Lack Of Cellphone Service Blamed In NYC Couple's Catskills Death

[efparri]

What difference does it make about emotions? That does not change events. Do you moan after you read every obituary in the newspaper? I could not detect you beating your breast or tearing your clothes in your messages.

[veriztd]

Folks, there is no question that this was a tragedy but let's stop playing the blame game. There is a reason why these tragedies are called "accidents".

I don't believe that either the victims or the cellular provider had malicious intent leading to the tragedy. I am certain there will be a lawsuit against At&t but not likely anyone on Hofo who has commented on this sad case will be on that jury.

I am surprised nobody has yet suggested that the automobile manufacturer is partially to blame.

Let's move on and let this case go through the normal channels. Bottom line is that there are no easy solutions to prevent such tragedies in all locations nationwide.

[TC_Mits]

.
You're giving yourself away with all this twisting of the facts. I could go on, but there's no real point in continuing -- your lack of objectivity is patent. ...

True, human feeling doesn't change the past. But, it is the biggest factor for making corrective changes and preventing future mistakes. Is that the reason you want emotion stricken from this discussion? -->

...
Let's move on and let this case go through the normal channels. Bottom line is that there are no easy solutions to prevent such tragedies in all locations nationwide.

And why this preoccupation with blame? It should be about how to prevent recurrences, not blame.

[johnhere]

I blame it on space time continuum

[TC_Mits]

I blame it on space time continuum

OK, NP. But how do we fix it?
How do we prevent others from dying similarly?

Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]

[efparri]

Based upon what happened, there is no way that an emergency team could have arrived in time to save the husband. One could be on the Interstate using an old phone without GPS capability and rescue personnel would not be able to arrive in time. Many people driving down the highway have no idea where they are. They do not notice mile markers and cannot direct 911 service to the correct exit to arrive at the accident site in time. The car the couple was driving, a Ford Fusion, has 911 Assistance built in and will continue to attempt to call out to 911 if the telephone is paired to the SYNC Service installed in the car.

[fraydog]

I'd rather see something to where we have better device interoperability and better infrastructure sharing so that rural service is better universally. If we don't want to see another tragedy like what happened with the Morrises maybe we should be focused on what AT&T, Verizon, and other carriers can do system wide to make wireless service more reliable and interoperable. LTE should be an opportunity to end the device divide, not a continuation of the entrenched order.

[efparri]

Since frequency assignments are controlled by the Federal government, there is little carriers can do unlilaterally to insure interoperability. No carrier was listed as serving Andes, NY.

I suspect that the family chose AT&T for the Morrises because of their parents' international travels and not for the coverage at the house in the Catskills.

[fraydog]

Since frequency assignments are controlled by the Federal government, there is little carriers can do unlilaterally to insure interoperability. No carrier was listed as serving Andes, NY.

I suspect that the family chose AT&T for the Morrises because of their parents' international travels and not for the coverage at the house in the Catskills.

Even with the industry coalescing behind LTE as the common standard? That's not even talking about the need to share backend infrastructure.

[efparri]

The air interface has to be interoperable. If you cannot connect to the other carrier's wireless network, what happens upstream is irrelevant. My LTE is not your LTE. Look at the furor when Apple released the new iPad which operated on LTE in the United States and Canada. European countries and Australia raise a stink because the phone did not work on their LTE networks. Even their own carriers do not have interoperablity.

[TC_Mits]

Based upon what happened, there is no way that an emergency team could have arrived in time to save the husband...

1) Had the cellphone worked in the first instance there would have been no necessity for him to get out of the car at all. A working phone could have saved him *before* he fell.


2) Stop focussing so narrowly on what you perceive as impossible and let's look at what is -- or might be -- possible, with an eye to the future more than the past.


Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]

[TC_Mits]

If interoperability is too complicated to be practical, maybe a whole new approach:

Yes, there will always be practical limits, but there are also practical things that can be done. Even here, it's a trade-off measured in dollars and cents. Airline safety is a parallel example.

I'm thinking a simple chip or circuit in every handset -- maybe integrate it into the PLAN chip -- that recognizes a failed 911 call and blasts a single higher wattage burst with pinpoint GPS data and the phone number, for ID, to a special highly sensitive receiver circuit installed in every tower that then relays the data to 911. A single dedicated and standardized frequency -- isn't there some public spectrum in the high 600s that's not currently used? KISS is the key.

It's not unique really. Payphones must take 911 calls even when broken or out of service.

Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]

[i0wnj00]

Even with the industry coalescing behind LTE as the common standard? That's not even talking about the need to share backend infrastructure.

It's only an common air interface.
LTE in Europe will be the same as it is in the USA.
The difference being the frequencies used and "band" classes (if any)..the issues the engineers and talking heads are suppose to figure out.

WCDMA/CDMA/GSM/AMPS/TDMA..are all common standards, just different implementations according to frequency allocations.

A single dedicated and standardized frequency -- isn't there some public spectrum in the high 600s that's not currently used? KISS is the key.

Even if that band were available, I doubt the wireless carriers would touch it.
Just look at the 700 MHz D Block reserved for first responders. It's still rotting in the hands of the FCC because nobody wants to build a network for exclusive use by a limited user base. In other words if there is no money to be made from it then they won't bother with it.

[i0wnj00]

Based upon what happened, there is no way that an emergency team could have arrived in time to save the husband. One could be on the Interstate using an old phone without GPS capability and rescue personnel would not be able to arrive in time. Many people driving down the highway have no idea where they are. They do not notice mile markers and cannot direct 911 service to the correct exit to arrive at the accident site in time. The car the couple was driving, a Ford Fusion, has 911 Assistance built in and will continue to attempt to call out to 911 if the telephone is paired to the SYNC Service installed in the car.

Additional issues..
1.) Then there's the 911 call which reaches the "wrong" PSAP.
Then the dispatcher of the PSAP must find the location information from the wireless carrier, who then finds out the location is coming from the different location. Now then must call the appropriate office or PSAP to get assistance for the caller.

2.) How about the 911 call where two jurisdictions/PSAP quibbling about who's responsible for responding for help at an address?

Anything bolded is true, not to mention the disorientation/shock of slamming a car into something.

[TC_Mits]

You guys are way overcomplicating this thing. We don't have to solve all the technical issues of interoperability in this thread. Looks to me like y'all are moving towards figuring out that approach won't work, anyway.

Simple reliable way to get a 911 call out in poor coverage. Two-way communication not absolutely required. Like a busted pay phone, same idea.

We're just trying to save some lives here, not re-engineer America's cellular infrastructure.


Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]