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Thread: Verizon sending letters to LTE in Rural America users concerning termination (letter

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwtmd View Post
    There was no way for these people to know that they were roaming
    I think these people knew very well that they were "roaming". They live in Appalachian's service area or faked an address within Appalachian's service area, yet signed up for Verizon service, not from Appalachian, for whatever reason. Maybe they were trying to game the system. Maybe there is a Verizon perk or service that Appalachian does not offer. Maybe they had a bad experience with Appalachian in the past. It doesn't really matter. They were wrong to sign up for Verizon service and Verizon was wrong to sell them service. Their data usage is all on Appalachian, not on native Verizon, which raised a red flag somewhere in Verizon. Their data usage would not be a problem at all if they were Appalachian customers. They could probably just drive to a native Verizon area once in a while, use their phone for some data, and never would have received this letter. There are lots of ways to cheat the system but they didn't get away with it using this one.

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    Verizon sending letters to LTE in Rural America users concerning termination (letter

    Quote Originally Posted by ggore View Post
    I think these people knew very well that they were "roaming". They live in Appalachian's service area or faked an address within Appalachian's service area, yet signed up for Verizon service, not from Appalachian, for whatever reason. Maybe they were trying to game the system. Maybe there is a Verizon perk or service that Appalachian does not offer. Maybe they had a bad experience with Appalachian in the past. It doesn't really matter. They were wrong to sign up for Verizon service and Verizon was wrong to sell them service. Their data usage is all on Appalachian, not on native Verizon, which raised a red flag somewhere in Verizon. Their data usage would not be a problem at all if they were Appalachian customers. They could probably just drive to a native Verizon area once in a while, use their phone for some data, and never would have received this letter. There are lots of ways to cheat the system but they didn't get away with it using this one.
    You act as if most people know all about the LRA program, roaming agreements, Extended Networks, etc., definitely not the case. And you really expect people to know having a Verizon account while living in an LRA area is "wrong?" That is nonsense. It has been happening for over a decade. Devices do not indicate “roaming” while in these areas. They have always indicated “Extended Network” when on CDMA. Totally different. With HD Voice enabled or data only devices, devices display “Verizon Wireless”. If it’s a newer account that has always had HD Voice enabled, how would the customer know? Maybe they think Verizon built out a network in the area if they knew it was an “Extended Network” at one time. Maybe they just moved to the area. They see “Verizon Wireless” and they think it’s Verizon’s network. I can’t blame them, very few people would know this isn’t the case. If I wasn’t on HoFo, I probably wouldn’t know either. Quit assuming most knew. That is BS.

    And as I said earlier, a sales person could have signed them up and changed their address without the customer knowing.

    This is definitely ALL Verizon’s fault. If they didn't want people living in LRA areas to have their service, they should have taken care of this problem YEARS ago.
    Last edited by andrew110; 08-03-2017 at 08:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggore View Post
    I think these people knew very well that they were "roaming". They live in Appalachian's service area or faked an address within Appalachian's service area, yet signed up for Verizon service, not from Appalachian, for whatever reason. Maybe they were trying to game the system. Maybe there is a Verizon perk or service that Appalachian does not offer. Maybe they had a bad experience with Appalachian in the past. It doesn't really matter. They were wrong to sign up for Verizon service and Verizon was wrong to sell them service. Their data usage is all on Appalachian, not on native Verizon, which raised a red flag somewhere in Verizon. Their data usage would not be a problem at all if they were Appalachian customers. They could probably just drive to a native Verizon area once in a while, use their phone for some data, and never would have received this letter. There are lots of ways to cheat the system but they didn't get away with it using this one.
    You are very right that people will game the system.
    There is also that fact that Verizon and other wireless sales people and agents, will sometimes even direct people HOW to game the system. Most are paid on commission and see only the upcoming commission check and not the long term health of the company. Their drive is make every sale possible. Some of the people who actually made the sales probably don't even work for Verizon and by the time enough use history had been built up to realize this is an unprofitable customer, the window to charge back the seller on their commission has passed.

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    Ok, I don't live in an LRA area but I will ask this. Why shouldn't customers in these areas be able to sign up with Verizon instead of the local carrier? The small carriers charge premium prices but they don't offer premium service such as HD Voice, VoWifi, BYOD, etc like Verizon does. A few LRA carriers may now offer some of these features, but I know Thumb Cellular in Michigan does not. I don't blame people for wanting to sign up with Verizon instead of the local carrier. It's really Verizons fault for agreeing to pay these fat checks out to smaller companies that allow usage of their infrastructure but use Verizon's spectrum. If the LRA carriers want to keep their customers happy then start upgrading! That's my 2 cents. The smaller LRA partners should be happy their customers can utilize Verizons nationwide service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggore View Post
    I think these people knew very well that they were "roaming". They live in Appalachian's service area or faked an address within Appalachian's service area, yet signed up for Verizon service, not from Appalachian, for whatever reason. Maybe they were trying to game the system. Maybe there is a Verizon perk or service that Appalachian does not offer. Maybe they had a bad experience with Appalachian in the past. It doesn't really matter. They were wrong to sign up for Verizon service and Verizon was wrong to sell them service. Their data usage is all on Appalachian, not on native Verizon, which raised a red flag somewhere in Verizon. Their data usage would not be a problem at all if they were Appalachian customers. They could probably just drive to a native Verizon area once in a while, use their phone for some data, and never would have received this letter. There are lots of ways to cheat the system but they didn't get away with it using this one.
    Where's your evidence that all of these people purposely misled Verizon and knowingly were roaming?

    How do you expect they would know they were roaming? The coverage map says "Verizon LTE", and so do their phones. Unless you enter an engineering mode on your phone and look up the MCC/MNC (which most people don't know how to do), there's no way to tell that you're roaming.

    I know a lot of people that signed up with Verizon in an area where they had native coverage, then moved to an Extended area later on. That's not them cheating the system. All they did was move. I know a lot of Verizon customers permanently roaming on US Cellular in West Virginia, and Verizon doesn't seem to care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwtmd View Post
    There was no way for these people to know that they were roaming, yet Verizon is punishing them for roaming too much. Verizon seems to be blaming these customers for not knowing better. Verizon deliberately removed the "Extended" tag from phones and the coverage map, since they used to treat Extended coverage the same as their native coverage.
    Well they know now. I'm not really sure what you're advocating they do differently. Send the customer a warning that if they keep roaming, they will be cut off in a month or two? The end result is still the same, these customers won't be allowed much data usage any longer even if Verizon sent the warning.

    Thus, the customers are better off looking for alternatives for their data needs.

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    Update:

    Verizon can now throttle safety mode in our appalachian wireless area. They couldn’t last month. A buddy just hit and he’s throttled to 128k. Wondering if Unlimited works 22 GB works now.
    Current Device: Black iPhone 7 Plus
    Carrier: AT&T

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    Quote Originally Posted by justinkk2005 View Post
    Update:

    Verizon can now throttle safety mode in our appalachian wireless area. They couldn’t last month. A buddy just hit and he’s throttled to 128k. Wondering if Unlimited works 22 GB works now.
    I doubt they'd be kicking 800 lines off if depri worked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwtmd View Post
    Where's your evidence that all of these people purposely misled Verizon and knowingly were roaming?

    How do you expect they would know they were roaming? The coverage map says "Verizon LTE", and so do their phones. Unless you enter an engineering mode on your phone and look up the MCC/MNC (which most people don't know how to do), there's no way to tell that you're roaming.

    I know a lot of people that signed up with Verizon in an area where they had native coverage, then moved to an Extended area later on. That's not them cheating the system. All they did was move. I know a lot of Verizon customers permanently roaming on US Cellular in West Virginia, and Verizon doesn't seem to care.
    It is my opinion that they know what they have been doing, that's all. If you live someplace and never see a Verizon retailer but only Appalachian, that's a pretty good indicator that you are not in a Verizon service area, since I don't believe any carrier puts stores or authorized dealers in a place that they don't have a system. Verizon has no stores or authorized retailers here in Pioneer Cellular's service area here, I do know that, nor does Pioneer have any stores in Oklahoma City where they have no system but Verizon does. Do you know of any carriers who put official retail outlets or authorized retailers in places they do not have a system? I was just at my local Wal Mart today and there was nothing with Verizon on it, because they do not have a system here. There were phones and materials for AT&T, Cricket, MetroPCS, T-Mobile, and Sprint. Nothing for Verizon or US Cellular because neither of them have a system here.

    If this was all an innocent misunderstanding, that's fine, I don't really care, but I have my doubts, and that is my opinion on the matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10mm View Post
    Ok, I don't live in an LRA area but I will ask this. Why shouldn't customers in these areas be able to sign up with Verizon instead of the local carrier? The small carriers charge premium prices but they don't offer premium service such as HD Voice, VoWifi, BYOD, etc like Verizon does. A few LRA carriers may now offer some of these features, but I know Thumb Cellular in Michigan does not. I don't blame people for wanting to sign up with Verizon instead of the local carrier. It's really Verizons fault for agreeing to pay these fat checks out to smaller companies that allow usage of their infrastructure but use Verizon's spectrum. If the LRA carriers want to keep their customers happy then start upgrading! That's my 2 cents. The smaller LRA partners should be happy their customers can utilize Verizons nationwide service.
    Those people in the Thumb Cellular service area won't get HD Voice in Thumb's service area by signing up with Verizon because Thumb doesn't offer it. But by signing up with Thumb they will be supporting the carrier who DID spend the money to build the system, install the backhaul or microwave, and upgrade all their sites to LTE so they could use Verizon's spectrum, because Verizon has no system there, never built one, never spent or risked a dime there like Thumb did, and doesn't plan to ever build one, thus protecting Thumb from over-building in the future. That's the whole premise of the LTE in Rural America program, and by theoretically not selling in Thumb's service area it protects Thumb's investment by requiring people to sign up with Thumb. They will still get access to all the advanced services in other parts of the country, in Verizon's service area and in LTEiRA partner service areas like here where Pioneer has HD Voice and has added some of Verizon's AWS spectrum to the mix for extra capacity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GusHerb94 View Post
    I doubt they'd be kicking 800 lines off if depri worked.
    Unless they were on grandfathered unlimited?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    Well they know now. I'm not really sure what you're advocating they do differently. Send the customer a warning that if they keep roaming, they will be cut off in a month or two? The end result is still the same, these customers won't be allowed much data usage any longer even if Verizon sent the warning.

    Thus, the customers are better off looking for alternatives for their data needs.
    Verizon shouldn't have pretended that Extended coverage was unlimited and treated the same as native coverage. Their coverage map pretended that, their alpha tag pretended that, and their employees told customers that because that's what they were told.

    If your phone said "Verizon LTE" and the coverage map said "Verizon LTE", wouldn't you be surprised if you got a letter in the mail saying you were being disconnected for roaming? Most people don't know about the LTEiRA program or about engineering modes on their phones. Regular average users would not know that they're roaming.

    It's exactly the same with AT&T. They make their phones display "AT&T" even when roaming, then punish customers by saying "you should've known you were roaming!".

    They're setting customers up to fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggore View Post
    It is my opinion that they know what they have been doing, that's all. If you live someplace and never see a Verizon retailer but only Appalachian, that's a pretty good indicator that you are not in a Verizon service area, since I don't believe any carrier puts stores or authorized dealers in a place that they don't have a system. Verizon has no stores or authorized retailers here in Pioneer Cellular's service area here, I do know that, nor does Pioneer have any stores in Oklahoma City where they have no system but Verizon does. Do you know of any carriers who put official retail outlets or authorized retailers in places they do not have a system? I was just at my local Wal Mart today and there was nothing with Verizon on it, because they do not have a system here. There were phones and materials for AT&T, Cricket, MetroPCS, T-Mobile, and Sprint. Nothing for Verizon or US Cellular because neither of them have a system here.

    If this was all an innocent misunderstanding, that's fine, I don't really care, but I have my doubts, and that is my opinion on the matter.
    So you're blaming hundreds of people for not paying attention to the stores in their area? I have no clue what carriers have stores in my area or where they are.

    If the phones said "Verizon LTE" and the coverage map says "Verizon LTE", it's perfectly reasonable to assume that Verizon has coverage there.

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    Our Walmart, directly in the middle of Appalachian’s area, sells Verizon prepaid cards. There’s also a Verizon reseller in Williamson, WV right on the river who proudly will sell to South Williamson, KY folk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justinkk2005 View Post
    Our Walmart, directly in the middle of Appalachian’s area, sells Verizon prepaid cards. There’s also a Verizon reseller in Williamson, WV right on the river who proudly will sell to South Williamson, KY folk.
    It was the same when I was in WV. The local stores were happily selling Verizon and Sprint prepaid CDMA devices that wouldn't work at all in that area, since the CDMA MVNOs don't roam. I saw people returning phones all the time there and swapping them out for AT&T phones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggore View Post
    But by signing up with Thumb they will be supporting the carrier who DID spend the money to build the system, install the backhaul or microwave, and upgrade all their sites to LTE so they could use Verizon's spectrum, because Verizon has no system there, never built one, never spent or risked a dime there like Thumb did, and doesn't plan to ever build one, thus protecting Thumb from over-building in the future.
    Actually, you help Thumb more by signing up for Verizon's UDP and using it on Thumb's network so they get those big fat roaming checks from Verizon.

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