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Thread: Verizon 2G shut down by 12-31-2019

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebiLee View Post
    Shakrai, not sure if you already knew about this, but I came across this in my research. http://www.droid-life.com/2014/11/21...speaker-grill/
    I knew about the LED; Cyanogenmod uses it for notifications rather than Motorola's preferred "Active Display" nonsense.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunya_Bizness View Post
    Then why are the listed as a bidder and put down a downpayment?
    I didn't say that they didn't bid. The link I shared was directly from the mouth of the CFO saying that they really don't need 600MHz (because they don't). They already have nationwide 700MHz, and as Verizon has already pointed out, 600MHz and 700MHz do not play well together if they're deployed in the same market. It requires a lot of tweaking that really wouldn't be worth the very minimal coverage gain. They've been clear that it would be more trouble than it's worth.

    The argument is pointless anyways, since 600MHz would provide only negligible coverage improvements over 700MHz, and no speed improvements. Verizon has been clear that they want mid-band spectrum to help with capacity in congested areas, especially now with 3xCA on the horizon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nunya_Bizness View Post
    How much spectrum do you need for phone calls? On CDMA it's not even 8 kbps. Who makes calls anymore? And yes that's a bit sarcastic but our usage is down at least 80% over what it was 3 years ago. Not to mention Verizon has wi-fi calling now which also helps in areas with bad signal. Assuming you have wi-fi access of course. For people to say Verizon won't be able to do this or that 3 1/2 years from now based on TODAY is ridiculous.
    I don't know, but I know that if you have a lot of people trying to make CDMA calls (and use it for data) on a site with very little spectrum, it's not going to work well.

    Do you know the amount of Verizon customers using Wi-Fi calling currently? I can't imagine it's very high, since it's not available on most phones, was just recently supported, and is not enabled by default (customers have to dig through the settings to enable it). I can't imagine very many customers are using it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2400zr View Post
    That article is 8 months old and says that Verizon will walk away if the price wanted by a 3rd party gets too high; it doesn't say that they don't want 600Mhz and doesn't even mention 700Mhz.
    Better? http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/...rum/2015-10-20

    "Speaking during the company's third-quarter earnings conference call, Verizon CFO Fran Shammo noted that Verizon first deployed LTE using nationwide, contiguous 700 MHz spectrum. "That doesn't mean that we can't operate with 600," he said. "But 600 and 700 don't play well together. There's a lot of interference. So where we have 700 there would be a lot of work to deploy 600 MHz spectrum."

    Shammo said there are areas where Verizon could use more lower-band spectrum, "but it's probably not the top priority. We like the higher band like AWS."


    Quote Originally Posted by Nunya_Bizness View Post
    I think this guy likes to argue. here's another one from the same time that says Verizon WILL participate

    http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/...rum/2015-10-20
    Again, I never said Verizon said they wouldn't participate. I said they said they weren't interested in 600MHz spectrum, which is accurate. Nice try, though.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnywlsh View Post
    That's quite a statement to make. Have you used their LTE network in every part of the country to know that it's reliable enough to replace CDMA? Many people are saying otherwise based on their experience.

    There are many areas where LTE still does not reach, and only CDMA does.
    I said, "As far as I'm concerned," i.e., "In my experience...."

    No, I've not been to EVERY square mile of CONUS. I have screwed around with VoLTE in 12 or 13 States east of the Mississippi though. With my phone locked to LTE-only I have yet to find a location CDMA reaches where LTE does not. My phone will fall back to 1x/EVDO if I allow it to, but locked to LTE-only it will keep a signal with acceptable T1-like data speeds and reliable voice service everywhere I have 1x coverage.

    In my experience, the difference in reach between Band 13 LTE and cellular 1x/EVDO is negligible. If your experience is different then perhaps you need a better device, from a company that doesn't cut corners on radio and antenna quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnywlsh View Post
    And the fact that they're stripping spectrum from CDMA to move to LTE doesn't help either.
    How much spectrum do you think they need for CDMA? When VoLTE is the rule rather than the exception they can get away with a single 1X carrier (1.25MHz) for m2m/IoT devices and people too cheap to upgrade.

    Hell, they already get away with a single carrier on a lot of cell sites. My xt1060 had a CDMA debug screen and only rarely did I see it change from channel 384 (283 in 'A' side land) during a call. This held true in rural, urban, and suburban areas. CDMA capacity is difficult to predict but generally speaking they can count on at least ~30 active calls per carrier.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnywlsh View Post
    The argument is pointless anyways, since 600MHz would provide only negligible coverage improvements over 700MHz, and no speed improvements.
    Really? "600 MHz" could as low as 575 MHz for downlink compared to 746 MHz for band 13. And 647 MHz for uplink compared to 777 MHz for band 13. I'm pretty darned sure a 171 MHz improvement in downlink and a 130 MHz improvement for uplink is more than "just marginal"

    Verizon has been clear that they want mid-band spectrum to help with capacity in congested areas, especially now with 3xCA on the horizon.
    In those area then VoLTE shouldn't be an issue. So no one should be concerned.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakrai View Post
    How much spectrum do you think they need for CDMA? When VoLTE is the rule rather than the exception they can get away with a single 1X carrier (1.25MHz) for m2m/IoT devices and people too cheap to upgrade.

    Hell, they already get away with a single carrier on a lot of cell sites. My xt1060 had a CDMA debug screen and only rarely did I see it change from channel 384 (283 in 'A' side land) during a call. This held true in rural, urban, and suburban areas. CDMA capacity is difficult to predict but generally speaking they can count on at least ~30 active calls per carrier.
    No kidding. As of March 31st Verizon already had 85% smartphone penetration and 95% of those were 4G phones. Every phone sold in the last 18 months or so is HD calling capable. I would say at least 50% of the smartphones on their network are VoLTE capable now. By late 2019 smartphones will be 95% or more and 99.95% at least will be VoLTE capable.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunya_Bizness View Post
    If you don't wish to back up your claims that's on you. I'll be here. threads don't go away.
    I just don't wish to talk to you, right or wrong. I'm not trying to offend. You're just being too abrasive. I'm merely suggesting that you stop attacking people you disagree with in a sarcastic tone. It doesn't further your argument, at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilvla2 View Post
    You need to get a new Samsung.
    No thanks. The only one I ever owned was the Galaxy Nexus and it was a POS. That phone dropped calls on major interstate highways where I've not seen a dropped call on Verizon since the late 1990s. It constantly switched between LTE and CDMA; you could be sitting somewhere with clear LOS to an LTE base station, signal >-60dBm and it would still fallback to CDMA for reasons completely unknown.

    That POS met its end when I threw it out of my car window at 70mph after four or five dropped calls in a row, for work, in a area would I could SEE the damn Verizon tower I was connected to. After that I will never own a Samsung device, even if I hadn't witnessed my sister's phone doing the same stupid ****, all these years later.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatoncat View Post
    I just don't wish to talk to you, right or wrong. I'm not trying to offend. You're just being too abrasive. I'm merely suggesting that you stop attacking people you disagree with in a sarcastic tone. It doesn't further your argument, at all.
    I'm not being abrasive YOU are. I'm not attacking anyone. Not agreeing with you doesn't mean I'm attacking you. It means I don't agree with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunya_Bizness View Post
    Every phone sold in the last 18 months or so is HD calling capable. I would say at least 50% of the smartphones on their network are VoLTE capable now. By late 2019 smartphones will be 95% or more and 99.95% at least will be VoLTE capable.
    First statement is just absolutely not true. Do you have source for the other two statements? Not saying you aren't correct, but I'd be really surprised if 50% are volte capable. I know lot's of people who keep a phone three or four years. Not everybody buys the latest and greatest.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnywlsh View Post
    I didn't say that they didn't bid. The link I shared was directly from the mouth of the CFO saying that they really don't need 600MHz (because they don't). They already have nationwide 700MHz, and as Verizon has already pointed out, 600MHz and 700MHz do not play well together if they're deployed in the same market. It requires a lot of tweaking that really wouldn't be worth the very minimal coverage gain. They've been clear that it would be more trouble than it's worth.




    "Speaking during the company's third-quarter earnings conference call, Verizon CFO Fran Shammo noted that Verizon first deployed LTE using nationwide, contiguous 700 MHz spectrum. "That doesn't mean that we can't operate with 600," he said. "But 600 and 700 don't play well together. There's a lot of interference. So where we have 700 there would be a lot of work to deploy 600 MHz spectrum."
    I'm calling BS. How can there be serious interference between 600 and Verizon's 700 (actually around 750) MHz spectrum when their ~750 MHz band already gets along just fine with 850 MHz?

    Verizon is obviously bluffing to get the FCC and other potential buyers to undervalue this very-valuable spectrum. They can claim it's all about midband until they're blue in the face, but the fact is, their 700 MHz is overloaded in MANY places. They desperately need some more low-band spectrum to reach the areas they simply can't cover with mid-band, due to zoning issues, NIMBYs, or whatever else is stopping densification in so many areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    I'm calling BS. How can there be serious interference between 600 and Verizon's 700 (actually around 750) MHz spectrum when their ~750 MHz band already gets along just fine with 850 MHz?

    Verizon is obviously bluffing to get the FCC and other potential buyers to undervalue this very-valuable spectrum. They can claim it's all about midband until they're blue in the face, but the fact is, their 700 MHz is overloaded in MANY places. They desperately need some more low-band spectrum to reach the areas they simply can't cover with mid-band, due to zoning issues, NIMBYs, or whatever else is stopping densification in so many areas.
    Agree 100%. It's the last low band auction for a very long time. If Shammo doesn't think they need a nationwide block of 2x10 600 he's sorely mistaken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    I'm calling BS. How can there be serious interference between 600 and Verizon's 700 (actually around 750) MHz spectrum when their ~750 MHz band already gets along just fine with 850 MHz?
    Yeah that confused me. How can band 13 and band 5 play nice but 600 MHz can't when its clearly further away? I prefer they get 20X20 600 MHz then sell off band 13 and be done with the stupid rules that apply to ONLY that band.

    Verizon is obviously bluffing to get the FCC and other potential buyers to undervalue this very-valuable spectrum. They can claim it's all about midband until they're blue in the face, but the fact is, their 700 MHz is overloaded in MANY places. They desperately need some more low-band spectrum to reach the areas they simply can't cover with mid-band, due to zoning issues, NIMBYs, or whatever else is stopping densification in so many areas.
    They all play that game. T-Mobile claims they can get all the spectrum they need for $1 bil which is a farce. It's going to cost then at least $4 bil even in the reserved spectrum to get nationwide 5X5. No company in their right mind would spell out their auction plans. The FCC will NOT get $88 bil though. So we will see a phase 2 possibly phase 3 or phase 4. Would be shocked if the actual amount of spectrum sold is 70 MHz not 100 MHz. We'll know a lot more by the end of the forward auction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmtvaquero View Post
    First statement is just absolutely not true. Do you have source for the other two statements?
    Yeah go to the Verizon website and shop for a phone. Site list 28 phones. 25 of which are HD voice capable https://www.verizonwireless.com/smartphones/hd-voice/ of course there are many phones they no longer sell that are also HD voice capable

    Not saying you aren't correct, but I'd be really surprised if 50% are volte capable. I know lot's of people who keep a phone three or four years. Not everybody buys the latest and greatest.
    iPhone 6, 6 plus, 6s and 6s Plus are all VoLTE capable. iPhones make up over 40% of all phones on Verizon's network and those 4 make up the majority of iPhones in use. As you know iPhone users DO in fact upgrade more often. Now if we assume that 80% of all iPhones on Verizon network are the four I mentioned and iPhones overall are 40% of all phones on Verizon's network are iPhones then math says that 32% of all phones on Verizon's network are those four phones. So to get to 50% we only need roughly 30% of android phones on Verizon's network to be VoLTE capable. I'll bet any amount of money that is the case at the very minimum.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunya_Bizness View Post
    Yeah that confused me. How can band 13 and band 5 play nice but 600 MHz can't when its clearly further away? I prefer they get 20X20 600 MHz then sell off band 13 and be done with the stupid rules that apply to ONLY that band.
    Uhhh and make things worse for customers? Allow them to throttle unlimited data? Nobody except Verizon seems to want that. Why would you? It's good that the big guys have to play by the rules. That 10x10 700 block is a gold mine and having them have to use it in a fair way is good news for everyone except Verizon's deep pockets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunya_Bizness View Post
    I prefer they get 20X20 600 MHz then sell off band 13 and be done with the stupid rules that apply to ONLY that band.
    The Band 13 rules benefit us all.
    Last edited by nostaldia; 07-15-2016 at 01:26 AM.

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