AT&T Tower Upgrades

**centro7710** · 06-28-2012, 12:40 PM

I have AT&T 4G HSPA+ service in a small town and noticed they are currently working on a tower about a mile away. While it's not currently affecting my signal, service, or data speeds, I wonder what kind of upgrade they are doing to it. I know they are rolling out LTE and wonder if that is what they are doing or if they could possibly be just upgrading it to HSPA+. I receive a signal from different towers than that one, but I can only think that if they are going to update a tower, especially with hardware, that they would only be converting it to LTE now.

For the past few days they have had 2 cables running from the top of the tower's antennas down to a trailer. Also, I noticed multiple cardboard boxes and also new antennas laying on the ground that have yet to be put up. Could they possibly just be adding extra capacity for the area?

Just wondering if anyone has any insight as to what their current strategy is, if they are updating towers to only LTE or if they are continuing to add HSPA+ towers to areas that currently already receive more than enough "4G" coverage. I think it would be weird that they would be adding it right outside a major city vs updating a tower within the city that currently does not receive AT&T LTE coverage.

I believe this specific tower is owned by "New Cingular" as it is listed on the atttowers.com website. The other towers I access (most being "4G") are outsourced to 'FiberTower' and 'Metropolitan Area Networks'.

**Morphling27** · 06-29-2012, 11:38 AM

It could be normal repair too - maybe enough stuff broke and it needs repair? If you see that much stuff around it, see if you can ask the crew working on it if they know.

**matt110** · 07-01-2012, 11:39 AM

Are the new panels longer and larger?

**zephxiii** · 07-01-2012, 06:06 PM

Is att the only service provider on it? Do ya have a location for that tower so we can see the type of area and existing service? Does that site have existing HSPA service?

Depending on the area it *could* be getting LTE, or more HSPA capacity etc.

Or it could be vzw adding service...who knows....but watch it closely to learn more.

If ya give me a zip I can see if anything shows up in mark the spot.

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**centro7710** · 07-02-2012, 12:27 PM

Update: the trailer is no longer on the site, however, there are two big wires that are not tied down that extend up to the antennas. I really can't tell the size difference with the antennas on the ground vs the ones on the tower. They do look wide and possibly a little longer on the ground. Also, AT&T is the only service on that tower. There is only one antenna section, and it is registered to AT&T. I would link to the antenna search website, but I am too new of a member to post links. The tower address is: 3090 Moline-Martin Road, Millbury, OH 43447. Registration #1212263 The coordinates are: Latitude: 41.5591 Longitude: -83.4555

This particular tower is also listed on the atttowers.com website.

I understand it could be just regular maintenance or upgrades to HSPA+, however with LTE on the way I wasn't sure if anyone had any information what their tower update plan was. It is doubtful that it would be LTE being its in a rural area outside of a major city, but one can only hope.

Thanks for the replies!

**zephxiii** · 07-02-2012, 02:43 PM

lol WOW I've eyeballed that exact tower many times since my friend lives right down the road from it and is what I am running off when I am visiting.

This is a PCS only market (they have a 15x15 block). In fact the initial/first UMTS/HSPA carrier launched in a slice of spectrum owned by someone else (Cleveland Unlimited License Sub, LLC) and what was interesting was that the native Alpha Tag back then reflected this. Eventually they launched a second carrier in probably their own block of PCS.

Here in Allen County Indiana we initially only had a 15x15 block as well. However since they launched HSPA at a much later date when there were more 3G devices in the sub base they were able to launch 1 HSPA carrier in that 15x15 block without any problems.

I've generally gotten pretty good speeds in and around Toledo and with where this site is I doubt they are needing a 3rd HSPA carrier.

SO this very well could be LTE being installed. If u can look at the new antennas to see how large they are in height in comparison to the original antennas, or maybe take a pic and post it here. Toledo was an early 3G market for Cingular/ATT so I wouldn't be surprised that LTE is showing up, and this tower would be included in the metro area launch.

Also, AT&T has 12x12 of 700mhz there so LTE should be rocking when it launches and u should see some larger panels.

**centro7710** · 07-03-2012, 07:12 AM

Haha small world?

Yes, I would assume you would have good speeds here, being that no one is on their network. Pretty much everyone has Verizon out here due to their rural coverage. (I just switched from slow Sprint after 6 years.) So far I've seen the coverage to be very good in the area, with the exception of the EDGE data pockets. Those EDGE dial-up speeds at 30-100k get annoying coming from 5-8meg everywhere else.

I drove by yesterday evening and noticed the trailer was back and the new antennas were installed. I turned around and snapped a pic. They are bigger, but are they LTE?

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**Trocks797** · 07-03-2012, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by centro7710

Haha small world?

Yes, I would assume you would have good speeds here, being that no one is on their network. Pretty much everyone has Verizon out here due to their rural coverage. (I just switched from slow Sprint after 6 years.) So far I've seen the coverage to be very good in the area, with the exception of the EDGE data pockets. Those EDGE dial-up speeds at 30-100k get annoying coming from 5-8meg everywhere else.

I drove by yesterday evening and noticed the trailer was back and the new antennas were installed. I turned around and snapped a pic. They are bigger, but are they LTE?

Can't say for sure, but I have never seen two LTE panels on one sector before from any carrier. Both AT&T and Verizon have 10x10 networks here. In addition, most LTE panels I have seen are taller than what we see in your picture.

Here is a tower in metro Louisville:

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So you see one LTE panel per sector for both companies running (or will be running in AT&T's case) their 10x10 network. That is what is making me think your tower is getting panels replaced with newer panels. I hope I am wrong, but on every tower I have seen in tons of cities, the LTE panels are painfully obvious.

**zephxiii** · 07-03-2012, 08:13 AM

You've never seen two LTE panels on a sector before? Geeze even i have

From anandtech:

"Verizon 4G LTE eNodeB—the LTE antennas are the bigger ones on the outside"

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4289/v...vely-reviewed/

**centro7710** · 07-03-2012, 08:16 AM

I figured, but wasn't sure if they would update to anything but LTE being that is the future. I thought the antennas were a little short as well, but definitely the width. AT&T already has excellent HSPA+ coverage in that whole area. Oh well, one could only hope. Thanks!

**Trocks797** · 07-03-2012, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by zephxiii

You've never seen two LTE panels on a sector before? Geeze even i have

From anandtech:
"Verizon 4G LTE eNodeB—the LTE antennas are the bigger ones on the outside"

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4289/v...vely-reviewed/

Good catch, and I do actually remember seeing that now. My mistake. IIRC, that is an EVDO/LTE-only site. (Guess I could check the source!)

Well then my only other question is why would AT&T/Verizon have dual LTE panels per sector in what sounds like a small town, compared to one panel in places like Cincinnati, Columbus, Indianapolis, Huston, etc.? Data demands and RF diversity needs would be greater in these places.

One thing I forgot to add in my previous post: It looks like there are three separate sets of panels in the photo in question: the small boxes (as seen in my pic), the short panels on the end, and the fat two in the center. If all these remain on the tower after the work is done, it could very well be LTE. If They remove any set panels that have been there for awhile, my guess is they are replacing that equipment. While antennas are not completely frequency-specific, AT&T and Verizon have habits!

**zephxiii** · 07-03-2012, 12:58 PM

I had been thinking the dual antennas per sector had to do with MIMO vs. SISO because i think both were being selective on where exactly they were deploying MIMO to cut down on costs.

**Nucleartx** · 07-03-2012, 08:22 PM

Hspa and gsm panels it looks like. Lte panels look a bit different, at least the ones I've seen on att.

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**matt110** · 07-03-2012, 10:31 PM

Interesting thread. To the OP: those aren't LTE panels.

I'm going to take shots of the site AT&T just panels on as well as Verizon's.

Off topic: anyway to see LTE testing via field test mode like you can for umts?

I have an LTE ipad

**formercanuck** · 07-04-2012, 06:04 PM

Just to add some info to this thread - Trocks - that 'HSPA+ 1900' piece that you're pointing to is actually HSPA+ 850/1900 gear, but not actual panels. Since AT&T doesn't have any LTE half of Los Angeles - I haven't seen any different panels - yet.
They're basically on all HPSA+ gear - http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...y-closeup3.JPG