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Thread: Unlocked Band 66 devices like OnePlus 5 arenít guaranteed to work on Freedom LTE

  1. #1
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    Unlocked Band 66 devices like OnePlus 5 arenít guaranteed to work on Freedom LTE


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    That sucks. Lack of Wifi calling support on BYOD is another reason to buy from Freedom even though devices are usually available elsewhere for less.

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    It's not Freedom, but rather some default modem settings that are causing issues (specifically, a lack of some settings in the default Qualcomm EFS package). It seems like OPO is eager to blame Freedom, but the root cause lies within Qualcomm's default settings most likely.

    I've been able to successfully patch a Moto G5 Plus to work on Freedom properly: https://forum.xda-developers.com/g5-...-call-t3635304
    From what I see, all B66 phones should be patch-able to properly handle reconnecting to Freedom after CSFB.

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    So why isnt this a problem on the big 3 for example?

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    B66 seems to be quite special in the EFS configuration items for Qualcomm modems. I don't know why this is, but it has special configs like /nv/item_files/wcdma/rrc/rrc_b66_plmn_support for example while other bands do not.

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    If freedom values their customer base, they should not be hiding behind fine print. I am so glad this company is disappearing in my rear view mirror. To me their only mission is to give reason for the competition to have discounts from time to time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by will888 View Post
    If freedom values their customer base, they should not be hiding behind fine print. I am so glad this company is disappearing in my rear view mirror. To me their only mission is to give reason for the competition to have discounts from time to time.
    And one reason why I didn't hop on the Band 66 wagon yet. But if the iPhone 8 will have Band 66 in the modem (rumoured but not confirmed), Freedom will have no other choice but to open that up to everyone. Apple could force that onto Freedom that Samsung, LG and Huawei cannot to have iPhones on Freedom take the same advantage and features that iPhones on the Big 3, plus SaskTel and others currently have. I now use an iPhone 6S Plus (time to change my profile). It works well with Freedom, except for Facetime, for me at least. A cash grab at this point in time is a fairly accurate representation. Apple didn't put Band 66 in the iPhone 7 probably because I believe it was still new.

    The CRTC should step in and stop this nonsense, especially when Freedom says to bring your own phone. Clearly it favors Freedom's devices vs. the One Plus 5 et. al. Users should not have to modify their phones just for this. From what I'm reading, all of you had to modify your phones just to get Band 66, when you should not. Any 3G/HSPA+ phone will work with Freedom (frequency-wise), so why not this?

    The other reason it's not a problem for the Big 3 is because they don't use Band 66 for LTE. Be fun to see what they do with the spectrum from Videotron. If they are smart, they'd refarm that for LTE on "legacy" devices. They don't have to use Band 4. Band 7, 12 (for those that have it) and 13 work just as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver8666 View Post
    And one reason why I didn't hop on the Band 66 wagon yet. But if the iPhone 8 will have Band 66 in the modem (rumoured but not confirmed), Freedom will have no other choice but to open that up to everyone. Apple could force that onto Freedom that Samsung, LG and Huawei cannot to have iPhones on Freedom take the same advantage and features that iPhones on the Big 3, plus SaskTel and others currently have. I now use an iPhone 6S Plus (time to change my profile). It works well with Freedom, except for Facetime, for me at least. A cash grab at this point in time is a fairly accurate representation. Apple didn't put Band 66 in the iPhone 7 probably because I believe it was still new.

    The CRTC should step in and stop this nonsense, especially when Freedom says to bring your own phone. Clearly it favors Freedom's devices vs. the One Plus 5 et. al. Users should not have to modify their phones just for this. From what I'm reading, all of you had to modify your phones just to get Band 66, when you should not. Any 3G/HSPA+ phone will work with Freedom (frequency-wise), so why not this?

    The other reason it's not a problem for the Big 3 is because they don't use Band 66 for LTE. Be fun to see what they do with the spectrum from Videotron. If they are smart, they'd refarm that for LTE on "legacy" devices. They don't have to use Band 4. Band 7, 12 (for those that have it) and 13 work just as well.
    There is nothing being "favoured."
    It's clearly a configuration issue in the firmware for Qualcomm devices. If there is someone to blame, its either Qualcomm (for requiring custom configuration for B66/CFSB) or Nokia for not properly implementing Freedoms B66 signalling. There is nothing Freedom has put in place to prefer one device vs. another, as a simple firmware patch fixes the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zivan56 View Post
    There is nothing being "favoured."
    It's clearly a configuration issue in the firmware for Qualcomm devices. If there is someone to blame, its either Qualcomm (for requiring custom configuration for B66/CFSB) or Nokia for not properly implementing Freedoms B66 signalling. There is nothing Freedom has put in place to prefer one device vs. another, as a simple firmware patch fixes the issue.
    Your statement fails to convince me. We've already had 2 users (possibly more) have to modify their phones so they can get Band 66. This is where the favourtisim comes from. If you get a phone from Freedom, you get Band 66. If not, as for our One Plus 5 users et. al., you're s--- out of luck. Your technical reference also fails to convince me as well. If you have to modify your phone to get onto band 66, the technical reference is absolute garbage. You should NOT have to do this. You should be able to ride the Band 66, 4, 13, or 666 wave like anyone else. As for blame, well you know that's called "passing the buck".

    For this example, we'll be using the terms "New" (for Band 66 phones) and "Legacy" (everyone else).

    Legacy devices can connect to Freedom's 3G network. I've used a Blu Studio C (which is what I came to Wind with), 3 Asus phones (ZE551KL, ZE551ML and ZE552KL), and 2 iPhones (6S and 6S Plus). All of them perform flawlessly on Freedom's 3G network (that's 6 phones if you are keeping count) and all of them on Freedom as BYOD.

    New devices such as Freedom's offerings and those of One Plus 5 etc. should be able to, without modification of any kind, to connect to Band 66. Full Stop. If Legacy devices can connect to the 3G network, so can devices not offered by Freedom that have Band 66. This is where BYOD comes in.

    Because of BYOD, this is where I drew the "favouritism" that I have used in this thread. That's abundantly clear as crystal. If Rogers did this since you are a Rogers sub, how would you feel?

    Wait until Apple manufactures a phone with Band 66. Let's see what happens then. If carrier branding was still allowed to go on, you sure as hell are not going to get Apple to make a phone just for Freedom's Band 66, and have their unlocked phones without it. At this point Apple would tell Freedom to "f--- off" (I would). If Apple make sone phone with Band 66, irregardless of carrier branding, you can bet all of them will have Band 66 (unlocked ones). And ALL of them will be expected to connect to Band 66 without any modification. Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver8666 View Post
    Your statement fails to convince me. We've already had 2 users (possibly more) have to modify their phones so they can get Band 66. This is where the favourtisim comes from. If you get a phone from Freedom, you get Band 66. If not, as for our One Plus 5 users et. al., you're s--- out of luck. Your technical reference also fails to convince me as well. If you have to modify your phone to get onto band 66, the technical reference is absolute garbage. You should NOT have to do this. You should be able to ride the Band 66, 4, 13, or 666 wave like anyone else. As for blame, well you know that's called "passing the buck".

    For this example, we'll be using the terms "New" (for Band 66 phones) and "Legacy" (everyone else).

    Legacy devices can connect to Freedom's 3G network. I've used a Blu Studio C (which is what I came to Wind with), 3 Asus phones (ZE551KL, ZE551ML and ZE552KL), and 2 iPhones (6S and 6S Plus). All of them perform flawlessly on Freedom's 3G network (that's 6 phones if you are keeping count) and all of them on Freedom as BYOD.

    New devices such as Freedom's offerings and those of One Plus 5 etc. should be able to, without modification of any kind, to connect to Band 66. Full Stop. If Legacy devices can connect to the 3G network, so can devices not offered by Freedom that have Band 66. This is where BYOD comes in.

    Because of BYOD, this is where I drew the "favouritism" that I have used in this thread. That's abundantly clear as crystal. If Rogers did this since you are a Rogers sub, how would you feel?
    The modification is not required by Freedom.

    The required configuration is due to the way Qualcomm has set up B66. Freedom did not ask Qualcomm to put in this arbitrary EFS item to make it work on their network.
    If anything is missing, its signalling from Nokia to force the device from UMTS B4 to LTE B66, although that should not be required due to a proper SIB19. So it is unclear who is at fault.

    If you can find an Intel or Mediatek modem that requires this, then I would be convinced. However, from what I see, this issue has nothing to do with Freedom apart from being stuck in the middle of two giant vendors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zivan56 View Post
    ...
    However, from what I see, this issue has nothing to do with Freedom apart from being stuck in the middle of two giant vendors.
    Thanks zivan, for shedding some facts on the matter.
    And for the link to your Moto G5 Plus firmware fix. And your expertise!

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    I agree with zivan as well. We'll find out for sure who is to blame once Bell/Telus deploy B66 LTE on Huawei RAN.
    Want to learn more about how LTE works?
    https://productioncommunity.publicmo...ls/td-p/130581

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    Question for Zivan56:
    Is it every new phone with Band 66 capabilities that has this issue?
    That is, it is inherent in the Band 66 firmware for Qualcomm?

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    In the stock Qualcomm configuration, they would all have the issue. I am not sure if Qualcomm has added the configuration for Freedom on the default config, but I have not seen it yet on devices that are not specifically sold by Freedom. I don't forsee Qualcomm pre-loading a list of PLMNs that must support UMTS -> LTE B66 onto the stock image, so it sounds like every phone will have to be customized.

    Likewise, some phones have the configuration required (like the Moto Z2 Play for Verizon), but the mechanism to load any Canadian configuration dealing with the issue is most likely missing. The Moto G5 Plus also has this issue, it actually loads T-Mobile USA configuration when a Freedom SIM is inserted vs. the Canadian retail config.

    It seems rather strange that there is a specific config for UMTS dealing with B66 CSFB, as I haven't seen it for any other UMTS -> LTE B(1..44) combinations. This leads me to believe that perhaps a large B66 carrier either asked for this (T-Mobile?), or this is some workaround put in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zivan56 View Post
    The modification is not required by Freedom.

    The required configuration is due to the way Qualcomm has set up B66. Freedom did not ask Qualcomm to put in this arbitrary EFS item to make it work on their network.
    If anything is missing, its signalling from Nokia to force the device from UMTS B4 to LTE B66, although that should not be required due to a proper SIB19. So it is unclear who is at fault.

    If you can find an Intel or Mediatek modem that requires this, then I would be convinced. However, from what I see, this issue has nothing to do with Freedom apart from being stuck in the middle of two giant vendors.
    I have the SM-G955FD with the Exynos and am experiencing the same issues.
    Last edited by AznProto; 07-18-2017 at 11:50 AM.

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