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Thread: Verizon sending letters to LTE in Rural America users concerning termination (letter

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinkk2005 View Post
    I never said it was a one way thing. Appalachian has a 50/50 roaming policy to protect itself and most people from this area who leave, do so for work and never come back this switching carriers. So I would assume this is a much larger issue for Verizon than it is for Appalachian. People here use Verizon for aforementioned reasons instead of the local carrier.
    No, you didnt say it, but by omission you left the impression that there isn't any money being paid by the local carrier to Verizon, only the other direction. And we dont really know definitively if any money, or how much, is gong either way under this program, only speculation as it relates to normal roaming agreements with non-LTEiRA carriers. I want to be fair to both Verizon and the local carrier here.

    I have no idea what sort of payments are passing between these partners. What I do know is that Verizon does not have a system in these partner areas, so they should not be selling service to people who live in those areas according to the program agreement, nor should people in those areas try to sign up for service from Verizon, either by using their real address, or a fake one, or one outside the area somewhere where Verizon does directly provide service. People may indeed have a problem with the local carrier for some reason, but the fact still remains that you can't sign up with a carrier who does not servce your area under the provisions of the program. Verizon has violated that provision in some instances.
    Last edited by CavanalClimber; 08-02-2017 at 06:32 AM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by CavanalClimber View Post
    No, you didnt say it, but by omission you left the impression that there isn't any money being paid by the local carrier to Verizon, only the other direction. And we dont really know definitively if any money, or how much, is gong either way under this program, only speculation as it relates to normal roaming agreements with non-LTEiRA carriers. I want to be fair tO both Verizon and the local carrier here.

    I have no idea what sort of payments are passing between these partners. What I do know is that Verizon does not have a system in these partner areas, so they shoild not be selling service to people who live in those areas accords ng to the program agreement, nor should people in those areas try to sign up for service from Verizon, either by using their real address or a fake one or one outside the area somewhere where Verizon does directly provide service. People may indeed have a problem with the local carrier for some reason, but the fact still remains that you can't sign up with a carrier who does not servce your area under the provisions of the program. Verizon has violated that provision in some instances.
    The fact is people have been doing this for more than a decade. Nothing will stop it from happening. Customers and salesman don’t care if they “should” do it or not.

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    Verizon is even bad towards other people's customers
    http://bgr.com/2017/08/01/charter-vs...band-provider/

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyjones View Post
    Verizon is even bad towards other people's customers
    http://bgr.com/2017/08/01/charter-vs...band-provider/
    That's a totally different operating company. Wireline doesn't really have much to do with their wireless operations.

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    I had forgotten about this but before I switched from Bluegrass Cellular to the Verizon UDP, I called customer service and asked how this would work with me living in an extended network like Bluegrass. I asked if there would be network management issues and they said "no, it will work just like it is advertised." I also asked if it mattered that I lived in an extended coverage area and was told no.

    If Verizon can't throttle hotspot usage or deprioritize data while roaming on Bluegrass, I wonder if a Bluegrass UDP can be throttled or managed while roaming on Verizon?

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsoul1989 View Post
    i left Verizon in 2013 for that very reason. i can confirm that they still do have only Extended 1X. i live in one of USCC's markets and about 7 miles from Verizon's native service. both AT&T and Sprint has overbuilt them in SE WV and T-Mobile is working on it as well. they will have to allow Extended LTE in a couple years when Verizon shuts down the 2G and 3G network.

    Sent from my LG-V930 using HoFo mobile app
    So did I. I lived in West Virginia for 6 months with Verizon, then switched to AT&T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EricB294 View Post
    If Verizon can't throttle hotspot usage or deprioritize data while roaming on Bluegrass, I wonder if a Bluegrass UDP can be throttled or managed while roaming on Verizon?
    It shouldn't be. Your Bluegrass UDP should work normally while in native Verizon territory because under the LTE in Rural America program, service is same-as-native when roaming either way. That said, Verizon technically should not have sold you service if you live where they do not have a native system and all your usage will occur while you are using a system that you are not helping to pay for with monthly fees. Bluegrass is not receiving money from you to support their infrastructure needs, while Verizon is getting free money from you because you aren't using their system at all. That's what this provision of not selling in each other's service areas is all about.

    To use an extreme example, what if everyone in Bluegrass's service area switched to Verizon? Bluegrass would no longer be receiving any revenue to operate their system other than whatever roaming fees they are receiving from Verizon, and I doubt very much that they would be enough to fund day to day operations, adding back-haul, upgrading and building new sites and densification, etc. Despite these companies being partners in a program, they are still separate entities with separate infrastructures, so the LTEiRA program was designed to protect those individual companies.

    Back in 2012 when the LTEiRA program first came into being, there were those who swore that Verizon was going to immediately snap up all these participating companies, but none of that has happened, Verizon has not bought out a single participant. Maybe if they allow enough people who live in the partner service areas to become direct Verizon customers so that it begins to starve the partners of revenue and customers, that's when they will begin to acquire them. I believe that is a tad nefarious, but who knows?

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    Here are more details for those wondering:

    Customers that use significant data while roaming on another wireless service provider's network will receive a disconnect letter.

    Things To Know.
    1.You are roaming on another wireless carrier network.
    Only Verizon customers who continually use a significant amount of data while roaming off of the Verizon network are being advised that their service will be disconnected. The other wireless service provider charges Verizon for that data at a rate well in excess of what you pay.


    2.You need to take action prior tot he disconnect date.
    You are advised to explore other wireless options and switch to another provider before 8/29/17. If you wait until your service is disconnected, you will no longer be able to transfer your phone number to a different provider.


    3.You can disregard future Device Payment Plan payments.
    You are not required to make any future Device Payment Plan payments and Verizon will waive the outstanding balance within 2-3 billing cycles.


    4.Your ETF is waived.
    You can port out your other lines on your account even if you’re in contract. ETF fees are waived if you want to take your other lines to another provider.

    Other Key Points:
    •How many customers are impacted?
    Approximately 350 consumer accounts and 800 lines are impacted.


    •What network are these customers roaming on?
    Appalachian Wireless.


    And then another document with slightly different wording:


    Details

    •Only lines that are out of contract with significant LRA data usage are being targeted.
    •Customers can port out other lines on their account even if they’re in contract. Early Termination Fees are waived if the customer wants to take their other lines with them to another provider.
    •Customers on DPP are not required to make any further payments and Verizon will waive the outstanding balance. Balances will be waived within 2-3 bill cycles.
    •Calls from the impacted customers will be handled by a specific team. They will not route to general Customer Service.


    Restrictions


    Only 350 consumer accounts and 800 lines are impacted.


    Direct Mailer


    Verizon is sending a direct mailer to a small group of customers who are out of contract and primarily use mobile data on the LRA partner networks notifying them that we will no longer provide service to them after 8/29/17.
    •Customers are advised to explore their wireless options and switch to another provider before 8/29/17.
    •Customer accounts are set to suspend on 8/29/17 and then disconnected on 9/5/17
    •After service is disconnected on 9/5/17, customers will no longer be able to transfer their phone number to a different provider.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by vzwinagent View Post
    Here are more details for those wondering:

    Customers that use significant data while roaming on another wireless service provider's network will receive a disconnect letter.

    Things To Know.
    1.You are roaming on another wireless carrier network.
    Only Verizon customers who continually use a significant amount of data while roaming off of the Verizon network are being advised that their service will be disconnected. The other wireless service provider charges Verizon for that data at a rate well in excess of what you pay.


    2.You need to take action prior tot he disconnect date.
    You are advised to explore other wireless options and switch to another provider before 8/29/17. If you wait until your service is disconnected, you will no longer be able to transfer your phone number to a different provider.


    3.You can disregard future Device Payment Plan payments.
    You are not required to make any future Device Payment Plan payments and Verizon will waive the outstanding balance within 2-3 billing cycles.


    4.Your ETF is waived.
    You can port out your other lines on your account even if you’re in contract. ETF fees are waived if you want to take your other lines to another provider.

    Other Key Points:
    •How many customers are impacted?
    Approximately 350 consumer accounts and 800 lines are impacted.


    •What network are these customers roaming on?
    Appalachian Wireless.


    And then another document with slightly different wording:


    Details

    •Only lines that are out of contract with significant LRA data usage are being targeted.
    •Customers can port out other lines on their account even if they’re in contract. Early Termination Fees are waived if the customer wants to take their other lines with them to another provider.
    •Customers on DPP are not required to make any further payments and Verizon will waive the outstanding balance. Balances will be waived within 2-3 bill cycles.
    •Calls from the impacted customers will be handled by a specific team. They will not route to general Customer Service.


    Restrictions


    Only 350 consumer accounts and 800 lines are impacted.


    Direct Mailer


    Verizon is sending a direct mailer to a small group of customers who are out of contract and primarily use mobile data on the LRA partner networks notifying them that we will no longer provide service to them after 8/29/17.
    •Customers are advised to explore their wireless options and switch to another provider before 8/29/17.
    •Customer accounts are set to suspend on 8/29/17 and then disconnected on 9/5/17
    •After service is disconnected on 9/5/17, customers will no longer be able to transfer their phone number to a different provider.
    Even though this only impacts Appalachian Wireless, it's still Verizon's fault.

    Why are they punishing their customers? There was no easy way for these customers to know that they were roaming. The coverage map shows this area as "Verizon LTE" and phones display "Verizon LTE" even when roaming.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by vzwinagent View Post
    Here are more details for those wondering:

    Customers that use significant data while roaming on another wireless service provider's network will receive a disconnect letter.

    Things To Know.
    1.You are roaming on another wireless carrier network.
    Only Verizon customers who continually use a significant amount of data while roaming off of the Verizon network are being advised that their service will be disconnected. The other wireless service provider charges Verizon for that data at a rate well in excess of what you pay.


    2.You need to take action prior tot he disconnect date.
    You are advised to explore other wireless options and switch to another provider before 8/29/17. If you wait until your service is disconnected, you will no longer be able to transfer your phone number to a different provider.


    3.You can disregard future Device Payment Plan payments.
    You are not required to make any future Device Payment Plan payments and Verizon will waive the outstanding balance within 2-3 billing cycles.


    4.Your ETF is waived.
    You can port out your other lines on your account even if you’re in contract. ETF fees are waived if you want to take your other lines to another provider.

    Other Key Points:
    •How many customers are impacted?
    Approximately 350 consumer accounts and 800 lines are impacted.


    •What network are these customers roaming on?
    Appalachian Wireless.


    And then another document with slightly different wording:


    Details

    •Only lines that are out of contract with significant LRA data usage are being targeted.
    •Customers can port out other lines on their account even if they’re in contract. Early Termination Fees are waived if the customer wants to take their other lines with them to another provider.
    •Customers on DPP are not required to make any further payments and Verizon will waive the outstanding balance. Balances will be waived within 2-3 bill cycles.
    •Calls from the impacted customers will be handled by a specific team. They will not route to general Customer Service.


    Restrictions


    Only 350 consumer accounts and 800 lines are impacted.


    Direct Mailer


    Verizon is sending a direct mailer to a small group of customers who are out of contract and primarily use mobile data on the LRA partner networks notifying them that we will no longer provide service to them after 8/29/17.
    •Customers are advised to explore their wireless options and switch to another provider before 8/29/17.
    •Customer accounts are set to suspend on 8/29/17 and then disconnected on 9/5/17
    •After service is disconnected on 9/5/17, customers will no longer be able to transfer their phone number to a different provider.
    Again, why just Appalachian Wireless? Unlimited customers on other LRA carriers will surely be affected in the future.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwtmd View Post
    Even though this only impacts Appalachian Wireless, it's still Verizon's fault.

    Why are they punishing their customers? There was no easy way for these customers to know that they were roaming. The coverage map shows this area as "Verizon LTE" and phones display "Verizon LTE" even when roaming.
    This isn't about "fault." Verizon has the right to cancel service at any time:

    "We may change prices or any other term of your Service or this Agreement at any time, but we'll provide notice first"

    https://www.verizonwireless.com/lega...mer-agreement/

    Verizon has determined that it no longer wishes to service those 350 accounts. Perhaps they are unprofitable. Whether they knew they were roaming is irrelevant. Verizon is no longer interested in selling service to people who primarily use roaming data on Appalachian Wireless. That's their choice to make.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew110 View Post
    Again, why just Appalachian Wireless? Unlimited customers on other LRA carriers will surely be affected in the future.
    Sounds to me like Appalachian has raised prices Verizon pays or something. It seems pretty obvious Verizon does pay then when Verizon customers use their network. I'd say they've raised the fees through the roof.

  13. #58
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    I wonder what Appalachian wireless is charging Verizon per Gb? It's got to be pretty expensive for them to be disconnecting people and forgiving balances and contracts.
    Hartford, CT Area

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    Verizon has determined that it no longer wishes to service those 350 accounts. Perhaps they are unprofitable. Whether they knew they were roaming is irrelevant. Verizon is no longer interested in selling service to people who primarily use roaming data on Appalachian Wireless. That's their choice to make.
    It's about right and wrong. You're right. Verizon is free to do whatever they want. I didn't say otherwise. That doesn't mean what Verizon did was fair or made any sense.

    There was no way for these people to know that they were roaming, yet Verizon is punishing them for roaming too much. Verizon seems to be blaming these customers for not knowing better. Verizon deliberately removed the "Extended" tag from phones and the coverage map, since they used to treat Extended coverage the same as their native coverage.

    Quote Originally Posted by vzwinagent View Post
    Sounds to me like Appalachian has raised prices Verizon pays or something. It seems pretty obvious Verizon does pay then when Verizon customers use their network. I'd say they've raised the fees through the roof.
    Isn't Appalachian an LTEiRA partner? I thought the deal with that agreement was that Verizon gave the smaller carrier spectrum in exchange for an unlimited reciprocal roaming agreement. None of their other LTEiRA partners seem to have any limits.

  15. #60
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    I wonder how many of those 350 accounts were on grandfathered unlimited data plans? How many were using Verizon as their only source of internet at their homes?

    While mistakes can happen, Verizon as a company does not sell service in the areas where subscribers are being terminated. They do not own any prefixes in those telephone exchanges, and cannot assign or port a number local to those rate centers.

    I am thinking that some of those customers may have played the system, knowing that Verizon does not offer service there, or were using it as their home internet and got caught.

    Verizon is following their customer agreement and providing a notice of termination and waiving the ETF's/DPP's.

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