Everybody sick of gouging....

[tech4fun]

Everybody sick of gouging.... hear that over and over yet,


Rogers Q2 2012: Wireless subscriber base reaches 9.351 million, revenue increases 1%

They must be doing something right, let the trolling begin

[Mr Mystery]

[cloneman]

always great to have people who no thing about finance and corporate performance critique a company

"ROGERS MAKES MONEY SO THEY SHOULD BE NICER"

[ceredon]

ARPU continues to slide though the other growth metrics seems fairly stable/stagnant leading Nadir to mention that they will continue to "drive operational efficiencies".

I am sure that those losing their jobs through efficiencies will agree, that they must be doing something right.

[D Mac]

ARPU continues to slide though the other growth metrics seems fairly stable

ARPU decreasing is a fancy way of saying prices are decreasing and Rogers users are paying less than they used to. No one (except some shareholders) would say that is a bad thing.

[Mr Mystery]

I am sure that those losing their jobs through efficiencies will agree, that they must be doing something right.

I'm sure they have nothing but praise for the man they call Nadir

[D Mac]

I'm sure they have nothing but praise for the man they call Nadir

They are probably not ecstatic about it but at the same time I am not sure how anyone could condemn a company for seeking to be as efficient as possible.

[ceredon]

ARPU decreasing is a fancy way of saying prices are decreasing and Rogers users are paying less than they used to. No one (except some shareholders) would say that is a bad thing.

Totally agree. The problem is that with shrinking ARPU they need to seek to accelerate sub growth, which has not been happening enough to fully offset the lower ARPU. Hence the layoffs and other efficiencies. Bell and Telus seem to have a good balance, where improved value attracts customers and those customers, while seeking value spend more pushing up or stabilizing APRU. Rogers, faced with shrinking ARPU and stagnant subscriber growth seems stalled, leaving cuts as the only way they can think if to improve their numbers.

Looking at the Rogers and fido 6gb plans, compared to their peers, shows they have no clue.

[cloneman]

Totally agree. The problem is that with shrinking ARPU they need to seek to accelerate sub growth, which has not been happening enough to fully offset the lower ARPU. Hence the layoffs and other efficiencies. Bell and Telus seem to have a good balance, where improved value attracts customers and those customers, while seeking value spend more pushing up or stabilizing APRU. Rogers, faced with shrinking ARPU and stagnant subscriber growth seems stalled, leaving cuts as the only way they can think if to improve their numbers.

Looking at the Rogers and fido 6gb plans, compared to their peers, shows they have no clue.

I wonder who of the big 3 was hardest hit with the new entrants?

My assumption would be Rogers, who in my biased opinion has or had the largest best of "knowledgeable" cellphone users (first to release the iPhone, only carrier to support high end unlockable/GSM phones for many years)

[D Mac]

Totally agree. The problem is that with shrinking ARPU they need to seek to accelerate sub growth, which has not been happening enough to fully offset the lower ARPU. Hence the layoffs and other efficiencies. Bell and Telus seem to have a good balance, where improved value attracts customers and those customers, while seeking value spend more pushing up or stabilizing APRU. Rogers, faced with shrinking ARPU and stagnant subscriber growth seems stalled, leaving cuts as the only way they can think if to improve their numbers.

Looking at the Rogers and fido 6gb plans, compared to their peers, shows they have no clue.

Lately I haven't been following the industry as much as I used to, are you saying that Telus and/or Bell's ARPU is actually increasing? If so then to do that in the current market really does show they are doing something right.

The thing is Rogers is still the biggest and therefore they have the most to lose by offering lower priced plans or plans that really are all-in (meaning including voice, text, data And CD/VM). They need a way to increase customer spend after they pick the plan, so unfortunately I don't see them offering plans that include CD/VM in the foreseeable future.

[D Mac]

I wonder who of the big 3 was hardest hit with the new entrants?

My assumption would be Rogers, who in my biased opinion has or had the largest best of "knowledgeable" cellphone users (first to release the iPhone, only carrier to support high end unlockable/GSM phones for many years)

That's an interesting point. I am sure you are correct. Any phone geek or just anyone that was into tech was on Rogers because of SIM cards, GSM, hardware selection, etc. So with all those advantages nullified they would undoubtedly have lost a large part of those educated consumers. Whereas Telus and Bell customers being largely less educated and/or less concerned about the wireless industry would have presumably lost less.

[CGY Guy]

Yes, people are sick of gouging. I wish my pay scale increased at the same rate of prices. Food, fuel, utilities, and such. Raise prices, and I will cancel stuff like cable TV. To me, this is a non-essential service. Food, not so much.

It's time the corporate world clued in. People are not made of money, and some have to sacrifice just to have a cell. It makes more sense than a LL these days.

Back when I worked for Telus, they used to brag about 'record profits' at team meetings. How ARPU (average revenue per user) was going up. Of course, the price hikes were what made it so. Net sub increases were fairly low.

Back in the day during current economic times like this, companies were happy just to make a profit, instead of going in the red. That meant layoffs for workers. These days, it's all about the shareholder leeches.

Screw 'em. If I have to live with less, so do you!

[ceredon]

Lately I haven't been following the industry as much as I used to, are you saying that Telus and/or Bell's ARPU is actually increasing? If so then to do that in the current market really does show they are doing something right.

The thing is Rogers is still the biggest and therefore they have the most to lose by offering lower priced plans or plans that really are all-in (meaning including voice, text, data And CD/VM). They need a way to increase customer spend after they pick the plan, so unfortunately I don't see them offering plans that include CD/VM in the foreseeable future.

Indeed they are.

Telus posted 1.7% increase in ARPU for wireless the first quarter of 2012, which was the 6th consecutive quarter with an increase. (year over year)
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/9708...r-2012-results

Notably, TELUS reported industry leading wireless average revenue per unit (ARPU) and subscriber churn metrics. ARPU increased by 1.7 per cent - the sixth consecutive quarter of year-over-year growth.

Bell posted an increase of 4.2% in blended ARPU in the first quarter. (year over year)
http://www.bce.ca/news-and-media/rel...uarter-of-2012

Blended ARPU was $53.84 per month in Q1 2012, up 4.2% compared to $51.68 per month in Q1 2011. Growth in blended ARPU was primarily the result of increasing data usage which reflects a greater percentage of higher-value postpaid customers using smartphones in our subscriber base. That was partly offset by declining voice ARPU.

Rogers on the otherhand, for the same 1st quarter, showed a drop of 3.8% and now for this second quester saw a year over year drop of 1.9%.
http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.por...bel=IR_LANDING



Rogers is the biggest and has the most to lose, but that does not mean they have to lose the most customers and it certainly should not mean they have to see a continued reduction in ARPU. Customers respond to value, even if it is only perceived. Bell and Telus and their sub brands have done a much better job, IMO, in selling themselves as having a better value proposition. This means they not only keep the customers they have, they have been gaining new customers. And customers that see value will spend. That might be counter-intuitive, that a customer wanting to spend less will spend more, but it actually makes sense. They don't all want to just spend less, they want value, they want more for their money. That can directly lead to improved ARPU. Rogers instead has decided on a nickel and dime model, where there is always something missing and always an additional cost. This leave customers fatigued from extra costs. Customers that feel they are not getting good value will seek to get more and/or pay less. This drives retentions demands and churn and remaining customers looking for a way to reduce costs, often by removing options or calling retentions.

This is all just my opinion, but it what I have seen for a few years as I've watched Rogers. It doesn't seem to be getting better. Numbers were artificially improved with their cost reductions, but those are transient improvements. You can't just cut more every quarter to bounce the numbers. What happens when there is nothing left to cut? If the spiral of shrinking ARPU and stagnant growth continues, then all you have left is more cuts.

They have some time yet. They were build in an environment without competition and where they were coddled and protected and have that historic position to sustain them for a while. Bell and Telus seemed to clue into what the new entrants meant, which is customer want value. Rogers never saw this, even as it was beating down their door. But if they don't learn soon, then before they know it, the next crisis will be here. Foreign ownership restrictions are finally going to be lifted (at some point, assuming the government follows their plans) which will be catastrophic for a Rogers that has not changed course. I have serious doubts they will learn in time.

It is stunning that some people think "they are doing something right". What exactly? They made some additional profits this quarter, but those jobs that paid for the increase probably aren't too happy. Job cuts almost never make customers spend more.

Edit: I realized that sounded like I was a Bell/telus cheerleader. Far from it. It is quite likely that the improvements that have seen have more from capitalizing on Rogers missteps than on their own ingenuity in business planning. But that doesn't change the fact that Rogers is stumbling. All three of them need to really figure out what is coming down the pipe and adjust to new realities.

[D Mac]

Indeed they are.

Telus posted 1.7% increase in ARPU for wireless the first quarter of 2012, which was the 6th consecutive quarter with an increase. (year over year)
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/9708...r-2012-results


Bell posted an increase of 4.2% in blended ARPU in the first quarter. (year over year)
http://www.bce.ca/news-and-media/rel...uarter-of-2012


Rogers on the otherhand, for the same 1st quarter, showed a drop of 3.8% and now for this second quester saw a year over year drop of 1.9%.
http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.por...bel=IR_LANDING



Rogers is the biggest and has the most to lose, but that does not mean they have to lose the most customers and it certainly should not mean they have to see a continued reduction in ARPU. Customers respond to value, even if it is only perceived. Bell and Telus and their sub brands have done a much better job, IMO, in selling themselves as having a better value proposition. This means they not only keep the customers they have, they have been gaining new customers. And customers that see value will spend. That might be counter-intuitive, that a customer wanting to spend less will spend more, but it actually makes sense. They don't all want to just spend less, they want value, they want more for their money. That can directly lead to improved ARPU. Rogers instead has decided on a nickel and dime model, where there is always something missing and always an additional cost. This leave customers fatigued from extra costs. Customers that feel they are not getting good value will seek to get more and/or pay less. This drives retentions demands and churn and remaining customers looking for a way to reduce costs, often by removing options or calling retentions.

This is all just my opinion, but it what I have seen for a few years as I've watched Rogers. It doesn't seem to be getting better. Numbers were artificially improved with their cost reductions, but those are transient improvements. You can't just cut more every quarter to bounce the numbers. What happens when there is nothing left to cut? If the spiral of shrinking ARPU and stagnant growth continues, then all you have left is more cuts.

They have some time yet. They were build in an environment without competition and where they were coddled and protected and have that historic position to sustain them for a while. Bell and Telus seemed to clue into what the new entrants meant, which is customer want value. Rogers never saw this, even as it was beating down their door. But if they don't learn soon, then before they know it, the next crisis will be here. Foreign ownership restrictions are finally going to be lifted (at some point, assuming the government follows their plans) which will be catastrophic for a Rogers that has not changed course. I have serious doubts they will learn in time.

It is stunning that some people think "they are doing something right". What exactly? They made some additional profits this quarter, but those jobs that paid for the increase probably aren't too happy. Job cuts almost never make customers spend more.

Edit: I realized that sounded like I was a Bell/telus cheerleader. Far from it. It is quite likely that the improvements that have seen have more from capitalizing on Rogers missteps than on their own ingenuity in business planning. But that doesn't change the fact that Rogers is stumbling. All three of them need to really figure out what is coming down the pipe and adjust to new realities.

Thanks for the links. Its interesting that Telus customers pay the most for their service. Based on the comments you see here you would think it was Rogers customers. But that being said I do understand your comments of value vs. price.

Just to clarify you said: It is stunning that some people think "they are doing something right" (your quotes not mine)
I am the only one that said the words you quoted so I assume you were talking about me, but I was referring to Bell and Telus not Rogers when I said those words. So were you quoting me or something someone said elsewhere that just happened to be the exact same words as me?

[ceredon]

Thanks for the links. Its interesting that Telus customers pay the most for their service. Based on the comments you see here you would think it was Rogers customers. But that being said I do understand your comments of value vs. price.

Just to clarify you said: It is stunning that some people think "they are doing something right" (your quotes not mine)
I am the only one that said the words you quoted so I assume you were talking about me, but I was referring to Bell and Telus not Rogers when I said those words. So were you quoting me or something someone said elsewhere that just happened to be the exact same words as me?

Not you. First post.

Also, Telus customers may pay more over all, but perhaps they get more for their money or feel they do. Something is working better over there. For now.