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Thread: Failure of the New Brands

  1. #1
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    Failure of the New Brands

    Shaw is out & sold their spectrum
    Wind is in serious trouble financially (CEO even stepping down & they need cash infusion badly)
    Mobilicity & Public never took off

    Really Videotron might be only successful entrant out there

    So how about it, can Canada support 4 wireless brands?
    Seems to me despite lower prices people are not willing to jump ship

    The other interesting fact is the CRTC reporting price for entry level plans has actually INCREASED since new entrants launched
    It is sad I need to state the obvious but some people just don't get it. Any posts I make are my own OPINIONS and in no way represent the views of my employer

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    Failure of the New Brands

    Quote Originally Posted by kav2001c View Post
    Shaw is out & sold their spectrum
    Wind is in serious trouble financially (CEO even stepping down & they need cash infusion badly)
    Mobilicity & Public never took off

    Really Videotron might be only successful entrant out there

    So how about it, can Canada support 4 wireless brands?
    Seems to me despite lower prices people are not willing to jump ship

    The other interesting fact is the CRTC reporting price for entry level plans has actually INCREASED since new entrants launched

    Wind CEO is not stepping down. He has been bought out and everything he owned with it. Globalive is no longer an affiliation and tony shouldn't have been a CEO ever.

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    Re: Failure of the New Brands

    Wind Mobile is far from a failure. Yes, they have not met their target of 1,500,000 subscribers. But they are by far the fastest growing carrier in Canada. They are already the 4th largest carrier in the country.

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    MTS & SaskTel have more subs than WIND does (and even Videotron has been jumping up the charts, they had *46%* subs growth!!!)
    WIND is not (and has never been contrary to fanboy dreams) the 4th largest carrier

    SaskTel: 2.16%
    MTS: 1.88%
    WIND: 1.61%
    Mobilicity: 1.14%
    Videotron: 1.1%
    Public Mobile: 0.76%

    WIND ARPU is higher than it was ever supposed to be (new entrants low end users are higher today than last time CRTC polled back in 2008)
    WIND has not been able to create a national network yet (only the major cities and burbs have coverage, some of their spectrum will be lost if they do not build on it)
    WIND has not met any of their own personal targets (lower subscribers, and much higher than expected churn)
    WIND still (desperately) needs cash but nobody wants to invest

    Videotron in a single province, with far less time in market has nearly as many active subs as WIND across country & was able to build much better profit margins (heck even Public Mobile is making more money than WIND with a fraction of the overhead costs)
    Videotron rate of growth is also increasing at a greater rate than WIND

    And as stated above, even MTS is ranked ahead of WIND

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    Quote Originally Posted by kav2001c View Post
    So how about it, can Canada support 4 wireless brands?
    Seems to me despite lower prices people are not willing to jump ship
    Just not willing to jump to shakey emerging networks. If they can hang around long enough to deliver near big 3-level network reliability/accessibility in their coverage areas I'd wager conversions will accelerate.

    Quote Originally Posted by kav2001c View Post
    The other interesting fact is the CRTC reporting price for entry level plans has actually INCREASED since new entrants launched
    My impression is (after their initial caution about the new network launches) rate increases have become larger and more frequent as the big 3 have grown overconfident.

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    I fall into the same category of ppl who doesn't want to switch to Wind or Mobi because I don't trust their networks. My GF switched from Telus to Mobi but it wasnot a great network. Her phone was a Nexus S so unlocked so she took and tried Wind. That was horrible - she couldn't hold a conversation due to constant breakup of the connection.

    I am almost off contract and was seriously debating switching to Wind but now I doubt I will. I don't have a home line and am often out in Durham so I need my phone to work. The new guys can't build their networks fast enough to make them competitive with the big guys.

    While some would say well the market has spoken and can only support rogers, bell, telus economically. I disagree. Rogers and Bell particularly have had such unfair regulatory advantage over the past few decades that of course their networks are going to be awesome. They better be considering the profits they make relative to their much larger peers in the US and Europe.

    CRTC protected them for years with "Canadian ownership rules" yet they allow upstarts with no money to come in and compete. You know what they're doing is basically install a few new guys to make everyone think its progressive, but Wind and Mobi will spend money, build networks. Then they'll run out of $ and will have to eventually sell themselves to pay their debts. And who will be there? The only "Canadian" companies with deep enough pockets...Rogers/Bell/Telus/Shaw. Its like Rogers and Microcell (old Fido) all over again.

    Meanwhile the financial advantage of the big guys was lenders financed them heavily because of their monopoly status. Every Cdn (and foreign lender) than financed these guys internally viewed them as monopoly / oligopolies. Rogers had that stupid dual share structure as well - use public money but keep the voting control. Nothing competitive about that.

    CRTC should be abolished. They bring no value to Canadians and protect the only 3 Cdns that matter in their eyes. I find it silly that government allows foreign multinationals to come and buy out Canada's scarce resources without batting an eye yet we won't allow efficient telecoms come in from the US and provide Canadians with better service and value. Its not like these guys keep the jobs here...try calling Bell and see if anybody in Canada answers.

    Hate the CRTC

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    Whoa - sorry about the rant. I guess I feel more strongly about the CRTC than I thought

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    Um..it's not the CRTC that controls spectrum and licencing for wireless services... it's Industry Canada. If you're going to drop a hate-on, do it against IC... CRTC is just a mouthpiece...
    Cheeri'o...
    Frankie...

    Please Note: I do not work for Bell. I also do not work for any wireless retail outlet.
    Do not ask me about promotions or offers from wireless providers.

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    I wouldn't say that WIND is in financial trouble but their ownership issues need to be resolved.

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    I can tell you limited coverage area isnt the only issue holding back new entrants. The customer service at Wind is BAD and for that reason alone would not recommend them to anyone. I do believe it is a matter of time before they get acquired by one of the big 3, most likely Rogers. I dont think Orascom is committed to further investment into Wind Canada personally.

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    Re: Failure of the New Brands

    Quote Originally Posted by jtw1979 View Post
    I can tell you limited coverage area isnt the only issue holding back new entrants. The customer service at Wind is BAD and for that reason alone would not recommend them to anyone. I do believe it is a matter of time before they get acquired by one of the big 3, most likely Rogers. I dont think Orascom is committed to further investment into Wind Canada personally.
    They aren't. They are looking for a seller. Rogers most likely.

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    Canada though prosperous, is not a big market country. The reality is that the sheer size and scope required for a modern high-quality voice and high-speed data network can only be done by a few companies in Canada. Even Telus and Bell couldn't do it without combining their efforts.

    If you want new companies with the scope and ability to build a national quality network, that means foreign companies, period. Even in that case, Canada has the problem of being extremely modern but extremely friggin' massive, so I don't know which players would have the kind of experience needed to make another network workable here.

    The government is not helping anyone by protecting these companies. They should allow foreign companies to build and set the ground rules for everyone. In the end it's more helpful to our economy to have a competitive industry rather than a 'Canadian' one.

    When we eventually get technology that allows small handsets to access satellite signals and the same network can be provided to anyone, anywhere, you will have real competition because it will be global. That is far more likely to be the future mechanism of change in the industry than new local players.

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    Telus and Bell combined forces for their new networks for two reasons: 1) Speed of deployment and 2) Canadians travel across the country.

    It wasn't that long ago when a regional network was sufficient in Canada. MiKE did surprisingly well with "corridor" coverage for years. Remember when Bell and Telus had corridor coverage maps that showed the local roaming rates for analog service?
    The MiKE network never really grew until Motorola reduced the cost of the network so much that they practically gave parts away to Telus and Nextel.

    Times have changed and demand for wireless in more places makes that reality obsolete.

    It doesn't matter what the Canadian government does. It doesn't matter what it says. International companies still see Canada as a country with BARELY the value of the state of California when it comes to wireless subs. In fact, they think we're one big North Dakota when it comes to wireless usage. How's that for a laugh?

    They also see a very well established set of companies already serving the country better than many other take-over-worthy countries had when GSM spread throughout Europe in the late 90s and early y2k.

    Why would any of the huge international wireless companies want to invest in a country, given its size, it's population spread, and it's current wireless penetration?

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankie5string View Post
    Telus and Bell combined forces for their new networks for two reasons: 1) Speed of deployment and 2) Canadians travel across the country.

    It wasn't that long ago when a regional network was sufficient in Canada. MiKE did surprisingly well with "corridor" coverage for years. Remember when Bell and Telus had corridor coverage maps that showed the local roaming rates for analog service?
    The MiKE network never really grew until Motorola reduced the cost of the network so much that they practically gave parts away to Telus and Nextel.

    Times have changed and demand for wireless in more places makes that reality obsolete.

    It doesn't matter what the Canadian government does. It doesn't matter what it says. International companies still see Canada as a country with BARELY the value of the state of California when it comes to wireless subs. In fact, they think we're one big North Dakota when it comes to wireless usage. How's that for a laugh?

    They also see a very well established set of companies already serving the country better than many other take-over-worthy countries had when GSM spread throughout Europe in the late 90s and early y2k.

    Why would any of the huge international wireless companies want to invest in a country, given its size, it's population spread, and it's current wireless penetration?
    It's a good question. One we'll never know the answer to I suppose, until they are allowed to try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RogersUser1
    Quote Originally Posted by frankie5string View Post
    Telus and Bell combined forces for their new networks for two reasons: 1) Speed of deployment and 2) Canadians travel across the country.

    It wasn't that long ago when a regional network was sufficient in Canada. MiKE did surprisingly well with "corridor" coverage for years. Remember when Bell and Telus had corridor coverage maps that showed the local roaming rates for analog service?
    The MiKE network never really grew until Motorola reduced the cost of the network so much that they practically gave parts away to Telus and Nextel.

    Times have changed and demand for wireless in more places makes that reality obsolete.

    It doesn't matter what the Canadian government does. It doesn't matter what it says. International companies still see Canada as a country with BARELY the value of the state of California when it comes to wireless subs. In fact, they think we're one big North Dakota when it comes to wireless usage. How's that for a laugh?

    They also see a very well established set of companies already serving the country better than many other take-over-worthy countries had when GSM spread throughout Europe in the late 90s and early y2k.

    Why would any of the huge international wireless companies want to invest in a country, given its size, it's population spread, and it's current wireless penetration?
    It's a good question. One we'll never know the answer to I suppose, until they are allowed to try.
    They are allowed to try...

    As long as they control less than 10% of the market when they buy-in, they are welcome to grow into the number one carrier.

    It just has to be organically. (AT&T can't buy Bell, but they could buy Wind, and grow it beyond the market share they have)
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