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Thread: Official Verizon web site to Check ESN open to the public.

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    Official Verizon web site to Check ESN open to the public.

    Official Verizon web site to Check ESN open to the public.

    I don't know if I'm the only one that knows about this. But it's good news.

    http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/e...ifieddevice/cd

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    Nice to know website.

    But still doesn't prevent the original owner from calling Verizon in and saying the phone was stolen 1-10 days later (after you buy it off Craigslist).

    Also doesn't prevent Verizon from blocking the esn a month later cause the original owner stopped paying their phone bill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aneftp View Post
    Nice to know website.

    But still doesn't prevent the original owner from calling Verizon in and saying the phone was stolen 1-10 days later (after you buy it off Craigslist).

    Also doesn't prevent Verizon from blocking the esn a month later cause the original owner stopped paying their phone bill.
    I may be naive in this area. Are you suggesting that if the buyer activates it on his account immediately, the seller (previous owner) can later affect the ESN? How is this possible? Assuming the phone was able to be activated on the buyer's account, it could not have been still connected to the seller's account. Hopefully you can clarify this for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aneftp View Post
    Also doesn't prevent Verizon from blocking the esn a month later cause the original owner stopped paying their phone bill.
    Quote Originally Posted by bassett View Post
    How is this possible? Assuming the phone was able to be activated on the buyer's account, it could not have been still connected to the seller's account. Hopefully you can clarify this for me.
    If the seller originally purchased the phone from Verizon, then there is still the on-line receipt on the seller's account. On the receipt, is the ESN. So, if they then don't pay their bill (possibly because the ETF was added), Verizon knows the ESN of the subsidized phone and can block it. BTW, this "black list" is separate from the lost/stolen list.

    From what I understand, the phone doesn't immediately stop working since it has already successfully passed the activation step. However, the phone can never successfully go thru the activation sequence again if in the future the buyer needs to do that (attempts to sell it to a 3rd party, swap it to another line, etc).

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    Quote Originally Posted by WaltA View Post
    If the seller originally purchased the phone from Verizon, then there is still the on-line receipt on the seller's account. On the receipt, is the ESN. So, if they then don't pay their bill (possibly because the ETF was added), Verizon knows the ESN of the subsidized phone and can block it. BTW, this "black list" is separate from the lost/stolen list.

    From what I understand, the phone doesn't immediately stop working since it has already successfully passed the activation step. However, the phone can never successfully go thru the activation sequence again if in the future the buyer needs to do that (attempts to sell it to a 3rd party, swap it to another line, etc).
    This is exactly what happened to someone who posted on HoFo. He bought a phone off of someone (I believe it was craigslist), activated it on his line and used it for some time (I don't recall whether it was months or a year or more). He then switched phones and when he tried to activate that phone onto another line, the phone was blacklisted.

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    Yeah I remember that thread. I think it was a 4G Iphone and as Jseah said the person bought it used and had it activated for some time but found out it was reported lost/stolen when he tried to re-activate on another line.

    There was also a poster recently who said the Vzw site posted by the OP is not very accurate.

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    I appreciate all the replies to my question in post #3. I remain a bit confused, however. Put aside the story someone posted on HoFo a few months ago (I recall reading it at the time). What I don't understand is this: In order for me (the buyer) to activate the phone on my account, it cannot be attached/connected to any other account. Assume the seller did one of the following: (1) removed the phone and replaced it with another, (2) removed the phone from the account, replaced it with another, then reported the original one as lost/stolen for insurance purposes, or (3) ported his number away from Verizon, thus leading to the closure of his account (with Verizon seeking final payment and/or ETF).

    Under #1, it is the new phone on the seller's account that would be subject to blacklisting should the account be terminated or have back payments. Wouldn't the old phone (the sold one) be free and clear so to speak? Under #2, how can the original (sold) phone be covered by insurance if it's been removed from the account. I thought insurance only covered active phones? Under #3, wouldn't the phone remain "locked" to the account until outstanding payments are made, thus not allowing the buyer to activate it in the first place?

    I guess I'm just confused about how an ESN can be made "bad" after it's been activated on someone else's account???

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    Quote Originally Posted by bassett View Post
    I guess I'm just confused about how an ESN can be made "bad" after it's been activated on someone else's account???
    I think you keep forgetting that Verizon knows the ESN from the phone it subsidized. What account it is currently active on, is completely irrelevant.

    A customer bought a subsidized phone, and then failed in their contractual requirements (ETF, paying on time, etc). Verizon simply and easily adds the ESN of that phone, to its "black list". Again, Verizon does not have to look up the ESN of what phone is currently active on that account. Instead it simply looks up the ESN from the sales receipt.

    If that ends up screwing the second owner at some point in the future, then that is an issue between the first owner and the second owner, not with Verizon. Verizon has no responsibly in that "other" transaction.

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    Let me add an analogy.

    I have car that I still owe $20,000. I sell the car to you. You don't care if I owe any money on the car; you are simply happy because you got the keys and the car. And of course, I stop making any payments on that $20,000 car loan.

    The bank doesn't care if the car has my plates on it, or if it has your new plates on it. They "repo" the car going by the VIN since they have a legal lean on that car.

    Does that help?

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    Thanks, WaltA...that clears it up. My confusion came from my incorrect assumption that VZW blocks the ESN for phones on the account at the time of the late payment, non-payment, termination, etc. A few years ago a co-worker ported his number out and then had a billing dispute with VZW. They blacklisted the phone on the account at the time the number ported out, not the original one that started the contract a year earlier. Something must have changed. This is great info to know, as I am a frequent buyer/seller of CL phones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WaltA View Post
    Let me add an analogy.

    I have car that I still owe $20,000. I sell the car to you. You don't care if I owe any money on the car; you are simply happy because you got the keys and the car. And of course, I stop making any payments on that $20,000 car loan.

    The bank doesn't care if the car has my plates on it, or if it has your new plates on it. They "repo" the car going by the VIN since they have a legal lean on that car.

    Does that help?
    This isn't the best analogy because posession of a car isn't ownership - the title is. Hence the bank that has the lien is the owner, not the one who currently drives it.

    A phone is different, there's no 'title' for it. Whoever holds it owns it, so if I paid you for it and you're fine with that - I now own it. Nobody has a lien on it.

    Now also about not fufilling the contract. VZW doesn't care about your phone and their contract with you doesn't include the phone. It says if you leave before whatever time, you owe us an ETF. That's how you fulfill the contract. You also agree that if you don't pay this, you'll ruin your credit and have debt collectors bugging you. Once again - the phone isn't involved. They aren't going to come take your phone from you like they definately would with a car.

    So, all in all, ESNs are terrible stupid and give VZW and Sprint WAY too much control over something they shouldn't and also in the end it makes consumers less protected. I can't take my phone to a new provider - even if it's a phone that'll work. I risk selling it due to many people leery of buying a 'blacklisted' phone. I'm at risk trying to buy one. Also, it opens up the world of false claims for insurance/warranty. You can double dip by selling your phone, report it lost, and either sell that one or use it. GSM phones can have this done obviously, but the original 'lost' phone can still be used and contribute back somehow into a revenue stream.

    /rant - sorry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morphling27 View Post
    So, all in all, ESNs are terrible stupid and give VZW and Sprint WAY too much control over something they shouldn't and also in the end it makes consumers less protected. I can't take my phone to a new provider - even if it's a phone that'll work. I risk selling it due to many people leery of buying a 'blacklisted' phone. I'm at risk trying to buy one. Also, it opens up the world of false claims for insurance/warranty. You can double dip by selling your phone, report it lost, and either sell that one or use it. GSM phones can have this done obviously, but the original 'lost' phone can still be used and contribute back somehow into a revenue stream.
    Isn't blacklisting the IMEI of a GSM phone the same as blacklisting the ESN of a CDMA phone? As I understand it, U.S. providers will now be required to utilize a lost/stolen database. The CDMA providers already do this, but it is new for the U.S. GSM providers. I understand that blacklist databases are common in Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morphling27 View Post
    This isn't the best analogy because posession of a car isn't ownership - the title is. Hence the bank that has the lien is the owner, not the one who currently drives it.

    A phone is different, there's no 'title' for it. Whoever holds it owns it, so if I paid you for it and you're fine with that - I now own it. Nobody has a lien on it.

    Now also about not fufilling the contract. VZW doesn't care about your phone and their contract with you doesn't include the phone. It says if you leave before whatever time, you owe us an ETF. That's how you fulfill the contract. You also agree that if you don't pay this, you'll ruin your credit and have debt collectors bugging you. Once again - the phone isn't involved. They aren't going to come take your phone from you like they definately would with a car.

    So, all in all, ESNs are terrible stupid and give VZW and Sprint WAY too much control over something they shouldn't and also in the end it makes consumers less protected. I can't take my phone to a new provider - even if it's a phone that'll work. I risk selling it due to many people leery of buying a 'blacklisted' phone. I'm at risk trying to buy one. Also, it opens up the world of false claims for insurance/warranty. You can double dip by selling your phone, report it lost, and either sell that one or use it. GSM phones can have this done obviously, but the original 'lost' phone can still be used and contribute back somehow into a revenue stream.

    /rant - sorry
    Are you saying that the phone isn't involved or that the phone *shouldn't* be involved with Verizon. Because the phone most definitely is involved, and this also holds true for after an ETF is issued. The phone will remain blacklisted until the ETF is paid off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShortSxit View Post
    Are you saying that the phone isn't involved or that the phone *shouldn't* be involved with Verizon. Because the phone most definitely is involved, and this also holds true for after an ETF is issued. The phone will remain blacklisted until the ETF is paid off.
    I was somewhat saying both. Clearly the contract is aimed at providing you service. I'm going off what I remember, I haven't read each of the 4's contracts fully. They never mention providing you a device in it. You just agree to that contract which is all about service and a term length, and they then give you a discount on some hardware.

    I think a better way to put it (it's not perfect, but how often can you compare apples to apples?) is if I bought a laptop at BestBuy and used their store credit card to buy it. Sometimes stores run promotions where if you use their card you get perks like a percentage off or no interest for a period - this is like getting your phone discounted for using their service. Say halfway after, I stop paying my bill and let it go and ruin my credit and get nasty calls. They don't blacklist the laptop's mac address from the internet (I know BestBuy doesn't run the internet which proves the telecos are way too intertwined with everything).

    Your credit card agreement is all about them letting you use their money and you agree to pay it back with set terms. If you break those terms, you get hit with late fees and raised interest and blah blah blah. They don't come take your stuff. They may put a lein on your car or house - but as I said earlier those are different since they have titles and ownership is treated differently.

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    And now, due to political pressure, AT&T is going to start pulling the same BS....

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