydesi, you got that right on. The person above (Andy) who pointed out that Verizon has got better in my market lately and is building faster, has is so backwards. We have Verizon to thank for nothing (other than indirectly the fact they had to divest Alltel here, but I thank the DOJ, not Verizon, for that one...). Verizon started building faster because if they didn't people would've noticed and left to AT&T eventually. Maybe. Verizon has one damn strong reality distortion field here, and AT&T has a terrible reputation.

BTW, I don't hate Verizon. I pick the best carrier. If Verizon was a better option for me I'd go to them no problem. Heck, I've had Verizon before. BUT, if you ARE someone who is trying to pick a carrier on morals (I'm not, I wish in some ways I was better about that, but I'm not) here are some good reasons NOT to choose Verizon Wireless:

1. Human Rights Campaign scores. AT&T scores 100. Sprint scores 100. T-Mobile scores 55. Verizon scores 20. If you support equal rights, don't support Verizon.

2. On a similar note, sexism in advertising. Verizon's ads propagate and promote rigid gender roles and social norms (Droid Does, the whole manly phone thing, the girly Palm ads, tons of other more recent ads).

So no, I actually don't hate Verizon. But I probably SHOULD due to the company's very poor record on equality, both in their official policies and in their advertising. P.S. PLEASE don't turn this political, because everyone's morals are different. I know for some people, a poor score on human rights issues is a good thing. You have to shop on your morals if you're going to. For ME, personally, Verizon's a very distasteful company. But I'm not basing anything I say on HoFo on that. I base it entirely on network performance. If I lived in DC and commuted by metro at all often, I'd run into a Verizon store

Human rights campaign scores? Sexism in advertising?? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!

My God, man. All I care is if the data works, and the calls go through. Verizon is the only carrier that can reliably do that for me across the nation. Stop making B.S. excuses because you don't like Verizon. You're fishing now, you realize that right? The only people who pay attention to things like "rigid gender roles" and "equality in advertising" are people who are insecure about their gender to begin with.

So, in effect, you're telling me Verizon's marketing department isn't a bunch of namby-pamby limp-wristed liberal trash? AND my phone works everywhere? I knew there was a reason I don't mind writing that $100 check every month.

[whitetigergrowl]

Last Saturday I drove through North Dakota on my way to Mn. My God I have never dropped so many calls on a network in my life. This was on I94 across the state.

Yet Verizon doesn't show any dropped calls for that day but did notice some in April in SD where I live. 3 in one day.

In at least 80% of the dropped call cases on Sat., most were when I had 3-4 bars. When the call would drop I would look and that's what it would show.

So I call for Verizon for the umpteenth time about my phone and the service. And like the 100 times before they wanted to go through the check settings/master reset crap. I told them to notate my account I do not want to master reset my phone anymore. I shouldn't have to keep losing crap because of either phone or network issues.

I told her the last guy promised he would call back and if the problems weren't resolved, he would issue a warranty replacement. So guess what he never did....call back.

I told her this and she wanted to go through the steps again. Well yesterday my phone went into bootloop and I had to master reset everything anyways.

So ironically they show 3 dropped calls in SD on the same day in April...but none last Saturday even though calls dropped more than a handful of times and service appeared good. I went across about 90% of the state on the main highway.

I'm at my wits end with Verizon and feel like a dog chasing its tail with them. Any suggestions?

I've went into stores with zero luck and worthless help. Doing everything I've already done because of help CS on the phone.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using HowardForums

[vPhone]

That was me driving behind you with a femtocell.....

HAHA I knew it!

[vPhone]

I personally liked being on Verizon EVDO sucks for streaming but the latency is low and loads pages pretty quick. It beats my iPhone roaming on edge that wouldn't even load a map. Not sure how call quality is with Verizon because I'm using a data only device. But I dropped plenty of calls on AT&T. (loosing att native coverage and dropping to roaming) I'm more of a data user than voice so having consistant Verizon evdo I'll take it.

[Jordan T]

Human rights campaign scores? Sexism in advertising?? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!

My God, man. All I care is if the data works, and the calls go through. Verizon is the only carrier that can reliably do that for me across the nation. Stop making B.S. excuses because you don't like Verizon. You're fishing now, you realize that right? The only people who pay attention to things like "rigid gender roles" and "equality in advertising" are people who are insecure about their gender to begin with.

So, in effect, you're telling me Verizon's marketing department isn't a bunch of namby-pamby limp-wristed liberal trash? AND my phone works everywhere? I knew there was a reason I don't mind writing that $100 check every month.

Nope, I'm telling you that NOT ONLY is everything bad I've found with the Verizon network true, they're ALSO not "a bunch of namby-pamby limp-wristed liberal trash" (though honestly, I don't consider myself trash, that's your perspective and opinion, not mine. Personally, I don't like to think of people as trash no matter what they believe or who they are because we're all the precious wonderful children of the Creator).

But basically, yes *IF* you're shopping morals, and *IF* your morals are similar to mine, there's another good reason to avoid Verizon. If your morals are the opposite of mine, it could be a selling point for Verizon!

[Trocks797]

Mark, I see you had nothing to say in regards to my previous post. Anyway...

Antenna, anyone in their right mind WOULD rather have HSPA+ UMTS than RevA EVDO.

No. Not as deployed by AT&T. If their network was built properly, perhaps they wouldn't continually bleed more customers and sign less than Verizon (using their EVDO RevA that nobody in their right mind wants).

The difference is night and day. EVDO is usually useless for anything beyond basic use under even moderate load.

No. Have you been to NYC? Have you been to Los Angeles? Go to NYC and tell me EVDO is "useless for anything beyond basic use under even moderate load", especially compared to AT&T HSPA+. Last weekend was the Kentucky Derby. AT&T HSPA+ was, once again, dead. Verizon EVDO chugged along just fine.

But it's better than GSM/EDGE. That's the debate. Also EVDO rA and HSDPA Class 10 have similar spectral efficiency (class 10 is a tiny bit better) so even then it's not a tech issue totally.

Tell me, which class of HSDPA is AT&T running? It ain't 10.

Verizon can't get the >1.5mbps speeds or so but they COULD shoot for a nice usable 1-1.5mbps with their EVDO. But they don't. Instead 0.1-0.5 are the expectation.

No. Nobody expects Verizon to be at 500kbps. They were last tested by PCWorld to be pushing double that over EVDO on a nationwide scale. Today I was crusing at some great EVDO speeds while driving 80mph through Indiana:



AT&T has yet to launch HSPA+ in that area, btw.

There are three problems with your argument:

1. You're comparing generations of HSPA+ that haven't been deployed by AT&T to Verizon's Rev. A.
2. You're generalizing both networks based on your experience.
I am sorry Verizon can't hit 500kbps in your area. If I were there, I would be on AT&T in a heartbeat. The reality is you are on a brand newnetwork with far fewer users than Verizon, and probably have never experienced AT&T congestion. Now take cities like mine, where AT&T can't break 4mbps, and Verizon tosses out EVDO speed tests like these:




For you to say 500kbps is the expectation of Verizon EVDO proves my point. But in all my travels this past year, I have never once been unable to break 1.5mbps. I am not saying it is all roses for Verizon, as we all know it is not. But EVDO is far from unusable.

3. You're assuming AT&T has properly rolled out their network.
This shouldn't take too much persuasion. We all know how poorly AT&T fairs at any large event, (CES, The Inauguration, Kentucky Derby come to mind without finding the thread from awhile back), and how places like LA, San Fran, and NYC are still too congested. Their network is hit-or-miss, and that is the problem. Verizon may not be as fast, but it is far more consistent.

So my only two reasons for participating in this thread are as follows:

1. Verizon is and has been the only nationwide carrier to choose on their own will to deploy high-speed data in rural areas. Fact.
2. Verizon may not be as fast has AT&T in some areas, but AT&T's hit-or-miss HSPA+ combined with extensive EDGE allows Verizon to continuously sign (and keep) more contracted customers as they cover their network in LTE and push AT&T to try to compete. Fact.

in my beliefs - I believe all people should be treated equally and fairly as fellow humans

Agreed!

[RussPath03]

Here in Texas recently did a trip to West Texas. And my AT&T device always use to have signal. I had NO SIGNAL at all with Verizon, and when it said in Extended area, I couldn't make a call so that was useless. I had to use my friends AT&T phone to make a call. So if you go anywhere off the main interstates of Texas in the west part, you are SOL with Verizon. Makes me wonder why I left ATT. But I love no drop calls!

[johnhere]

AT&T is really solid in Texas.

[Airb330]

Come to the northeast. You will be HAPPY with 500kbps with Verizon.

My average is easily 200-400. Verizon acknowledges there are 0 problems with anything over 300. THey'll only investigate under 300. And unless you are in the line of sight to a tower, in downtown DC, downtown Philly, downtown Boston, or midtown Manhattan, you will not see over 1 mpps. You just will not. Driving along I-95 you might say? No, not even close. The only good EVDO speeds this coast sees is in major metro areas, never the highways or suburbs, let alone rural areas.

It blows my mind people are getting 1.5+ in the middle of nowhere TN. In the middle of nowhere MD, DE, PA, VA, NY, you'll be lucky to see 200, or the dreaded 1X. Luckily LTE is coming fast.

[newyork4me]

Come to the northeast. You will be HAPPY with 500kbps with Verizon.

My average is easily 200-400. Verizon acknowledges there are 0 problems with anything over 300. THey'll only investigate under 300. And unless you are in the line of sight to a tower, in downtown DC, downtown Philly, downtown Boston, or midtown Manhattan, you will not see over 1 mpps. You just will not. Driving along I-95 you might say? No, not even close. The only good EVDO speeds this coast sees is in major metro areas, never the highways or suburbs, let alone rural areas.

It blows my mind people are getting 1.5+ in the middle of nowhere TN. In the middle of nowhere MD, DE, PA, VA, NY, you'll be lucky to see 200, or the dreaded 1X. Luckily LTE is coming fast.

This is my life in Raleigh/Durham and the exurbs of St. Louis as well. LTE is 30+ mbps in RDU and 10-20 mbps in St. Louis though, so the light is there at the end of the tunnel.

[Jordan T]

AT&T has yet to launch HSPA+ in that area, btw.

There are three problems with your argument:

1. You're comparing generations of HSPA+ that haven't been deployed by AT&T to Verizon's Rev. A.
2. You're generalizing both networks based on your experience.

1. Nope, I actually was comparing Category 10 HSDPA to EVDO rA. Because that's what the iPhone 4S supports on both. AT&T is running Category 14 HSDPA which is about 50% more efficient in ideal radio conditions because it uses 64QAM modulation instead of 16QAM . I'm NOT using Category 14 because the iPhone doesn't support it, and I'd rather compare the technologies "in the real world"

Category 10 has a PHY layer speed of 13.6mbps (NOT 14.0 - which is bad binary math, and NOT 14.4 which is pulled out of some marketers backside and repeated a lot) and EVDO rA has a PHY layer speed of 3.0mbps (NOT 3.1, again - bad binary math). A UMTS channel with guard bands requires 5MHz. An EVDO channel with guard requires 1.25MHz. Therefore, four EVDO channels take the same space as one UMTS channel. 4 x 3 = 12mbps in the same space HSDPA Cat 10 manages 13.6mbps. Therefore, comparing iPhone to iPhone, the iPhone is about 13% more spectrally efficient on AT&T's network. Which is almost identical, in real life. Category 14 HSDPA devices are about 50% more efficient than Category 10.

Where the real amazing efficiencies will be seen is Category 20 and Category 28. Cat 20 is the dual spatial stream MIMO version of 14, basically. 28 is dual spatial stream, dual channel (needs 10MHz but is twice as fast). These categories are very, very similar to Release 8 LTE in terms of efficiency, actually. THAT is what's not deployed yet.

2. Nope, not generalizing at all. I think I try to point out in every post that every market is different and there's places I'd jump to Verizon in a heartbeat! (DC if I rode the metro...)

P.S. No, haven't been to N.Y. since I was a little kid. L.A. I had Alltel and was roaming on Verizon last time I was in LA. It was TERRIBLE. No signal many places I thought for sure it should work, and data so congested it was crawling in many parts of the city. Looking forward to seeing how AT&T does next time I'm there (probably this summer). BTW, that was last February...

[Wireless Junkie]

1. Nope, I actually was comparing Category 10 HSDPA to EVDO rA. Because that's what the iPhone 4S supports on both. AT&T is running Category 14 HSDPA which is about 50% more efficient in ideal radio conditions because it uses 64QAM modulation instead of 16QAM . I'm NOT using Category 14 because the iPhone doesn't support it, and I'd rather compare the technologies "in the real world"

Category 10 has a PHY layer speed of 13.6mbps (NOT 14.0 - which is bad binary math, and NOT 14.4 which is pulled out of some marketers backside and repeated a lot) and EVDO rA has a PHY layer speed of 3.0mbps (NOT 3.1, again - bad binary math). A UMTS channel with guard bands requires 5MHz. An EVDO channel with guard requires 1.25MHz. Therefore, four EVDO channels take the same space as one UMTS channel. 4 x 3 = 12mbps in the same space HSDPA Cat 10 manages 13.6mbps. Therefore, comparing iPhone to iPhone, the iPhone is about 13% more spectrally efficient on AT&T's network. Which is almost identical, in real life. Category 14 HSDPA devices are about 50% more efficient than Category 10.

Where the real amazing efficiencies will be seen is Category 20 and Category 28. Cat 20 is the dual spatial stream MIMO version of 14, basically. 28 is dual spatial stream, dual channel (needs 10MHz but is twice as fast). These categories are very, very similar to Release 8 LTE in terms of efficiency, actually. THAT is what's not deployed yet.

2. Nope, not generalizing at all. I think I try to point out in every post that every market is different and there's places I'd jump to Verizon in a heartbeat! (DC if I rode the metro...)

P.S. No, haven't been to N.Y. since I was a little kid. L.A. I had Alltel and was roaming on Verizon last time I was in LA. It was TERRIBLE. No signal many places I thought for sure it should work, and data so congested it was crawling in many parts of the city. Looking forward to seeing how AT&T does next time I'm there (probably this summer). BTW, that was last February...

I know you are very fond of HSPA+ for whatever reason even though it has no potential here.

But all those comparisons are highly theoretical...

AT&T's 14.4 handsets rarely hit anything consistently over 6mbit/s which for a network that is so *great*, is pretty pathetic. But thats besides the point and won't matter anyways end of this year/beginning of next year when Verizon has LTE where AT&T still has EDGE.

As far as Category 20 and 28, its not impressive since it will NEVER see the light of day here. We are done with HSPA+, time to move on to more advanced OFDM tech's, AT&T see's HSPA+ as dead as far as their network is concerned and have no plans of moving past 14.4/21.1

[Wireless Junkie]

This is my life in Raleigh/Durham and the exurbs of St. Louis as well. LTE is 30+ mbps in RDU and 10-20 mbps in St. Louis though, so the light is there at the end of the tunnel.

Get a 4G phone, thats what they are there for . If you use a 3G phone where Verizon has purposely put 4G then don't expect any miracles.

[nerdydesi]

AT&T is really solid in Texas.

I've heard the same as well. Considering ATT's corporate headquarters are in Dallas, I'm not surprised at all. I'd expect it in fact.