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Thread: How does Market Owership between T-Mobile and C Spire work?

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    How does Market Owership between T-Mobile and C Spire work?

    Was looking at Spectrumgatway Omega Map and selected 700 Mhz Band A. It shows most of Mississippi except for the very center band is listed as Market Ownership with both T-Mobile and C Spire. Also, the two networks shares ownership in Mobile Al. Now does the story below help T-Mobile or not?

    RCR Wireless had this story C Spire nears completion of 700 MHz, 850 MHz LTE network enhancements

    Note with the 850Mhz (Cellular B ) it looks like C Spire has Market Owership in about the same areas with AT&T.

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    That's misleading. What CSpire did was to partition some of their 700 MHz licenses so that T-Mobile got parts in Alabama and Tennessee but CSpire kept the parts in Mississippi. Actually CSpire kept the parts a couple of counties into Alabama, too. If you tunnel down into the FCC documents, there are maps. Also, this map is less confusing.
    Donald Newcomb

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    That's misleading. What CSpire did was to partition some of their 700 MHz licenses so that T-Mobile got parts in Alabama and Tennessee but CSpire kept the parts in Mississippi. Actually CSpire kept the parts a couple of counties into Alabama, too. If you tunnel down into the FCC documents, there are maps. Also, this map is less confusing.
    With all respect the map you gave me just has T-Mobile listed for Band 12. I'm not confused by the Spectrum Omega map it is just a question about Market Ownership in that area by C Spire and T-Mobile. Are you saying the Omega Map in that area is incorrect? There are tons of spectrum all over the USA where the Omega Map shows shared Market Ownership between networks and rural networks all over the USA. What I want to know is how shared Market Ownership works. I can tell you those area on that Spectrum Omega Map didn't have T-Mobile on that map in Mississippi about a year ago. Also, I know C Spire sold a lot of 700Mhz block A in mainly middle and East Tennessee.

    BTW, this is a FCC Lic assigned to T-Mobile in Jackson Ms that I took off the Omega Map for Submarket 6

    http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsS...licKey=3836857


    BTW, this is a FCC Lic assigned to C Spire in Jackson Ms that I took off the Omega Map for Submarket 5

    http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsS...licKey=3024982

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    CSpire continues full ownership of LTE 700a spectrum in the entire state of MS and is not sharing that with T-Mobile whatsoever, they will be deploying their network on that spectrum. CSpire owned almost all of the 700a spectrum in the state of Alabama and what they did was split off the majority of their 700a holdings that covered markets like Birmingham/Tuscaloosa, Anniston, Huntsville, and Montgomery all the way down to Wilcox county. They never had intention of deploying services in these parts, and in fact sold off their only running network in north Alabama to AT&T (Corr Wireless) some time ago.

    I believe they also still hold 700a in counties in the far SW portion of Alabama below Wilcox however so T-Mobile will not be deploying 700Mhz. I'm not sure of the area they sold off in TN though.

    TL;DR - No spectrum sharing is going on between T-Mobile and CSpire so there will be no benefit to either party unless they establish a roaming agreement later on. Roaming looks unlikely considering the huge gaps of coverage still predicted in the 2017 coverage maps. CSpire split off some of their holdings in parts of Alabama and TN completely and any deployment in those areas belong solely to T-Mobile. The map is deceptive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    With all respect the map you gave me just has T-Mobile listed for Band 12. I'm not confused by the Spectrum Omega map it is just a question about Market Ownership in that area by C Spire and T-Mobile. Are you saying the Omega Map in that area is incorrect? There are tons of spectrum all over the USA where the Omega Map shows shared Market Ownership between networks and rural networks all over the USA. What I want to know is how shared Market Ownership works. I can tell you those area on that Spectrum Omega Map didn't have T-Mobile on that map in Mississippi about a year ago. Also, I know C Spire sold a lot of 700Mhz block A in mainly middle and East Tennessee.

    BTW, this is a FCC Lic assigned to T-Mobile in Jackson Ms that I took off the Omega Map for Submarket 6

    http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsS...licKey=3836857


    BTW, this is a FCC Lic assigned to C Spire in Jackson Ms that I took off the Omega Map for Submarket 5

    http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsS...licKey=3024982
    CSpire sold off licenses, either in whole, or paritioned geographically.

    In the case of the Jackson, Memphis, and Mobile licenses, they were geographically partitioned.

    The specmap, developed by @siromega, can not parse these geographic partitions. So the one licensed area will show multiple owners for the same licensed area.

    If you actually look at the first link, which is the T-Mobile owned license in the Jackson, MS license, you can easily see that the the only licensed counties are Greene and Marengo Counties, AL. Just click on the market or the map tabs.

    Its worth mentioning that these geographic partitions are completely different from spectrum partitions, commonly seen in the PCS band, where say the C block, can be broken into 2-3 different smaller licenses within the same block and license.

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    I didn't realize until just recently that CSpire holds the PCS D block in the Tuscaloosa BTA (KNLG350), which extends down through Demopolis, almost to Thomasville.

    They're also filing for renewal of that license, despite, to my knowledge, no use of the license at all.

    Can't believe they haven't built that out, or sold it off yet. It sits adjacent to T-Mobile's B block, which makes them an obvious suitor, or Sprint, who owns the A block in Tuscaloosa. Sprint likely needs the spectrum more, as T-Mobile has 50 MHz of contiguous AWS (C-F), and entire PCS B block, and lower 700a, for total of roughly 90 MHz of spectrum, but that extra 10 MHz would make them king there with enough density.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reedacus25 View Post

    If you actually look at the first link, which is the T-Mobile owned license in the Jackson, MS license, you can easily see that the the only licensed counties are Greene and Marengo Counties, AL. Just click on the market or the map tabs.

    Its worth mentioning that these geographic partitions are completely different from spectrum partitions, commonly seen in the PCS band, where say the C block, can be broken into 2-3 different smaller licenses within the same block and license.
    Thanks I saw the Greene and Marengo Counties, AL taps and understand now. Don't see how C Spire that is the nations's 6th largest network can stay in business and still build out 900 towers. Hopefully T-Mobile will get enough 600 Mhz to cover those areas with Sub 1Ghz band spectrum.

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    @CircuitSwitched and @reedacus25 have done a good job of explaining it. Spectrum Omega does not show subdivided (partitioned) licenses, rather the names when you click on the license areas are links to the FCC's license files. These web pages have a tab that says "Map" which shows how the license has been partitioned.

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    How does Market Owership between T-Mobile and C Spire work?

    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Thanks I saw the Greene and Marengo Counties, AL taps and understand now. Don't see how C Spire that is the nations's 6th largest network can stay in business and still build out 900 towers. Hopefully T-Mobile will get enough 600 Mhz to cover those areas with Sub 1Ghz band spectrum.
    They can build it out the same way the previously 4th Largest carrier, now 3rd did it. They have money set aside to overlay and upgrade the network with LTE.

    I mean they thrive on being pretty much a Mississippi only phone company so being 6th largest has no bearing on their ability to build out.

    Doesn't look like T-Mobile plans on expanded coverage this yea, hopefully 2018 will bring something else.

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    CSpire survives because Mississippians are loyal to the "home town team" even though they were very slow to deploy LTE. We had CSpire service for over 24 years but ported out when they wouldn't activate our Nexus 5X. Sprint's customers in Mississippi have the advantage of being able to use CSpire's network for data, as well as voice and text.

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    Mississippian here. CSpire is super slow. I'm talking 2-3 Mbps on LTE. People are jumping ship to AT&T. On the plus side, a lot of metroPCS stores have been popping up across the state. I have 4 in my town.

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    One thing to remember is that with most of the people that CSpire covers, they are not techy people. These are people who just want a phone "that works" and working for CSpire is voice/text, and it pretty much fits that bill. Data is a slow trudge of moving to LTE, but they are hamstrung with the 3GPP2 "path" to LTE (there is none). So customers are still loyal to CSpire as the 'reliability king.'

    I know they are throwing as much spectrum at the fire as they can, with 5 MHz of 700, 5 MHz of 850, and 10 MHz of 1900 of LTE on air in Starkville as of last fall.

    And speaking of Starkville, there's a MetroPCS store I saw pop up on the west side of town, where I'm fairly certain there is no coverage in the store. So thats funny...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    CSpire survives because Mississippians are loyal to the "home town team" even though they were very slow to deploy LTE. We had CSpire service for over 24 years but ported out when they wouldn't activate our Nexus 5X. Sprint's customers in Mississippi have the advantage of being able to use CSpire's network for data, as well as voice and text.
    Well that loyalty to C Spire is going to be tested since T-Mobile has Four Blocks of 600Mhz for a 20x + 20x coverage for the whole state of Mississippi. http://maps.spectrumgateway.com/t-mobile-600-mhz.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Well that loyalty to C Spire is going to be tested since T-Mobile has Four Blocks of 600Mhz for a 20x + 20x coverage for the whole state of Mississippi. http://maps.spectrumgateway.com/t-mobile-600-mhz.html
    But there are also enough UHF TV stations to keep 600 MHz tied up for a while and T-Mobile has never shown any urgency about covering rural MS. I'll bet it will take at least 4 years for T-Mobile to come close to CSpire's footprint in MS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    But there are also enough UHF TV stations to keep 600 MHz tied up for a while and T-Mobile has never shown any urgency about covering rural MS. I'll bet it will take at least 4 years for T-Mobile to come close to CSpire's footprint in MS.
    Not entirely true. The T-Mobile footprint has certainly grown over the past decade past the original I-55/I-20/I-22 corridors, albeit mostly along larger corridors and population centers.

    The big ones that stick out to me are:
    US-45/ALT TN-Meridian project
    MS Delta project
    MS-25 Starkville to Jackson project
    Centennial/ATT overbuild in SW MS
    North MS Unicel overbuild (roughly bound Grenada to Houston to Pontotoc to Batesville) project.
    Easily the most rural project, close second being the Delta project. The Unicel area is heavy forestation, where the Delta is, well, flat delta, cover a lot with a little. And the old Centennial footprint roam overbuild project was very poorly executed, as the one piece that matters the most (I-55, and McComb too) were grossly underserved, in an attempt to just paint the coverage map as pink as possible.

    Its still very telling that T-Mobile hit 100% LTE site acceptance in the state of MS long before CSpire hit most of the major transportation corridors. Mind you CSpire allegedly had more LTE sites on air than T-Mobile has in the state, which speaks to the difference in network density, as of January 2016 (http://www.cspire.com/company_info/a...tryId=24800016), but its clear these were clustered around population centers, and not along roads. They were clearly holding out for 700/850 gear to get there to have LTE match 1x range roughly.

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