The long life of Windows Phone 7.8?????

**Big Ang** · 06-21-2012, 03:52 PM

So, we now know that Windows Phone 8 requires high-end hardware due to all the improvements, yada yada yada.

But a short time ago it was reported that Nokia wants to go full throttle with WinPhone in their low-end / emerging market (ie Lumia 610 and an even lower-end model). Of course they will continue with their high-end ones as well, with the new high-end ones running WinPhone 8.

It seems to me that if Nokia will continue pushing out additional low-end devices, those devices will have to use Win Phone 7.8. And anyone else wanting to make low-end Windows phones will do the same.

Plus, any developer making a WinPhone app can choose to make it "7-compatible" so that it can be used by the entire WinPhone community, as Win Phone 8 users can use apps that are compatible with 7.

My guess (hope???) is that apps available for Win Phone 7 devices will continue to grow and grow, with only apps that require the advanced features of 8 will be 8-only.

Thoughts? Anyone think I'm way off, or have an alternate predictions for the near future?

**migo** · 06-21-2012, 05:08 PM

Not necessarily. The major hurdle with bringing WP8 to current WP devices is that the drivers all have to be re-written to suit the new Kernel, which would probably take roughly as long as making a new phone from scratch. It's feasible for Nokia to have been working on that, but it would have also taken time away from bringing new phones to market. Then, even if that were done, it likely wouldn't be a simple upgrade process through Zune, it'd probably have to involve reflashing the phone with a risk of bricking.

The fact is it simply requires more manpower and resources that the OEMs would rather spend elsewhere.

That said, I think the Lumia 610 probably actually is too weak to run WP8 (while the Lumia 710, 800 and 900 actually aren't), so yes you're right, we'll probably see some more WP7.8 devices being sold in the sub-$150 price range, but I don't think it'll be quite as significant or widespread as you're suggesting.

**ROKstrr** · 06-22-2012, 08:45 AM

Do you remember when U first gazed upon your current phone, w the latest & greatest. In emerging markets, there is no point of comparison, thus a generation old is new. The simplicity of WP7.8 will win converts there (vs Android) & on price (vs iPhone).
There is definitely damage control to be done, but WP8 will get the appropriate marketing (I hope) and allow Nokia (& WP8 OS) to compete with iOS & Android in the long run.
As I've stated earlier, you will know by Christmas 2012 ! There will be a turn (1 way or the other). The R&D / hardware design could possibly sink Nokia w WP8 or a LUMIA WP8 could take off.
Personally, I would love to see a dual (or quad) core, Nokia PureView camera toting, microSD card slot supporting, 1gb RAM onboard, 16gb file storage (memory? not so much), NFC supporting LUMIA 950 WP8 (same design as Lumia 900) in similar pebble blue to the SGS III ! (or a rich burgundy RED)

**rambo47** · 06-22-2012, 04:58 PM

73 days. That's how long it took for Lumia 900 owners to find out they were being shunted onto a side track, relegated to patches and bug fixes. The new WP8 is not for them. What they will get is a "skin" that makes their 7.8 handset "appear" to be running WP8. That's just SAD.

**Steveanderson13** · 06-22-2012, 05:41 PM

Sounds kinda like fragmentation, no?

windows phone user:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4k1rvdqJH1r2n49g.gif

**Steveanderson13** · 06-22-2012, 05:43 PM

Is any present phone unaffected, titan, etc?

**migo** · 06-22-2012, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Steveanderson13

Sounds kinda like fragmentation, no?

windows phone user:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4k1rvdqJH1r2n49g.gif

Unless 7.8 brings some new APIs for apps to take advantage of, it's not really fragmentation, it's merely an older version of the software. Android fragmentation is also overstated though, and is only really true now with devices like the Kindle Fire and Nook Tablet/Color.

**migo** · 06-22-2012, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by rambo47

73 days. That's how long it took for Lumia 900 owners to find out they were being shunted onto a side track, relegated to patches and bug fixes. The new WP8 is not for them. What they will get is a "skin" that makes their 7.8 handset "appear" to be running WP8. That's just SAD.

I can't help but notice that you yourself are not a Lumia 900 users.

**Steveanderson13** · 06-22-2012, 06:22 PM

Me neither. But I think think this is a big blunder. Perhaps they will give a new Zenith phone as credit.

**Conan Edogawa** · 06-22-2012, 09:57 PM

Digitime is saying the thing about Microsoft keeping 7.8 for awhile for the low to mid end market.

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20120...12.html?ystfuv

Not sure if this will last very long or even if the idea will work at all. WP8 will be much better than WP7, so I am thinking that people who buy low cost phones might just wait until the 1st generation WP8 phones are replaced rather than buying a new WP7 device. That thinking brings up a debate on whether it is a good idea to bring out very low-end phones or just rebrand your old top-of-the-line stuff for the emerging markets. It is going to be tough to sell phones with lower specifications than a Lumia 610 with a mobile OS that has at best a limited future.

**migo** · 06-23-2012, 12:11 AM

There's nothing wrong with a current WP7.5 device, while there is something wrong with a single core ICS phone or any Android running GB or lower.

Using WP7.8 for the low end (particularly in the 800MHz/256MB category) is a really good way of keeping WP8 brought down by the lowest common denominator. Want a smartphone for $150? WP7.8 sounds awesome for that, and the initial spec requirement is high enough that by any standard it's at the very least adequate. Want a dual core phone with a much wider range of capabilities? Expect to pay $300. Nokia might be able to pull off $250.

Once you can get a good Android phone at the $150 range (that's a dual core system), WP7.8 will still be viable in the sub-$100 range. At that point you might not see too many WP7.8 phones getting produced, but that's probably the 18 months of support MS was talking about.

**Caturday** · 06-23-2012, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by rambo47

73 days. That's how long it took for Lumia 900 owners to find out they were being shunted onto a side track, relegated to patches and bug fixes. The new WP8 is not for them. What they will get is a "skin" that makes their 7.8 handset "appear" to be running WP8. That's just SAD.

What's sad is that MS restricted all development to a single outdated SOC from two years ago and didn't allow hardware to grow with time. Hardware always grows with time, especially phones, which are outdated less than a year from release. Potential Lumia 900 owners could have done their research and seen that they were buying a phone in 2012 with a single core CPU, 480x800 screen, and 512 MB of RAM. Great specs for 2010, not so great for 2012. Now maybe Windows Phone is more efficient than Android and so doesn't need stellar hardware to do well, but then you shouldn't expect new, more demanding software to run well either.

Originally Posted by Steveanderson13

Is any present phone unaffected, titan, etc?

Nope, every single current WP7.5 phone will be limited to version 7.8. None will get an upgrade to WP8.

That said, not all current Windows phones will be rendered obsolete quite yet. Their days are numbered, but since WP8 can run WP7 apps, and since there are a lot of existing WP7 users out there already, I'm guessing a lot of developers will keep making their apps compatible with both. Eventually they'll transition to WP8 exclusively, but by the time it becomes difficult to find WP7 apps, most people will have switched anyway.

**ALSHugh** · 06-23-2012, 08:57 AM

As with most things Microsoft, they seem to oscillate between one good and one bad release. Good usually equating to a complete product and bad normally being half-baked. Windows Phone is currently still a half-baked product not capable of competing with Android and iOS simply because it is just missing too many essentials.

I think WP7 can still enjoy a long life as a low end platform, but MS needs to fill in some of the holes, most of which are not the result of technical limitation. MS also needs to fill in the app gap, even if that means funding development.

**rambo47** · 06-23-2012, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by migo

I can't help but notice that you yourself are not a Lumia 900 users.

Nope. I'm a former Nokia fanboy, Symbian Ambassador, and I'd love to use a Nokia phone again. Problem is I'm a Mac user too. I'm using an iPhone now but I'm not in love with it. What I do like is how well it integrates with the Mac ecosystem and how easy iCloud makes everything mesh. Keeping a MacBook Air, an iMac, and my iPhone all synced up wirelessly is a snap.

I absolutely covet the Lumia 900 design, and I was very close to buying one and looking for workarounds to get it to sync with my Mac(s). Then I found out how WP8 is not coming to the 900 I was very disappointed. Maybe another WP8 device will offer Mac support so I'll keep waiting and keep looking.

**migo** · 06-23-2012, 12:55 PM

You can always install Windows 8 on your MBA and iMac.

All the Syncing I do is through Windows Live, Postbox handles Hotmail just fine, I don't know about iCal, I never use calendar programs anyway.