no more EDGE to 3g/4g expansions?

[formercanuck]

It's weird, it's either hspa+ or edge it doesn't seem like there's anything in between

At&t Coded their 4G capable phones to display 4g instead of 3g, if i'm not mistaken.

[ilvla2]

I LIVED in a 1900MHZ market with HSPA and GSM out in rural, actually the rural 1900mhz GSM coverage was decent. If the network is setup for 1900mhz it will be ok. Also i don't know why you don't get how HSPA should be deployed even with LTE....it would suck if it wasn't.

Exactly! That's all we have on AT&T here in former Edge Wireless markets, and it works well. Our area, along with many of Edge Wireless' former markets is mountainous and heavily forested too, and in our area that includes Redwoods that can reach 400 feet in height, the tallest mountain in Mendocino County is Anthony Peak, at just under 7500 feet.

[ggore]

In the engineering mode on the phone itself we have some very rural towers without HSUPA just HSDPA as hard as it is to believe and the phone indicates HSDPA Instead of the typical HSPA+ or HSPA

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

There are a LOT of places around the country like that. Large parts of entire states, some for AT&T and most of the regional GSM carriers. i.e. Viaero in Nebraska.

[10mm]

I was wondering about this. I have a Samsung Galaxy S3 and I have yet to see a 3G icon. Only thing I've seen in E, 4G, 4G LTE, and I have even seen G briefly. I have been to alot of areas that on the map show 3G...yet my phone shows 4G. Then a few weeks ago I was in a 3G area according to the maps and it said E. So, either ALL the 3G areas are now HSPA+, or my phone does not display the 3G icon. I don't get why it wouldn't, it displays all the rest of them.

From what was explained to me is 100% of AT&T's "3G" network has been upgraded with hardware that sends the "4G" signal to all of the new phones but if the tower is not backhauled with fiber,ethernet,or microwave you won't get the fast HSPA+ speeds. So basically your phone will display 4G but you will only get 3G speeds. My older phone (HTC Inspire) would always display H+ in areas around Flint that was still technically 3G. One thing that really ticks me off is the AT&T network seems to boot me off the faster data tier after my phone has been inactive for a while. It will run at 1.5 megs time and time again until I turn off the data network in settings. I wait a few seconds and then turn it back on and sure enough it runs at 5-9 megs down. I have never seen "G" on my phone just E,4G,and hopefully while I'm young....4G Lte!!

[Shizam76]

From what was explained to me is 100% of AT&T's "3G" network has been upgraded with hardware that sends the "4G" signal to all of the new phones but if the tower is not backhauled with fiber,ethernet,or microwave you won't get the fast HSPA+ speeds. So basically your phone will display 4G but you will only get 3G speeds. My older phone (HTC Inspire) would always display H+ in areas around Flint that was still technically 3G. One thing that really ticks me off is the AT&T network seems to boot me off the faster data tier after my phone has been inactive for a while. It will run at 1.5 megs time and time again until I turn off the data network in settings. I wait a few seconds and then turn it back on and sure enough it runs at 5-9 megs down. I have never seen "G" on my phone just E,4G,and hopefully while I'm young....4G Lte!!

Yep...Ive seen G.

Ok ....I see. I was on a tower today shaded as 3g on the map. Phone said 4g however my Download speed was only 600kb ish. No backhaul :-(

[Jordan T]

Now while I agree with ggore that the lack of 3G in his market is unfortunate, what he FAILS to point out is that no national carrier has 3G in his market:

AT&T: GSM
T-Mobile: GSM
Verizon: NO SERVICE
Sprint: NO SERVICE

[10mm]

In the engineering mode on the phone itself we have some very rural towers without HSUPA just HSDPA as hard as it is to believe and the phone indicates HSDPA Instead of the typical HSPA+ or HSPA

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

I have the Network Signal Info app from Android and it is not always correct. At home in S.E. Michigan it says I am on HSDPA 7.2 Mb/s which is incorrect. The network around here has been 14.4 for quite a while.

[Jordan T]

I have the Network Signal Info app from Android and it is not always correct. At home in S.E. Michigan it says I am on HSDPA 7.2 Mb/s which is incorrect. The network around here has been 14.4 for quite a while.

Doesn't mean the app isn't correct. Depends what it's reading. Higher speeds require higher order modulation and/or less forward error correction. Thus, require a better RF environment. A lot more of AT&T's network is probably 21mbps capable than most people realize, it's just 64QAM over the air isn't the easiest modulation to attain in the real world. Heck, at first cable systems had issues with 256QAM and had to do 64QAM for digital cable (back when they were made for analog and many connections were iffy). If 64QAM was the best the cable systems of yesterday could manage, do you really think it's gonna work that well in a noisy air environment.

LTE brings a more advanced air interface that makes higher order modulation work better. UMTS is just a wide CDMA channel - when there's traffic, it's noisy.

[zephxiii]

I have the Network Signal Info app from Android and it is not always correct. At home in S.E. Michigan it says I am on HSDPA 7.2 Mb/s which is incorrect. The network around here has been 14.4 for quite a while.

Using what phone?

Sent from my MB865 Atrix 2.

[ggore]

Now while I agree with ggore that the lack of 3G in his market is unfortunate, what he FAILS to point out is that no national carrier has 3G in his market:

AT&T: GSM
T-Mobile: GSM
Verizon: NO SERVICE
Sprint: NO SERVICE

And that is a factor exactly how?

But here I sit, happy as a Verizon customer now, my iPhone displaying "Extended 3G" (from Pioneer Cellular), knowing that LTE will be available here in the next few months via Pioneer/Verizon, and none of this can never go away without Pioneer abandoning their roaming agreement with Verizon and abandoning the LTE in Rural America program, ending up stuck owning an LTE system that would be rendered useless unless they own some other spectrum they could use. At least Verizon is doing something to help customers in areas they chose not to serve directly, putting the spectrum they own here to actual use.

That's far more than you can say for AT&T, Sprint, or T-Mobile.

[Jordan T]

And that is a factor exactly how?

But here I sit, happy as a Verizon customer now, my iPhone displaying "Extended 3G" (from Pioneer Cellular), knowing that LTE will be available here in the next few months via Pioneer/Verizon, and none of this can never go away without Pioneer abandoning their roaming agreement with Verizon and abandoning the LTE in Rural America program, ending up stuck owning an LTE system that would be rendered useless unless they own some other spectrum they could use. At least Verizon is doing something to help customers in areas they chose not to serve directly, putting the spectrum they own here to actual use.

That's far more than you can say for AT&T, Sprint, or T-Mobile.

It means no signal on Verizon for prepaid, iPad users, etc. That's why it's relevant. Not all customers can roam for any carrier.

[ggore]

It means no signal on Verizon for prepaid, iPad users, etc. That's why it's relevant. Not all customers can roam for any carrier.

Uh, Verizon pre-paid works here, I have a friend who uses that and his phone works just fine here. Here's Verizon's Pre-Paid map for Oklahoma:

Attachment 83961
Attachment 83962

And I have a Verizon iPad and it works just fine, it displays "Extended 3G" same as my iPhone and displays "Verizon LTE" ten miles from here when it uses Pioneer's new LTE system, so I still don't get your point.

Oh and you forgot one:
US Cellular: NO SERVICE (Pioneer's always had a fully reciprocal nationwide roaming agreement with USCC)

[Jordan T]

Uh, Verizon pre-paid works here, I have a friend who uses that and his phone works just fine here. Here's Verizon's Pre-Paid map for Oklahoma:

And I have a Verizon iPad and it works just fine, it displays "Extended 3G" same as my iPhone and displays "Verizon LTE" ten miles from here when it uses Pioneer's new LTE system, so I still don't get your point.

Oh and you forgot one:
US Cellular: NO SERVICE (Pioneer's always had a fully reciprocal nationwide roaming agreement with USCC)

69 cents/minute roaming isn't "just fine" in my eyes. Unless Verizon quit charging... but I'm pretty sure they still do.

Is your iPad on a plan or prepaid? I was under the impression prepaid data devices couldn't roam.

Also, as you learned too painfully well with Sprint roaming agreements can change on a moment's notice. That said, with the LTE deal if Pioneer backs out, they're screwed.

[ggore]

69 cents/minute roaming isn't "just fine" in my eyes. Unless Verizon quit charging... but I'm pretty sure they still do.

Is your iPad on a plan or prepaid? I was under the impression prepaid data devices couldn't roam.

Also, as you learned too painfully well with Sprint roaming agreements can change on a moment's notice. That said, with the LTE deal if Pioneer backs out, they're screwed.

You said there is no signal on Verizon Pre-paid phones, I clearly showed that there is. Now you want to shift the discussion to rates. I have no knowledge about rates.

I have a data plan on my iPad, 2GB/month, I signed up for it on the device itself just like one does on an AT&T iPad, there's no difference.

Do you really believe Pioneer would be spending millions of dollars building an LTE system with ANY possibility of being stuck with a useless system should Verizon decide to go another direction? Really? I'll bet anything there is an iron-clad contract somewhere that will prevent that from ever happening or there will be severe consequences for whichever company defaults. And not just in the case of Pioneer, we're talking regional carriers all over the country. I'm not so naive to think that nothing's impossible in the business world, but c'mon.

This is a completely different situation than a mere roaming agreement like Pioneer had with Sprint. There was no system infrastructure involved in the roaming agreement with Sprint at all, just a "use mine and I'll use yours" setup that went south when Sprint decided they didn't want to service rural areas any more, only covering interstates and major cities all across the country, and Pioneer saw a hugely better situation for them in signing up for Verizon's LTE in Rural America program. I can't believe you even think dropping that is a possibility.

Here's a quote from the Daily Oklahoman (Oklahoma City newspaper) regarding Sprint ending their roaming agreement with Pioneer:
"Sprint network coverage will change focus to major metropolitan areas and along interstates, leaving other areas reliant on roaming on other carriers. The move is a cost-cutting measure for Sprint, which has been selling more smartphones and seeing its customers using more data, according to a Sprint spokesman."

[Wireless Junkie]

You said there is no signal on Verizon Pre-paid phones, I clearly showed that there is. Now you want to shift the discussion to rates. I have no knowledge about rates.

I have a data plan on my iPad, 2GB/month, I signed up for it on the device itself just like one does on an AT&T iPad, there's no difference.

Do you really believe Pioneer would be spending millions of dollars building an LTE system with ANY possibility of being stuck with a useless system should Verizon decide to go another direction? Really? This is a completely different situation than a mere roaming agreement like Pioneer had with Sprint. There was no system infrastructure involved in the roaming agreement with Sprint at all, just a "use mine and I'll use yours" setup that went south when Sprint decided they didn't want to service rural areas any more, only covering interstates and major cities all across the country, and Pioneer saw a hugely better situation for them in signing up for Verizon's LTE in Rural America program. I can't believe you even think dropping that is a possibility.

Here's a quote from the Daily Oklahoman (Oklahoma City newspaper) regarding Sprint ending their roaming agreement with Pioneer:
"Sprint network coverage will change focus to major metropolitan areas and along interstates, leaving other areas reliant on roaming on other carriers. The move is a cost-cutting measure for Sprint, which has been selling more smartphones and seeing its customers using more data, according to a Sprint spokesman."

Havent you heard, native EDGE on AT&T clearly is better than roaming with Verizon and getting 3G/4G..