RIM says BB10 delayed again, won't be available until Q1 2013

[howard]

Today RIM reported earnings but they also mentioned they won't have any BB10 devices to sell until Q1 2013.

As much as I'd like to see BB10 be a strong alternative, I can't imagine how BB10 would be successful now that it's been pushed back again. Heck, I thought it was going to have a hard time if they had launched it like they said they would last year.

They did mention that there would be BB10 devices with a physical keyboard.

Do you think we'll even see BB10?

[saccur]

That's quite the setback for RIM, unless they have something up their sleeve, which is rather doubtful considering their track record of late/missed release dates and underwhelming marketing. Having said that, BB10 is completely new built from the ground up all the while retaining aspects that made Blackberrys unique, so it's entirely possible/plausible that RIM is taking a more guarded approach not to release a half-baked OS (something that could ostensibly sink the company considering their present predicament).

Their announcement today just doesn't bode well though. Missing the pre-Christmas period is a faux-pas in today's highly commercialized world and unfortunately investors/pundits put more stock into that than the quality of a product these days, which in turn influences consumer buying habits, desires, etc.

[Tendenzi]

RIM only confirmed today what many were trying to ignore over the last couple of years. They are full of it.

They haven't ever been "in touch" with their customer, it was lucky they even experienced an up-swing in sales post 2007. Their fan base was driving sales, and like iDEN networks PTT, BBM was a novelty that quickly wore thin. They have missed so many golden opportunities, the likes of which Palm, Nokia even Motorola would have loved to capitalize on.

It's bad, because after yet again, getting the BB fans riled up and cheering for BB10, claiming time lines they yet again, are going to fail to deliver on. It's not good.

Had they ever thought to deliver the BIS/BES service as a licensed platform much like MS does with exchange, and maybe perhaps even focused their strengths across all platforms with BBM too, we'd have seen one of the most powerful and stable solutions for time to come. The problem however seems to be these services weren't compatible with QNX let alone, being able to adapt to other OS'.

MS is going to swoop up here where RIM failed. It's going to give them a jump-start on WP8. I am upset and disappointed that the decisions they made from 2007 - 2009 were so horribly misguided and wrong that tech bloggers around the web started sounding like highly-informed industry analysts, because it was so obvious where they were lacking.

Good night RIM, here's hoping a productive and ambitious company acquires you to use your patents for greater good rather than trolling.

[briancanada3]

I was told by someone I know a few weeks ago that the prototype devices out there are a half baked version of the new OS and apparently they have had a ton of issues getting the software to work fully with things like BBM and other RIM software. My friend who works in a programming role at RIM and will more then likely be laid off said that the software is so far behind, the goal was to have the software in a full running mode on the prototypes but lots of the features that RIM wants on the phones are not included in the software yet. My friend said the goal at one point was to have the full OS running on prototypes for employees by end of Q4 2011 and then they would work the bugs out by the time the developer prototypes were released then the phones were due to be shipped no later then october with a fully functioning OS that they were confident would be 100 percent bug free by then. Right now my friend has stated that he believes that the software is a year behind initial targets. I expect to see the phones delayed again and to be honest my friend believes the company will be split up or sold before the software is done being programmed completely.

Sad news from RIM but sadly I am not surprised. They had a chance to make a real impact at one point but they failed. Now Windows phone 8 will be released and the new Android OS will be out and we all know the new Iphone will be available before Christmas. RIM could have capatalized on a good fall and christmas season but now they will be further behind and it will take lots to make them a profitable company again.

[Rogido]

I think the Fat Lady is clearing her throat.

Part of RIM's problem was (is) letting the carriers charge the ridiculous, predatory prices for BBM, email and BB data plans. Why should anyone have to pay a premium to use a BB, over an Android, or a WP7?

[Kies]

Those were imposed thru the carriers by RIM, not the carriers themselves.

[Rogido]

Those were imposed thru the carriers by RIM, not the carriers themselves.

Then they really have dug their own grave.

[Supa_Fly]

That's quite the setback for RIM, unless they have something up their sleeve, which is rather doubtful considering their track record of late/missed release dates and underwhelming marketing. Having said that, BB10 is completely new built from the ground up all the while retaining aspects that made Blackberrys unique, so it's entirely possible/plausible that RIM is taking a more guarded approach not to release a half-baked OS (something that could ostensibly sink the company considering their present predicament).

Their announcement today just doesn't bode well though. Missing the pre-Christmas period is a faux-pas in today's highly commercialized world and unfortunately investors/pundits put more stock into that than the quality of a product these days, which in turn influences consumer buying habits, desires, etc.

This has nothing to do with being careful with their OS ... this has to do with someone in charge of SupplyChain NOT doing their job or having the rug pulled out from under them, ahem, Celestica - moving away from producing RIM products in roughly 1 full quarter (July, August, September, heck give them October & November)! No major manufacturer to pick up the HUGE slack!

Many months ago I stated RIM should:
Split their corporate & personal business' - even to the point of "BlackBerry" brand for corporate (BES included), and new brand for consumer lineup - start fresh!
Off-load/Out-source manufacturing entirely ... having a specific team on-site to securely load their OS platform on finished production line hardware

(I stated this on these boards LONG before APril this year when others, like minded analysts (with half a brain) squawked the same sentiments. I even specifically stated that LG was desperately looking for a hardware manufacturer.
EDIT: Quote located here: http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...3#post14712273

To be quite honest I don't think RIM should consider being a hardware manufacturer any longer. They should outsource ALL manufacturing out of the company ... let LG, Samsung, or HTC do the manufacturing - ALL have the facilities for massive volume and long proven quality in doing so, along with being OEMs in the past or currently. This way quality control in partnership can be checked at the warehouses, and then load RIM's OS and do checks on site and THEN ship directly. The economies of scale, low taxes and assembly costs, more than make this the IDEAL solution.

RIM done nothing, soon to be remembered as being nothing, and soon with this kind of path (missed targets after promises, strategic partners leaving, and continued layoff sprees) to be remembered as nothing GOOD!

@ Tendenzi,

Bravo ... well said, well-said!!!

[Audi Fan]

I'm still on an older BlackBerry and I was waiting for BlackBerry 10 as my contract has just ended. Now having heard that BlackBerry 10 is being delayed to Q1 2013, I would lie if I say that I would not consider another platform. I think what RIM needs to do is to explain to their customers why BlackBerry 10 is being delayed. I'm talking about specifics. Simply saying that releasing a phone that's not market-ready is not a good excuse, in my opinion. I would like to know what the particular problems are that are contributing to the delay. This would lead me to hold on to my current phone instead of switching over.

[ansky]

One of the posts above mentions that BBM integration is partly to blame for the delays. They really need to let BBM go away. BBM is completely pointless as it only works if the person you're chatting with also has a Blackberry. There are far too many other chat programs out there that work across all platforms. I have a total of 2 contacts left in my BBM list.

[ansky]

Why should anyone have to pay a premium to use a BB, over an Android, or a WP7?

I completely agree. With the limited number of apps available compared to other phones, I plan on dropping my blackberry in December when my contract is up. I'm paying the same monthly fee as people with Droids and Iphones and they get far more versatility.

[Audi Fan]

Ansky:

1) BBM itself is a reason for many people to choose BlackBerry in the first place. Cross-platform instant messaging programs like WhatsApp and Kik do not rival the BBM experience in my opinion. BBM is only going to get better with more features loaded into it and I am sure that would be the case in BlackBerry 10. As you mentioned yourself, that was one factor responsible for the delay of the new phones.

2) I live in Canada so the price of phones are subsidized by the carriers through contracts. As far as I know, the monthly rate plans are not influenced by the brand of phones. (Maybe this is true in other countries?) I know major cell phone companies like Telus and Rogers require a monthly plan of a minimum of $50 for newer phones on a three year contract, but that's not brand-specific as I am aware...so could you please explain your most recent post about this?

[ansky]

Audi: I think you missed my point. My point was that RIM is wasting way too much time and effort trying to get BBM to work on the new OS and that is what is causing delays. They need to focus elsewhere. How is BBM useful if everyone else you know is using a non-blackberry phone? BBM simply isn't a major selling point to most consumers - if it was, everyone would be dumping their Iphones and Androids to get a BB so they could use BBM. But that simply isn't happening. Like I said, I have 2 contacts left in my BBM list - everyone else dumped blackberry a long time ago, so apparently they didn't think BBM was so great, right? So now I'm sitting here with BBM (which may work fine), but the problem is, there is nobody left to talk to...

[ansky]

2) I live in Canada so the price of phones are subsidized by the carriers through contracts. As far as I know, the monthly rate plans are not influenced by the brand of phones. (Maybe this is true in other countries?) I know major cell phone companies like Telus and Rogers require a monthly plan of a minimum of $50 for newer phones on a three year contract, but that's not brand-specific as I am aware...so could you please explain your most recent post about this?

Again, you missed my point. I'm not talking about the cost of the device itself. I'm talking about the cost of the data plan required to use the device. I have Verizon, and it costs a minimum of $30/month for a data plan no matter what type of phone you are using. So why should I pay $30/month on data for a Blackberry that has limited functionality when I can pay the same monthly fee for an Android?

[Audi Fan]

Ansky:

Oh, I get your points now. Haha. I guess it's a bit too early for me right now and my cup of Tim Hortons coffee isn't really doing the job. I'm not sure if RIM should release BlackBerry 10 without BBM though. That's a core application within their ecosystem. I'm sure if they were to make the decision to release BlackBerry 10 without BBM, a ton of people were be up and about to criticize RIM for that decision. I guess they saw delaying BlackBerry 10 as the lesser of two evils. I used to have a lot of contacts on my BBM list as well and more than half have left and the number is getting smaller and smaller, so I agree with you on that point.

Your other point (now that I understand it) is valid. I think RIM (if they have not yet done so) should work with carriers to offer different rate plans for BlackBerry users. Since BlackBerries have data reduction technology in their phones, it may be a good idea to offer BlackBerry-exclusive data plans that offer less data at a lower price or even the same amount of data for a lower price. I have never gone through my 500 MB data plan and I tried. I can see streaming videos and Sirius radio, etc. on the phone would bring up the data usage, but for most people, I think browsing the internet is more common.