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Thread: Why Sprint & TMobile Need to Merge

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by themanhimself View Post
    How much high band does TMobile have now?


    Name:  T-Mobile and networks post auction.jpg
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    Plus, 200 MHz of high-band spectrum in the 28Ghz -39 GHz in a few major Metro areas they got from buying MetroPCS.

    Instead of buying Sprint... T-Mobile could just buy some 3.5 Ghz CBRS spectrum in the next FCC auction... The 3.5 Ghz - 4.0 Ghz is the spectrum that T-Mobile Neville Ray wants for rolling out 5G technology.

    CBRS Auction Plans Adopted by FCC of sharing 3.5 Ghz spectrum between Networks.
    Last edited by shilohcane; 07-20-2017 at 08:03 PM.

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    T-Mobile is in pretty good shape. I like Neville's plan so hopefully that comes into fruition

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    I was watching T-Mobile's quarterly earnings call. Their CTO, Neville Ray, talked about 5G and the use of 600 MHz to provide 5G. He said that T-Mobile was going to be deploying 5 GHz on their small cells and was looking very hard at 3.5 GHz. He hinted that 40 MHz of 2.5 GHz would be nice to have but they were being very circumspect about what was said specifically re Sprint and someone may have kicked him under the table before he said too much.
    They won't be deploying any 5G at 600mhz because 600mhz doesn't have the capacity to support 5G and the 5G standards won't include low band spectrum. So as I said they won't be able to call it 5G. It's funny because Tmobile is saying that there is no standard yet so neither AT&T nor Verizon is testing 5G - when in the long run they are the ones who won't have 5G standards wise. Sprint's 2.5ghz may not even be included in that standard. It's a lot lower than spectrum that's being tested now.

    It'll be really funny to see LeGere boasting about his low speed 5G.

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/2/15...0-mhz-spectrum

    "Even T-Mobile’s fresh 600 MHz swath running with 5G technologies still likely won’t be as fast as 5G up in the higher bandwidth millimeter wave range."

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    To me it appears tmobile is getting two birds with one stone. Expanding coverage to rural spots while at the same time getting things ready for 5g. I think in time they will have to get more higher band spectrum.

    I think the 600 will be a starting point to get broad coverage out there and will also get 5g at least rolling. They can and most likely will add higher band stuff in populated areas kind of like hotspots etc. More capacity and less range while their 600 gives more range and less capacity. T-Mobile desperately needs range to cover in spots they never have before and thats what they are doing. I think their speeds in 600 should be faster than something like lte-a but I could be wrong. Wasn't LTE a claimed to be 50% faster in real world use?

    Either way I think they will use 600 to get it out there and then add the higher band stuff for capacity and higher speeds so no way they will use just 600 for 5g. It's just a starting point I would think and one band won't define 5g in total everywhere
    Last edited by themanhimself; 07-21-2017 at 05:28 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Name:  T-Mobile and networks post auction.jpg
Views: 197
Size:  41.2 KB

    Plus, 200 MHz of high-band spectrum in the 28Ghz -39 GHz in a few major Metro areas they got from buying MetroPCS.

    Instead of buying Sprint... T-Mobile could just buy some 3.5 Ghz CBRS spectrum in the next FCC auction... The 3.5 Ghz - 4.0 Ghz is the spectrum that T-Mobile Neville Ray wants for rolling out 5G technology.

    CBRS Auction Plans Adopted by FCC of sharing 3.5 Ghz spectrum between Networks.
    That's very little high band spectrum that they actually own, New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Las Vegas. I can see their ads now "We have 5G in four cities!".

    Won't CBRS spectrum be relegated to indoor use and very low power outdoor use? Plus most of it will be shared use from what I'm reading and like Sprints 2.5ghz it's still very low frequency in comparison to millimeter wave spectrum like Tmobile has in 4 cities and AT&T and Verizon have nationwide.

    http://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/at-...illimeter-wave

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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    They won't be deploying any 5G at 600mhz because 600mhz doesn't have the capacity to support 5G and the 5G standards won't include low band spectrum. So as I said they won't be able to call it 5G. It's funny because Tmobile is saying that there is no standard yet so neither AT&T nor Verizon is testing 5G - when in the long run they are the ones who won't have 5G standards wise. Sprint's 2.5ghz may not even be included in that standard. It's a lot lower than spectrum that's being tested now.

    It'll be really funny to see LeGere boasting about his low speed 5G.

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/2/15...0-mhz-spectrum

    "Even T-Mobile’s fresh 600 MHz swath running with 5G technologies still likely won’t be as fast as 5G up in the higher bandwidth millimeter wave range."
    That isn't correct. All spectrum provides almost identical carrying capacity. Bandwidth capacity of spectrum is determined by block size not by the spectrum's frequencies. Low band and high band of the same Mhz block size has the same ability for data capacity. Today 4G LTE is on all spectrum cell bands and 5G won't be any different due to spectrum's frequencies. The reason for all the talk about mmWave spectrum like 28Ghz and 38Ghz for 5G is since it has a shorter range than 600 Mhz, that has less customers being serviced by a single cell unit. The higher bands can have multi-cell towers bandwidth can have more cell units that don't interfere with each other in the same physical area as just one 600 Mhz cell unit.

    T-Mobile also has a advantage with the new 600 Mhz since there are no customer Legacy issues on their network with new blocks that will be deployed over time into late 2020 as the TV stations vacate the spectrum. 3GPP is working on the 5G standard but T-Mobile isn't expecting to deploy 5G until it is approved By 3GPP. T-Mobile's CTO Neville Ray said 5G roll out will be in late 2019 or 2020. 4G LTE isn't going away when 5G is approved since it will take several years for customers to get phones that support 5G. So only some of T-Mobile's 600 Mhz blocks will use 5G in late 2019 or 2020. T-Mobile said this week the first 600 Mhz cell towers will be deployed next month. 3GPP on Track for 5G.
    Last edited by shilohcane; 07-21-2017 at 12:45 PM.

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    I think they will use multiple resources. I kind of view it similar to how vz used 700 for a coverage backbone and also added to it. TMobile will do similar. When tmobile mentions using 600 for 5g they don't mean just that

    600 is just a start but a big one at that

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by themanhimself View Post
    I think they will use multiple resources. I kind of view it similar to how vz used 700 for a coverage backbone and also added to it. TMobile will do similar. When tmobile mentions using 600 for 5g they don't mean just that

    600 is just a start but a big one at that
    Of course T-Mobile is going to have the majority of their 600 Mhz on 4G LTE, just like their lower 700 Mhz band 12. 4G LTE isn't going to be sunset anytime soon if you see that 2G is still hanging on. It will take several years for customer to get 5G phones. When 5G is approved by the FCC then T-Mobile is going to deploy some 5G blocks in band 71 to make a nation wide 5G network.

    The mmWave spectrum like the 28Ghz and 38Ghz has tons of signal absorption and blockage issues to over come.

    Millimeter waves: How we got here, the physical challenges, and 5G opportunities

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    I like tmobile's plan. Them going for that much 600 is really opening people's eyes that TMobile is/or will be a viable option and for some it will be the first time ever.

    Good things to come either way. When I lived in Florida TMobile seemed to really be getting good in a lot of spots. Now in va/nc area it's definitely getting better and better

    As for merging with Sprint, the high band spectrum would be nice but not all that debt

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    ...The reason for all the talk about mmWave spectrum like 28Ghz and 38Ghz for 5G is since it has a shorter range than 600 Mhz, that has less customers being serviced by a single cell unit. The higher bands can have multi-cell towers bandwidth can have more cell units that don't interfere with each other in the same physical area as just one 600 Mhz cell unit....
    Combine that with the fact that large blocks of spectrum are not available in low-bands. That's what all the Radio, TV, public service, government, commercial, and unlicensed radios use. It is pretty much all in use, including the cell bands.

    The Nyquist data carrying capacity of a channel is two times the frequency*. e.g., a 10 MHz wide band can carry a maximum of 20 Mbps. The gigabit speeds being touted for 5G would require a 500 MHz wide channel*. 28-38 GHz spectrum is where that bandwidth is available. Consider that the FM broadcast band is only 20 MHz wide.

    In addition to the shorter range of 28Ghz and 38Ghz, it also doesn't penetrate things denser than air very well at all. Attenuation by common building materials is on the order of 30 dB. We are not going to get 28Ghz and 38Ghz 5G in our buildings unless it is equipped with an outdoor to indoor repeater with an antenna outside.

    5G is mostly marketing hype at this point. It will play a role in new niches for mobile data, but it is not about super fast data to the phone at our desks.

    *There are techniques to get faster than Nyquist data rates. MIMO is one. We are dealing with physics, not magic here. None of them are likely to get 10 or 100 times the data through a channel.

  11. #26
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    A Tmo/Sprint merger would benefit Tmo by boosting their subscriber base and they would get SOME useful spectrum. But, I think it's too costly and not worth it. Even if the merger happened without an exchange of cash, Tmo would be assuming a huge amount of debt. It's just not worth it.

    I don't see a TMO/Sprint merger happening. I think DISH would be a better choice.

    Sent from my Z981 using HoFo mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by cellphone-guy View Post
    A Tmo/Sprint merger would benefit Tmo by boosting their subscriber base and they would get SOME useful spectrum. But, I think it's too costly and not worth it.......
    Right now, whomever Sprint merges with would also be picking up a bunch of customers with plans that range from $32/month to free for the next 12 months. This might be viewed as more of a liability than an asset. Not too long ago, T-Mobile effectively raised their rates*, which served the dual purposes of moderating their run-away growth and increasing cash flow pay for needed upgrades and expansion. They may feel they have all the organic growth they can handle and don't need the challenge of integrating Sprint's network, plans and customers.

    *Wrapping it up with a bow and selling it as an "Uncarrier" move, calling it T-Mobile ONE.
    Donald Newcomb

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    >.....From an end-user's perspective, it is better if Sprint can remain independent, if only for the possibility for future freebies and cheap deals like the present ones. Were the Big 4 to be consolidated into the Big 3, safe to say that there'll be fewer bargains forthcoming.
    I fully agree with this statement. Having 4 national carriers absolutely assures cut-throat competition. With two. well we all know how duopolies work. Three's a maybe for any real competition. This is why I would like to see Sprint survive and do well.

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    I don't want my T-Mobile service to turn into sprint quality, because that would suck. IMHO.

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    Agreeing with the last four posts. I'm against the merger as Sprint has too much debt and as @DRNewcomb pointed out, those cheap/free plans don't help. If Sprint wants to partner with Charter or Dish or whoever, then so be it. I'm not a fan of Sprint but some people love them. Competition is great. I'd hate to see us end up choosing between two carriers. Just like satellite TV has become two choices, DirecTV or Dish. Back in the good old days, you could have a 10' dish in your yard and choose between 8-10 re-sellers on what channels you wanted to pay for. Sure miss those days...

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