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Thread: Verizon sending letters to LTE in Rural America users concerning termination (letter

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinkk2005 View Post
    This is not Verizon protecting the local carrier, itís about Verizon protecting themselves. Verizon, and Iíve explained this many times before but nobody seems to believe me, DOES pay local carriers for roaming. Verizon is losing money on this. If Verizon cared about the local carrier before this, this is what they wouldíve done. But it took people being on unlimited and fat roaming checks combined with them already being cautious due to increasing competition that got them to look into this matter, in my opinion. I think Verizon shouldíve thought this through by making sure they had throttling mechanisms in place before allowing people with our billing address to sign up for the plan.
    I agree, Verizon was wrong in letting people with addresses IN their partner's service area sign up for service from Verizon instead of the local partner. I can understand someone in the local area wanting to sign up with Verizon instead of Bluegrass, but Verizon should not have allowed that to happen.

    Verizon could be paying Bluegrass some sort of roaming fees, and it very well could be that some money changes hands from Bluegrass back to Verizon as well as a fee to participate in the LTEiRA program. I don't think we know what the exact terms are in the LTEiRA program contract, I don't think they have ever been publicly stated. Yes, Verizon does pay some local carriers their standard roaming fees outside of the LTEiRA program, but do we know that both sides of an LTEiRA contract pay roaming fees to each other?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwtmd View Post
    Neither are counted as roaming. Verizon has no official domestic roaming limits at all. This is the first I've heard of Verizon cutting anyone off for excessive domestic roaming.
    Right, I don't think this issue has anything to do with the amount of data these people are using, or anything to do with excessive data use since the letter doesn't address that subject at all. The letter states that Verizon has noticed these customers are using a "significant amount of data while roaming", which because their service address is within the Bluegrass service area, is a violation of Verizon's policy of not signing up customers where they do not provide service natively. Verizon was wrong to sign them up and is comparing notes with Bluegrass as to who is using data where, and have found this error.

    If I had received this letter, I would have switched my service to Bluegrass and have been done with it. You can't be a direct Verizon customer in a non-Verizon service area. It's quite simple. Why they signed these people up, I have no clue, they need to take that up with Verizon and get some answers.

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    Verizon Wireless employees are also to blame for letting customers in these areas sign up.

    Itís not the billing address that determines if youíre in a local carrierís service area, itís the service address. This address also determines your tax rate and can be different from your billing address. You can change this address online.

    Verizon Wireless employees at stores near these LTEiRA carriers coverage areas got wise to this and just changed the service address when the customer signed up. Any address in native Verizon coverage could be used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggore View Post
    ..... The thing Verizon did wrong was to sell them service in the first place if their place of residence is in the Bluegrass service area. Bluegrass would not have sold these people service if they live outside their service area, so the same applies to Verizon.
    If someone gives a Nashville address and asks for a Nashville number (for example) how was Verizon to know, other than traffic analysis, that they actually live in Bowling Green? I wonder what impact this may have on national business accounts where a salesman might just be assigned a territory that's mostly a LTEiRA partner's?
    Donald Newcomb

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew110 View Post
    Verizon Wireless employees are also to blame for letting customers in these areas sign up.

    Itís not the billing address that determines if youíre in a local carrierís service area, itís the service address. This address also determines your tax rate and can be different from your billing address. You can change this address online.


    Verizon Wireless employees at stores near these LTEiRA carriers coverage areas got wise to this and just changed the service address when the customer signed up. Any address in native Verizon coverage could be used.
    My service and billing address are the same. Right in the middle of the Bluegrass Cellular coverage area. If I had to lie or someone else lie for me about my service address I wouldn't activate service. Your service address can be in the LTEiRA coverage area you just can't have a cell number from the area. My number is from Henderson, KY.

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    Verizon sending letters to LTE in Rural America users concerning termination (letter

    Quote Originally Posted by EricB294 View Post
    My service and billing address are the same. Right in the middle of the Bluegrass Cellular coverage area. If I had to lie or someone else lie for me about my service address I wouldn't activate service. Your service address can be in the LTEiRA coverage area you just can't have a cell number from the area. My number is from Henderson, KY.
    For my zip code it says service isnít available in my area when I try to sign up on a new account. Your zip code must be pretty close to native Verizon coverage.

    Edit: saw you live right in the middle of Bluegrass. Thatís definitely weird and Verizon is to blame for sure.

    Are you sure they didnít use a different address when you signed up and then changed it after service was set up? After the line is active you can change the service address. Itís all about when you activate service.

    Like I said the store rep probably did it without you knowing. They just want the sale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggore View Post
    The thing Verizon did wrong was to sell them service in the first place if their place of residence is in the Bluegrass service area. Bluegrass would not have sold these people service if they live outside their service area, so the same applies to Verizon.
    Even if Verizon or AW/Bluegrass did their due diligence to prevent online or in-person sign ups from addresses not located in the service area, people can still sign up using an address from another service, be on multiple line plan or simply be customers who originally signed up from different service and relocated to a service area with a roaming partner. Verizon can't be faulted if they provided service based on information provided by the customer or if the individual already had the Verizon Wireless line.

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    The other thing I just thought about is these people most likely wonít be able to port to the local carrier with the phone number they have. I know I was unable to port my old phone number to Verizon that was from an LRA area.

    Pretty sure these people will have to switch to one of the other three if they wanna keep their number.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew110 View Post
    For my zip code it says service isnít available in my area when I try to sign up on a new account. Your zip code must be pretty close to native Verizon coverage.

    Edit: saw you live right in the middle of Bluegrass. Thatís definitely weird and Verizon is to blame for sure.

    Are you sure they didnít use a different address when you signed up and then changed it after service was set up? After the line is active you can change the service address. Itís all about when you activate service.

    Like I said the store rep probably did it without you knowing. They just want the sale.
    I suppose it's possible they could have done it without my knowledge. I activated service at a VZW corporate store in Huntsville, AL and had no problems until they tried to port my Bluegrass number. I even told them before they tried to port the number that it wouldn't work. To get a number they had to enter a zip code out of the Bluegrass coverage area.

    The rep had no idea who Bluegrass Cellular was so it's not like they had experience doing this. After I explained to them that Bluegrass was a regional carrier in KY one of the reps said "we have a regional carrier like that here in Huntsville, it's called Cricket" haha.

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    Verizon sending letters to LTE in Rural America users concerning termination ...

    Some of you are forgetting that Verizon never even differentiated between native and LRA partner LTE in their maps or even on the devices alpha tag. People legitimately could've been signing up in droves never knowing they were actually roaming, and Verizon clearly wanted it that way or else they'd have made it clear what was partner coverage and what wasn't. I'd go so far as to assume even employees signing people up weren't aware that these aren't native coverage areas. Nobody can really use the excuse that they shouldn't have been allowed to sign up with a service address in a roaming area when it was never considered roaming in the first place by anything but maybe tech support and engineering.

    Nobody can blame anyone but Verizon for this one, not the employees signing up new customers, and not the customers themselves.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by i0wnj00 View Post
    Even if Verizon or AW/Bluegrass did their due diligence to prevent online or in-person sign ups from addresses not located in the service area, people can still sign up using an address from another service, be on multiple line plan or simply be customers who originally signed up from different service and relocated to a service area with a roaming partner. Verizon can't be faulted if they provided service based on information provided by the customer or if the individual already had the Verizon Wireless line.
    Verizon has figured out this problem by noting where these people are USING their phones, with the vast majority of their usage being on the partner system and not on native Verizon. The local partner doesn't want Verizon coming in and selling monthly service over the top of their system because Verizon doesn't technically HAVE a system in that area, and that makes perfect sense. And if these people moved into the local area, then they should switch to the local provider and Verizon is correct in making them do so. Service might even be cheaper on the local carrier.

    I have a sense that the local carriers in the LTEiRA program have started to cry foul on Verizon letting people in their service areas sign up for service, so Verizon has come up with a method of noting where their customers are using the majority of their data and are now using this to police themselves a bit, and that's good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CavanalClimber View Post
    Verizon has figured out this problem by noting where these people are USING their phones, with the vast majority of their usage being on the partner system and not on native Verizon. The local partner doesn't want Verizon coming in and selling monthly service over the top of their system because Verizon doesn't technically HAVE a system in that area, and that makes perfect sense. And if these people moved into the local area, then they should switch to the local provider and Verizon is correct in making them do so. Service might even be cheaper on the local carrier.

    I have a sense that the local carriers in the LTEiRA program have started to cry foul on Verizon letting people in their service areas sign up for service, so Verizon has come up with a method of noting where their customers are using the majority of their data and are now using this to police themselves a bit, and that's good.
    Local carriers I know arenít crying foul. They make more from Verizon customers (per person) than their own customers. They literally have no risk involved. No billing or bad debt problems. Just a guaranteed fat check from Verizon.

    Local carrier is not cheaper either. No unlimited option, $40 per line access if you BYOD instead of 20, no WiFi Calling, and no VoLTE. If you travel internationally, forget it.
    Current Device: Black iPhone 7 Plus
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    Quote Originally Posted by GusHerb94 View Post
    Some of you are forgetting that Verizon never even differentiated between native and LRA partner LTE in their maps or even on the devices alpha tag. People legitimately could've been signing up in droves never knowing they were actually roaming, and Verizon clearly wanted it that way or else they'd have made it clear what was partner coverage and what wasn't. I'd go so far as to assume even employees signing people up weren't aware that these aren't native coverage areas. Nobody can really use the excuse that they shouldn't have been allowed to sign up with a service address in a roaming area when it was never considered roaming in the first place by anything but maybe tech support and engineering.

    Nobody can blame anyone but Verizon for this one, not the employees signing up new customers, and not the customers themselves.
    That's a great point. Seems like they want people to think their coverage is everywhere unless that "everywhere" means they have to pay another carrier who is actually providing the coverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CavanalClimber View Post
    Right, I don't think this issue has anything to do with the amount of data these people are using, or anything to do with excessive data use since the letter doesn't address that subject at all. The letter states that Verizon has noticed these customers are using a "significant amount of data while roaming", which because their service address is within the Bluegrass service area, is a violation of Verizon's policy of not signing up customers where they do not provide service natively. Verizon was wrong to sign them up and is comparing notes with Bluegrass as to who is using data where, and have found this error.

    If I had received this letter, I would have switched my service to Bluegrass and have been done with it. You can't be a direct Verizon customer in a non-Verizon service area. It's quite simple. Why they signed these people up, I have no clue, they need to take that up with Verizon and get some answers.
    This policy is clearly new is my point, since Verizon has previously had no domestic roaming limits at all. I know several people who have been living in West Virginia permanently roaming on US Cellular for years with no issues.

    What does Verizon deem "significant"? One month? 6 months? A year? They need to specify that instead of randomly disconnecting people.

    Quote Originally Posted by GusHerb94 View Post
    Some of you are forgetting that Verizon never even differentiated between native and LRA partner LTE in their maps or even on the devices alpha tag. People legitimately could've been signing up in droves never knowing they were actually roaming, and Verizon clearly wanted it that way or else they'd have made it clear what was partner coverage and what wasn't. I'd go so far as to assume even employees signing people up weren't aware that these aren't native coverage areas. Nobody can really use the excuse that they shouldn't have been allowed to sign up with a service address in a roaming area when it was never considered roaming in the first place by anything but maybe tech support and engineering.

    Nobody can blame anyone but Verizon for this one, not the employees signing up new customers, and not the customers themselves.
    Exactly. How are customers supposed to know that they're roaming, or living in a roaming area? Verizon changed devices to show "Verizon LTE", even when roaming, and the coverage map now shows "Verizon LTE" for Extended areas. It's nearly impossible to determine that you're using an Extended LTE network with Verizon.

    If Verizon wants to advertise that Extended areas are treated the same as native Verizon areas, they need to actually treat them that way, not suddenly start cutting customers off for roaming too much. Imagine how confused those customers must be. Their phones say "Verizon LTE" and the coverage map says "Verizon LTE". No indication at all that they're roaming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwtmd View Post
    This policy is clearly new is my point, since Verizon has previously had no domestic roaming limits at all. I know several people who have been living in West Virginia permanently roaming on US Cellular for years with no
    US Cellular is probably giving them a much better roaming rate then some of these other carriers.
    Hartford, CT Area

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