no more EDGE to 3g/4g expansions?

[johnhere]

Yeah I worry about what AT&Ts plans are in terms of rural expansions. They kind of made threats if the tmo deal fell through.

[Jordan T]

Hutchinson, KS is similar - halfwway between 'Great Bend, KS' (pop 10,000 - has 3g with EB) and Witchita, KS(has LTE), and it has 'EDGE' with population of over 40,000.

T-Mobile is actually even further behind. They still don't have 3G coverage between Barstow and Las Vegas (I-40) or I-5 between Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Looking a Sprint's map, its got a lot of 1x coverage as well outside of interstates/metros. Hutchinson KS and the pan handle of OK are covered in 3G though

Hutchinson, KS is ridiculous, I didn't realize a city that big was still GSM only. I can name many smaller places (NOT just ex-Alltel) that are 3G... gotta wonder. Have to wonder with Verizon too. I'm living in Kalispell, MT, which got LTE - but my hometown of Helena didn't - despite being larger and the freaking state Capital!

T-Mobile is right about where most carriers, globally speaking, are with 3G deployment. AT&T has done an EXCELLENT job, and Verizon absolutely superb (they had an easier task with EVDO, but the speed they're deploying LTE - which I'm considering their true 3G and 4G network since EVDO is a bad joke - skipping Helena or not - is just insane).

[ggore]

Hutchinson, KS is ridiculous, I didn't realize a city that big was still GSM only. I can name many smaller places (NOT just ex-Alltel) that are 3G... gotta wonder. Have to wonder with Verizon too. I'm living in Kalispell, MT, which got LTE - but my hometown of Helena didn't - despite being larger and the freaking state Capital!

T-Mobile is right about where most carriers, globally speaking, are with 3G deployment. AT&T has done an EXCELLENT job, and Verizon absolutely superb (they had an easier task with EVDO, but the speed they're deploying LTE - which I'm considering their true 3G and 4G network since EVDO is a bad joke - skipping Helena or not - is just insane).

Yes, Verizon has LTE in Great Bend and Wichita both, but not in Hutchinson. That along with AT&T's GSM-only makes one think there must be something else going on. It cannot just be the NIMBY thing, because both carriers serve the place, the basic tower site infrastructure is in place already. Terrain is not a factor requiring lots of new sites for LTE, it's flat as a pancake. The Wichita market is unique for AT&T, however. It's a native island for them, completely surrounded by roaming/partner coverage, so I wonder if that has something to do with Hutchinson, as it's surrounded on 3 sides by roaming, but butts up against that wall of 3G in western Kansas.

[formercanuck]

Hutchinson, KS is ridiculous, I didn't realize a city that big was still GSM only. I can name many smaller places (NOT just ex-Alltel) that are 3G... gotta wonder. Have to wonder with Verizon too. I'm living in Kalispell, MT, which got LTE - but my hometown of Helena didn't - despite being larger and the freaking state Capital!

T-Mobile is right about where most carriers, globally speaking, are with 3G deployment. AT&T has done an EXCELLENT job, and Verizon absolutely superb (they had an easier task with EVDO, but the speed they're deploying LTE - which I'm considering their true 3G and 4G network since EVDO is a bad joke - skipping Helena or not - is just insane).

Up 'north of the border', pretty much anywhere that was 1x or GSM/EDGE is now HSPA+ few exceptions.

[Jordan T]

Up 'north of the border', pretty much anywhere that was 1x or GSM/EDGE is now HSPA+ few exceptions.

Bell/Telus built a CDMA to UMTS overlay, so they had no choice but to cover the whole thing.

Rogers, which has been in the GSM family from day one, still has substantial GSM/EDGE coverage, mostly in Saskatchewan

[Squid7085]

Yes, Verizon has LTE in Great Bend and Wichita both, but not in Hutchinson. That along with AT&T's GSM-only makes one think there must be something else going on. It cannot just be the NIMBY thing, because both carriers serve the place, the basic tower site infrastructure is in place already. Terrain is not a factor requiring lots of new sites for LTE, it's flat as a pancake. The Wichita market is unique for AT&T, however. It's a native island for them, completely surrounded by roaming/partner coverage, so I wonder if that has something to do with Hutchinson, as it's surrounded on 3 sides by roaming, but butts up against that wall of 3G in western Kansas.

I know Spectrum was always a concern there, originally AT&T did not serve Hutch at all, that was about 5-6 years ago. They put up a few sites purely for roaming coverage (State Fair Mostly) and I remember hearing they didn't even own spectrum or very little, they leased it from T-Mobile (Owned the spectrum with the plan to launch there, but still has yet to launch there.) I am sure some deal was worked out with them allowing T-Mobile roaming rights.

A few years later AT&T bought a company, the name escapes me, and launched native service in Hutch, I don't believe that company actually owned any towers, I think they were just stores. That could also be a reason behind the delay, AT&T but in the investment to BUILD, not Upgrade a complete network in Hutch, which consisted of about 6 sites in the city and a few more on the highway to Wichita. I had heard from very reliable people that AT&T has the 3G equipment in place and the last rumblings were Spectrum issues. This was over 2 years ago now, and those people no longer can get that information. If AT&T still does not indeed own spectrum rights and is still on that leasing agreement, that could be a huge part of the problems.

There was a similar issue West of Wichita, AT&T, or the former Cingular had leased most (possibly all) of the 850 Spectrum West of Wichita to Alltel, it was not until Verizon bought out Alltel that AT&T was able to reclaim that area and expand coverage to the rest of Sedgwick County (Something they still haven't done "well.")

Edit: I took a look on the FCC board, and it looks like AT&T only has one small slice of PCS (The other slice is leased to Commnet.) T-Mobile also has some, but no network, so that fits in with me hearing that AT&T had leased from T-Mobile. The good news, AT&T has 700Mhz and AWS in Reno County (Where Hutch is.) So the Future may be brighter, and they may even skip right to LTE.
http://reboot.fcc.gov/spectrumdashbo...sationId=66547

[formercanuck]

Bell/Telus built a CDMA to UMTS overlay, so they had no choice but to cover the whole thing.

Rogers, which has been in the GSM family from day one, still has substantial GSM/EDGE coverage, mostly in Saskatchewan

Rogers has GSM/EDGE in Sask/ east coast, while Bellus has GSM/EDGE in Manitoba/NW Ontario combined, they cover Canada pretty good on HSPA+. If you're in one of those areas, you have to pick your carrier carefully.

[Jordan T]

Looking at the FCC Spectrum Dashboard makes the lack of 3G in Hutchison much more understandable, most of their PCS spectrum except a 5/5 is leased to Commnet. Therefore, the ONLY way they could launch 3G is if they completely shut down GSM.

[formercanuck]

Kind of reminds me of Santa Fe before At&t had Alltel divested markets.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using HowardForums

[Squid7085]

Looking at the FCC Spectrum Dashboard makes the lack of 3G in Hutchison much more understandable, most of their PCS spectrum except a 5/5 is leased to Commnet. Therefore, the ONLY way they could launch 3G is if they completely shut down GSM.

Given there is a redundant Commnet GSM network there which, mind you, was AT&T's only coverage there not but 5 or so years ago, they ought to just light up 3G and make it a 3G only area. Ironically the T-Mobile Merger would have in fact helped this case, one of the few places AT&T wasn't stretching the truth about.

[jim9000]

About 5 cell sites in rural Eastern North Carolina along US 64 are now showing as 3G on the coverage map. I don't remember this being the case a week or two ago. There is no enhanced backhaul yet, but AT&T's trend around here is to upgrade the radio side of the network to HSPA+, then add enhanced backhaul within a few months. This is a very rural area and the only carriers with native service are US Cellular, Verizon, and AT&T.

So it appears that AT&T is still expanding their 3G/4G HSPA+ network.

[Wireless Junkie]

Bell/Telus built a CDMA to UMTS overlay, so they had no choice but to cover the whole thing.

Rogers, which has been in the GSM family from day one, still has substantial GSM/EDGE coverage, mostly in Saskatchewan

And that show's GSM carrier's are crappy compared to CDMA

[formercanuck]

And that show's GSM carrier's are crappy compared to CDMA

Well, Rogers/TBayTel is the only coverage in NW Ontario, and technically speaking, its WCDMA.
Bell has to roam on GSM in NW Ontario through DMTS, as it doesn't have any service there. Similar case in Manitoba.

GSM or nothing - take your pick.

[zephxiii]

Just saw this thread and nope, I've just seen a lot of new HSPA expansion in my area. It probably looks like it's on hold because of jump starting the LTE deployment before iphone5 hits.

[10mm]

It is in AT&T's best interest to upgrade nationwide to at least 4G/HSPA+. If they don't, Verizon and Sprint will bury them. I live in southeast Michigan(40 miles north of Detroit)and still no sign of an AT&T LTE rollout which is unbelievable considering Sprint has announced that eastern Michigan is one of the next on the list for their LTE deployment. Now AT&T and Verizon share many towers and if Verizon plans to have nationwide LTE by Q4 2013, then those towers will be backhualed with fiber so no excuse to have at least HSPA+.