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Thread: Update 2: Confirmed that iPhone 8/8+ and X works flawlessly on Freedom's Band 66 LTE (including 3G to LTE switches)

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver8666 View Post
    If Freedom is provisioning, that f------ s--- has to end. Quick. The release date is fast upon us.
    As I've said before, they are not provisioning. It's Qualcomm. I don't really understand why you guys seem to think they are trying to force you to buy a device from them. The profit to them is marginal, in some cases they actually pay for part of the phone. I get that they like being able to sign a 2 year term, as we all know most people are uninformed and don't know you can pay of your tab penalty free with freedom, but I doubt that's their priority right now. They want Big Three's customer base, and forcing customers to get a new phone would be less effective



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    Damn!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirtate View Post
    Freedom is the first carrier to roll out band 66. So they have the growing pains.

    I expect that as soon as VZW, ATT and T-Mo roll out their networks, any bugs in subscriber equipment will be worked out.

    Despite what some people seem to believe, Freedom didn't invent or manufacture band 66 RAN equipment.

    They bought it from a supplier (Nokia).

    The phone issues were patched with a bandaid from those suppliers. (I expect until they can agree on the specification of a band 66 handset)

    Once those American networks ramp up their band 66, the handset issues will be patched organically with a firmware update.

    Sent from my XT1563 using HoFo mobile app
    Freedom is not the first carrier to roll out Band 66. It has been running on T-Mo for over a year. Do you think Apple included B66 in the new phones because of the demands of Freedom? I personally don't think so.

    Do you think Nokia developed B66 because Freedom wanted it, or could it have been because of demand from the Big 3 US carriers?

    My concern with Freedom is their deviating from what is standard, or at least agreed upon by the bigger players. If and when the Big 3 carriers do come to an agreement on Band 66, will Freedom then change their network to work with the configuration of the Big 3? Look what happened with VoIP for Freedom. They rolled it out, but only a few phones that are sold by Freedom (most of them lower end) can use VoIP. Why did Freedom use a VoIP implementation that requires custom firmware, even though VoIP is built into Android 7, and iPhones? This is why for example, the Galaxy S8/S8+ can't use VoIP. If Freedom had designed their system around a standard VoIP implementation, any VoIP phone could be used without needing custom firmware. Yet, VoIP is super critical for Freedom, making up for a lot of the in building/basement coverage holes that is in their network.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkritsilas View Post
    Freedom is not the first carrier to roll out Band 66. It has been running on T-Mo for over a year. Do you think Apple included B66 in the new phones because of the demands of Freedom? I personally don't think so.

    Do you think Nokia developed B66 because Freedom wanted it, or could it have been because of demand from the Big 3 US carriers?

    My concern with Freedom is their deviating from what is standard, or at least agreed upon by the bigger players. If and when the Big 3 carriers do come to an agreement on Band 66, will Freedom then change their network to work with the configuration of the Big 3? Look what happened with VoIP for Freedom. They rolled it out, but only a few phones that are sold by Freedom (most of them lower end) can use VoIP. Why did Freedom use a VoIP implementation that requires custom firmware, even though VoIP is built into Android 7, and iPhones? This is why for example, the Galaxy S8/S8+ can't use VoIP. If Freedom had designed their system around a standard VoIP implementation, any VoIP phone could be used without needing custom firmware. Yet, VoIP is super critical for Freedom, making up for a lot of the in building/basement coverage holes that is in their network.
    Freedom had band 66 in August 2016.
    T mobile waited until December.

    http://www.fiercewireless.com/wirele...ear-ahead-at-t

    And my post mentioned the big 3 American carriers that pushed Apple to put band 66 on the new phones.


    If your BYOP phone isn't working quite right on T-Mobile's band 66, you aren't going to be as aware of it as you also have bands 2,5,4 and 7 to play with in the vast majority of locations.




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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by qag01 View Post
    As I've said before, they are not provisioning. It's Qualcomm. I don't really understand why you guys seem to think they are trying to force you to buy a device from them. The profit to them is marginal, in some cases they actually pay for part of the phone. I get that they like being able to sign a 2 year term, as we all know most people are uninformed and don't know you can pay of your tab penalty free with freedom, but I doubt that's their priority right now. They want Big Three's customer base, and forcing customers to get a new phone would be less effective



    Sent from my Z957 using HoFo mobile app
    I disagree. Completely. After the 22nd we'll definitely find out if this is the case. Freedom, whatever crap they are pulling off now, can't continue to do this after the 8 and 8 Plus get released. It has to end. If 1P5 users complained enough, on here that Band 66 is not working for them, unless they flashed the firmware in the modem to get it to work, that tells you that they are provisioning. BYOD has to work with the network. Period, including Band 66. They prefer their devices over another's and this **** has to stop on the 22nd. Full stop. I see it that way. Anyone else will as well. I feel inclined to actually get an 8 Plus and see if it will work on Band 66 with Freedom. If it doesn't, I'll complain to the Feds, and point out the 1P5 issues as well as non-branded devices like the S8 that have Band 66 but have to have different firmware flashed in the modem to work vs the devices Freedom has. How fast do you think the Feds will tell Freedom "get your **** together"? Extremely fast. Probably put a deadline on it too. That makes it even better.

    Freedom has no choice. Either way you look at it someone's holding a loaded gun and itching to pull the trigger. If the iPhone 8, 8 Plus and X do not work on Freedom with Band 66, they burned the last bridge they have to get the network certified by Apple. People can accept "we're working on it" but how long will you use that excuse for?

    22nd is next Friday. Forcing customers to get a new phone is inconsequential. It'll be moot in December. Most people come with unlocked phones. I will agree that most people are uninformed, as I researched this one. That I will agree with you on. It's like financing a car. At the end, you paid more for the car than what the Blue Book value is.

    As for the reference of the big 3 carriers? How much do you think that bill cost at the restaurant and strip club?

    The evidence of provisioning is overwhelming and does not help out your defense. Nor does it help out Shaw. Anyone can see that I'm probably arguing and they would be correct, except, the Band 66 issues with our BYOD users prove Freedom is provisioning their devices over the BYOD as a whole. Freedom wants you to use "their" devices and screw everyone else. BYOD doesn't work like that. Without a doubt. It's not Qualcomm's issue at all. I blame Freedom from deviating from what the "standard" should be. On the other hand, Freedom does have that spectrum they purchased, for legacy device users. That's universal however.

    Put it this way. Someone gets an 8 or 8 Plus, rolls it on Freedom, and finds out LTE (66) is not working? What excuse will Freedom have? Zero. That will be irrefutable proof Freedom is provisioning.
    Last edited by Driver8666; 09-14-2017 at 06:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver8666 View Post
    I feel inclined to actually get an 8 Plus and see if it will work on Band 66 with Freedom. If it doesn't, I'll complain to the Feds, and point out the 1P5 issues as well as non-branded devices like the S8 that have Band 66 but have to have different firmware flashed in the modem to work vs the devices Freedom has. How fast do you think the Feds will tell Freedom "get your **** together"? Extremely fast. Probably put a deadline on it too. That makes it even better.
    What do you think the Federal Government is going to do? Tell Freedom to start supporting Apple devices? They can't force Freedom to support a device simply becausae you want to use it on their network. Also, why would you go out and buy an iPhone 8 Plus if you weren't 100% sure that it would work on the network you use? This is up to the buyer to do their research.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by laxplayer19 View Post
    What do you think the Federal Government is going to do? Tell Freedom to start supporting Apple devices? They can't force Freedom to support a device simply becausae you want to use it on their network. Also, why would you go out and buy an iPhone 8 Plus if you weren't 100% sure that it would work on the network you use? This is up to the buyer to do their research.
    I'll agree with you in that regard do the research, but here we have something that is extremely important to Freedom. But this is literally make or break. If you look at it. You could cover it from all angles I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver8666 View Post
    I'll agree with you in that regard do the research, but here we have something that is extremely important to Freedom. But this is literally make or break. If you look at it. You could cover it from all angles I suppose.
    I really don't think it is make or break. They have never officially supported the iPhone and have over a million subscribers so I am not sure how the iPhone 8/Plus/X turns this into a make or break situation.

    Don't get me wrong, there is for sure demand for Freedom to get certified for the iPhone but to say that the Federal Government will step in and do something if they don't get certified is a little far fetched.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laxplayer19 View Post
    Don't get me wrong, there is for sure demand for Freedom to get certified for the iPhone but to say that the Federal Government will step in and do something if they don't get certified is a little far fetched.
    Apple has enough market power as it is, in ways it's tyrannical, that's well established.
    The consumers' cost of joining the Apple ecosystem is unreasonable, for many prohibitive.
    Their flouting of open standards to fortify their walled garden is offensive to some of us.
    I'd hate to think Freedom rates might get bumped down the road due to costs of compliance.
    I would like to see the network 'certified', for the sake of iPhone users.

    I admire the security of the iPhone, and the idiot-proof UI, but that's about it.
    No offense, iPhone fans.
    /rant

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver8666 View Post
    I disagree. Completely. After the 22nd we'll definitely find out if this is the case. Freedom, whatever crap they are pulling off now, can't continue to do this after the 8 and 8 Plus get released. It has to end. If 1P5 users complained enough, on here that Band 66 is not working for them, unless they flashed the firmware in the modem to get it to work, that tells you that they are provisioning. BYOD has to work with the network. Period, including Band 66. They prefer their devices over another's and this **** has to stop on the 22nd. Full stop. I see it that way. Anyone else will as well. I feel inclined to actually get an 8 Plus and see if it will work on Band 66 with Freedom. If it doesn't, I'll complain to the Feds, and point out the 1P5 issues as well as non-branded devices like the S8 that have Band 66 but have to have different firmware flashed in the modem to work vs the devices Freedom has. How fast do you think the Feds will tell Freedom "get your **** together"? Extremely fast. Probably put a deadline on it too. That makes it even better.

    Freedom has no choice. Either way you look at it someone's holding a loaded gun and itching to pull the trigger. If the iPhone 8, 8 Plus and X do not work on Freedom with Band 66, they burned the last bridge they have to get the network certified by Apple. People can accept "we're working on it" but how long will you use that excuse for?

    22nd is next Friday. Forcing customers to get a new phone is inconsequential. It'll be moot in December. Most people come with unlocked phones. I will agree that most people are uninformed, as I researched this one. That I will agree with you on. It's like financing a car. At the end, you paid more for the car than what the Blue Book value is.

    As for the reference of the big 3 carriers? How much do you think that bill cost at the restaurant and strip club?

    The evidence of provisioning is overwhelming and does not help out your defense. Nor does it help out Shaw. Anyone can see that I'm probably arguing and they would be correct, except, the Band 66 issues with our BYOD users prove Freedom is provisioning their devices over the BYOD as a whole. Freedom wants you to use "their" devices and screw everyone else. BYOD doesn't work like that. Without a doubt. It's not Qualcomm's issue at all. I blame Freedom from deviating from what the "standard" should be. On the other hand, Freedom does have that spectrum they purchased, for legacy device users. That's universal however.

    Put it this way. Someone gets an 8 or 8 Plus, rolls it on Freedom, and finds out LTE (66) is not working? What excuse will Freedom have? Zero. That will be irrefutable proof Freedom is provisioning.
    Listen, I understand it may SEEM like they are provisioning, but that's clearly not the case here. They are desperate for subscribers, and will take them.on however they can but even if that's not the case, it has been proven on a technical level that they aren't provisioning. There have been reports of the HTC U11 working with B66, a device that isn't carried by Freedom and has a Qualcomm chip, so why does it work? Because HTC decided to include the values to make it function with B66 properly. This network oddity is almost certainly to do with the Nokia hardware they are using, I will give you this one, because it seems Nokia uses a odd implementation of 3G to LTE handover, but they already purchased and implemented this hardware so there is nothing they can do but work with manufacturers to start including the firmware to make it work like it should. As I've mentioned before, zivan was able to get his G5+ working properly with B66 LTE, and put his findings on XDA. Look it up. If this was network provisioning, that wouldn't be possible.

    Sent from my Z957 using HoFo mobile app

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjw918 View Post
    Apple has enough market power as it is, in ways it's tyrannical, that's well established.
    The consumers' cost of joining the Apple ecosystem is unreasonable, for many prohibitive.
    Their flouting of open standards to fortify their walled garden is offensive to some of us.
    I'd hate to think Freedom rates might get bumped down the road due to costs of compliance.
    I would like to see the network 'certified', for the sake of iPhone users.

    I admire the security of the iPhone, and the idiot-proof UI, but that's about it.
    No offense, iPhone fans.
    /rant
    You forgot iPhones do not get viruses or anything. I believe. Idiot-proof UI is right. I don't think an idiot could crack the UI. Or could they?

    Your reference to the ecosystem I'll partially agree with you. It's not unreasonable, but prohibitive, is only when you have to buy a device that's completely unlocked like mine. Unreasonable? If you tab the device, take the retail value of you phone including tax, and divide that by 24, then it does become unreasonable (I did that with my phone) whatever numbers you manage to hit. I came out around $50.00 a month to subsidize my phone, say if Freedom did offer iPhones. Can you imagine subsidizing an iPhone 8, 8 Plus or the X? But most people as you know don't give a damn about the numbers and want the latest and greatest thing out there. In addition, you might as well look up in the Blue Book how much you paid for your phone over 24 months and then look at the depreciated value of the phone. Yes I know I'm using references to the Blue Book as it refers to automobiles but it's the same analogy (almost). If they had a Blue Book for phones (Android and Apple), I bet everyone would be using it.

    For my 6S Plus, I estimate I've got 2 maybe 3 years of use out of it, before it has to go the way of the digital ecosystem. If Apple allows the OS to be continually upgraded, then it could last maybe longer than that. 4 years tops. iOS 11 is due next Tuesday.

    When I bought my iPhone, and was setting it up in the store, you would not believe the people I had seen that had an iPhone 4. 4! My girlfriend had an iPhone 4, and she traded that in for a 6S Plus. I often joke that our 2 iPhones need to have "relations". Lol.

    I don't know about the open standards thing. I do know it's closed source or is it? Last I heard it was.

    As for the final two about Freedom's rates might get bumped down the road due to costs of compliance and the network certified, they should worry about network certification first. I know they flaunt the VoIP and VoWiFi, both of which are important for long term, but look at it realistically. If they get the certification by Apple, it'll also benefit Android users as well. VoIP and VoWiFi are all but assured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qag01 View Post
    Listen, I understand it may SEEM like they are provisioning, but that's clearly not the case here. They are desperate for subscribers, and will take them.on however they can but even if that's not the case, it has been proven on a technical level that they aren't provisioning. There have been reports of the HTC U11 working with B66, a device that isn't carried by Freedom and has a Qualcomm chip, so why does it work? Because HTC decided to include the values to make it function with B66 properly. This network oddity is almost certainly to do with the Nokia hardware they are using, I will give you this one, because it seems Nokia uses a odd implementation of 3G to LTE handover, but they already purchased and implemented this hardware so there is nothing they can do but work with manufacturers to start including the firmware to make it work like it should. As I've mentioned before, zivan was able to get his G5+ working properly with B66 LTE, and put his findings on XDA. Look it up. If this was network provisioning, that wouldn't be possible.

    Sent from my Z957 using HoFo mobile app
    I know about the XDA thing, but he had to modify the firmware to do it. That's where the provisioning accusation comes from. But lets move on. To be short and brief, let's hope Apple put those values into the modem.

    But we also have the Videotron spectrum for the legacy users.

    Yeah you are right, they did purchase the hardware and it's probably too late to change anything. If Apple included those values into the modem's firmware at the time of manufacture, I believe it'll be one less hurdle towards certification. But we won't know until next week with the 8, and November for the X. I bet someone out there will get one of those devices and see if it works. It's a risk as it's been mentioned before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver8666 View Post
    I'll agree with you in that regard do the research, but here we have something that is extremely important to Freedom. But this is literally make or break. If you look at it. You could cover it from all angles I suppose.
    This is incredibly dramatic. It's not make or break for Freedom. They have over a million subs who obviously don't care about official iPhone status or not.

    Freedom is a low cost carrier, plain and simple. Who in their right mind is going to pay upwards of $70 per month for a top of the line iPhone X (over 2 years, if interest free) then skimp out on service?

    I'm not with Freedom for their rock solid service. I have 5 lines with them for my family because for the price of a high priced Rogers line, I have 5 lines with 8 GB home, 1 GB roaming and don't have to worry about overages. I'm with them because my phone isn't the be all and end all of my life, so if a call goes to voicemail because I'm in a dead spot, or I can't access data, I'm not going to die.

    I would imagine 95% of Freedom customers would jump ship if the Big 3 offered them the same plans and prices that they get from Freedom, with plans that don't increase over time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver8666 View Post
    I'll agree with you in that regard do the research, but here we have something that is extremely important to Freedom. But this is literally make or break. If you look at it. You could cover it from all angles I suppose.
    Freedom does need to carry the iPhone. Full Stop.

    When almost half of the smart phones sold are iOS devices, you are missing out on all those potential subscribers.

    Previously, Freedom didn't have the spectrum real estate to compete fully with the big 3. That is changing before Christmas this year.

    Apple refused to certify any network that wasn't LTE capable, so Freedom was out of luck, now with Apple products available on the network (assuming proper firmware builds) that could change, and rapidly.

    If Freedom gets an iPhone, then the other carriers will stop and pay attention.

    Right now they have the other 40% of the market, which is enough to get elected President of the USA.
    Or Prime Minister of Canada, for that matter...



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    Last edited by sirtate; 09-14-2017 at 04:17 PM. Reason: Hi

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    Quote Originally Posted by markf_2 View Post
    Freedom is a low cost carrier, plain and simple. Who in their right mind is going to pay upwards of $70 per month for a top of the line iPhone X (over 2 years, if interest free) then skimp out on service?
    Here's where we disagree. I'm not an iPhone user, but I do use flagship Android phones on the Freedom network (I'm currently waiting for the Pixel 2XL). I've never really understood this claim, because who else is going to give me an 11gb plan for the price I pay Freedom? I find the network reliable and perfectly justified to use it with a high end device



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    I might be stupid with my question. But here it goes:

    I am with Koodo and they use 3g for calls and LTE for data, just like freedom.

    Once the new iphones are out, why would them work the same like they work on Koodo?
    It goes back and forth when u make a call.

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