can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?

[Antenna]

Exactly! It would be worse than the $2 bill payment fee.

Didn't stop verizon from dropping unlimited w/ upgrades despite loud complaining. Verizon admitted that no one complained about the upgrade charge , so they decided they could get away with this.

Sent from my DROID RAZR

[Steveanderson13]

I have and I understand what you are saying. However, I believe both veriztd and butthead007 are former or current Verizon employees (could be wrong about this) and they both are saying the data "feature" is not part of the contract. If so, I would like their opinion on what the consequences would be if Verizon changed/removed the unlimited data feature mid-contract. I'm sure you are correct that there would be "repercussions" but I would still like to hear their opinion.

I think what it boils down to is this:

If you are in contract, you only need to finish the term, with as minimum features and cost as you want; else pay an etf. If you want a smartphone, pay a data feature while its active.

[newyork4me]

Ok new york, so thanks. So realistically (or theoretically) it could be advantageous to be in contract? ie while not in contract they could raise price, throttle, adverse affect or whatever.

I realize it would make make no sense to for them to do anything and it would be impractical for them to selectively change non-contract accts.

It can't hurt to be in contract, but it also doesn't offer too much protection anymore either. If they decide to change any terms in the middle of your contract, the worst that happens to them is that they have to let you cancel without ETF...which is the what you could do if you weren't in contract.

It mattered a lot more when they were giving subsidies, as the waiver of ETF all but assured that the subsidy was just lost money. As they are no longer subsidizing the phones for those with unlimited data plans, they don't have too much to lose by letting you go without ETF.

[Steveanderson13]

It can't hurt to be in contract, but it also doesn't offer too much protection anymore either. If they decide to change any terms in the middle of your contract, the worst that happens to them is that they have to let you cancel without ETF...which is the what you could do if you weren't in contract.

So a contract is no guarantees, ie price, unlimited, etc?

[veriztd]

So a contract is no guarantees, ie price, unlimited, etc?

A contract is merely a guarantee that the carrier will have a specified stream of income for a specified time frame and the consumer gets a subsidized device in return. Those are the only guarantees.

I am a former CS rep for At&t and currently employed in an industry where I deal with contracts daily (no longer in the communications industry and not a lawyer).

[TC_Mits]

I don't think they will let people keep unlimited but so long

This is vzw hawking 'new lamps for old'. It will entice, trick, cajole, shame, and even (very carefully) deceive us to separate us from the old gold unlimited lamps and it will polish and hype the hell out of its new brass shared ones.

But, vzw will not stoop to home invasion robbery. If you watch its moves, stay vigilant, and refuse to take the bait you will be able to keep your unlimited data for a good little while.

I have the America's Choice Plan.


Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]

[Steveanderson13]

A contract is merely a guarantee that the carrier will have a specified stream of income for a specified time frame and the consumer gets a subsidized device in return.

Well, first I was asking from a customer perspective, not a carrier's. And I guess you mean a minimum stream, not a specified one since a customer is free to reduce it.

And since a subsidized device is 20-24 months out, what does the contract contract for to the customer in the interim?

[veriztd]

what does the contract contract for to the customer in the interim?

It guarantees the price of the voice plan. Features such as messaging and data don't have the same guarantee. As pointed out earlier in this thread, such features can be removed by the customer at will with no penalty. The exception to that rule is that of a required data plan when the user has an active smart phone active on their mobile.

The consumer can freely reduce the cost of their plan by reducing their calling plan minutes without penalty.

The consumer gets a significant discount on a phone as an exchange to agree to enter a contract agreement for a specified period of time. Seems perfectly simple to me.

[GSMinCT]

Verizon would get in big trouble if they pulled unlimited plans mid-contract. That would be a material breach of contract. HOWEVER, they have two options:

1. Modify the unlimited plan so that it's still unlimited, but it's throttled like AT&T's. That's OK, as there are surely provisions like in AT&T's contract to modify the plan.

2. Force ANY subsidized upgrade on that account to de-grandfather everything on that whole account, including unlimited data, or else wait until the whole contract expired to de-grandfather it. That way, even the holdouts would be off it within 24 months, and in the mean time, they could throttle it.

[smasho]

Verizon would get in big trouble if they pulled unlimited plans mid-contract. That would be a material breach of contract. HOWEVER, they have two options:

1. Modify the unlimited plan so that it's still unlimited, but it's throttled like AT&T's. That's OK, as there are surely provisions like in AT&T's contract to modify the plan.

2. Force ANY subsidized upgrade on that account to de-grandfather everything on that whole account, including unlimited data, or else wait until the whole contract expired to de-grandfather it. That way, even the holdouts would be off it within 24 months, and in the mean time, they could throttle it.

#1 is what I predicted in post #2 of this thread. Throttle early and throttle aggressively, that way the unlimited plan becomes unusable and drives user off of it. If V was smart they would ramp this up over the course of a number of months.

#2 is the current policy. To keep unlimited you must upgrade at full price, take the subsidized price and you have to change to the new shared plan.

[smasho]

This is vzw hawking 'new lamps for old'. It will entice, trick, cajole, shame, and even (very carefully) deceive us to separate us from the old gold unlimited lamps and it will polish and hype the hell out of its new brass shared ones.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner.

[Extraordinary]

Just look at what has been done in the past. If they want you off they could throttle it down to 1kbps. Its still unlimited, just really slow, but lets not give them any ideas.

I'd be gone for sure, they won't keep me around unless they had a really nice incentive for me to stay. Not even free phones would do it. Prepaid would win me back.

I always hoped that the 2GB thing wouldn't have worked for AT&T, then none of this would have ever happened. Carriers will continue to raise data prices and find ways to offer less data until something happens. Vote with your wallets. Meanwhile, I hope every user on tiered data does as much as possible to get right up to their allotment of data. I even feel bad now when I let spare minutes go to waste. I am on a 1400 plan and we never even use 50% of those minutes.

[TC_Mits]

Yes, vzw could certainly resort to ATTM style throttling -- or worse -- and it could probably get away with it.

BUT. ATTM LTE is on the 850 band. Even if it feels confident about its impunity from any tangible legal repercussions of flouting the 'secret' FCC 700C regs, vzw still must consider the PR effects of the arrogance implicit in a heavy-handed approach like draconian throttling of LTE on 700C.


Perspective instantiates reality.
[From DX by HoFo app.]

[b005td]

verizon can't throttle their LTE
FCC say so

[ROLLTIDE]

verizon can't throttle their LTE
FCC say so

But for how long is that rule in effect and do you have a link ?