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Thread: T-Mobile Intros iPhone 8, 8 Plus, X and Series 3 Watch

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    Of course the not yet covered areas are remote. T-Mobile has the urban areas already covered.

    T-Mobile hasn't been gaining that many customers in these areas. You can call the local cellular stores where they've rolled out new coverage using B12 and they'll.
    It has been gaining customers who live in and travel to these areas. Because most Americans want their phones to work everywhere they go, not just in their houses. In fact they specifically told me of all the new customers switching from Verizon to band 12 T-Mobile... This was last week at the T-Mobile store. The fact is that customers need coverage. And the expansion into band 12 is been a huge deal for T-Mobile and gaining customers. Because a huge proportion of Americans need coverage in the B12 and 600 areas. That is really the main reason for T-Mobile's explosive growth lately.

    And no T-Mobile does not have all the urban areas covered. There are plenty not covered. I could probably give you a list with hundreds of urban areas.

    And that's as Urban is actually defined. You might be confusing Urban with "major Metropolitan". There's a huge difference between the definitions.

    All those supposedly empty Western States that a certain myopic hodophobic T-Mobile fans that hate good coverage think are worthless really have huge and profitable coverage needs. Each one of them has from 10 to 30 million living working and playing there... And it quickly adds up to be a huge proportion of the United States population, and of course a huge profit area for T-Mobile. Americans is mobile. The average American goes to a dozen states.

    I'm a huge fan of T-Mobile coverage, is they are expanding from meeting the needs of only a small proportion of people to meeting the needs of just about everyone. Halfway there already! A viable option. T-Mobile recognizes this. That's why they have bet the bank on expanding coverage. Because that is what will get all the new customers in. Not merely the 'rearranging deck chairs' matter of changing things around in the small area that has already had coverage for years

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    Quote Originally Posted by clonehappy View Post
    At least with Apple, if anyone is spying on me it's Apple. I really only have to trust one entity. Whether or not you should actually trust them is obviously up for debate.

    With Android, who knows who could be watching! So many fingers are in that pie that any meaningful security is pretty much impossible.
    Actually security is a lot more "possible". Android gives you a lot more power to install truly secure options including TOR and other encrypted browsers that are quite often simply blocked on iPhones.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotABiot View Post
    The midline Motos all have average cameras ... I know, I have one. But I'd for sure consider paying more for a phone with a great camera.
    The Moto X4 might be the one to crack this problem. I wish someone would make a good midrange phone with an amazing camera, as everything else is good enough for 99% of people, even a tech savvy user like me, and honestly I'd rather have better battery life than the latest Qualcomm 835 processor and a 1440p screen that just drain my S7's battery. The challenge for me is that I need full support for AT&T, and AT&T will not allow the Moto phones on VoLTE and VoWiFi, and Motorola for some reason won't add B29/30, so they really are T-Mobile phones, even though they will work at some level with any carrier. They work for some folks though, like a friend that I recommended a G4 Plus (at the time) to, she's got a Cricket SIM in it, and it works fine for her with HSPA+ calling and B2/4/5/17 LTE data, $35/mo out the door Unlimited everything (throttled at 4GB).

    What we have seen is a nearly complete bifurcation of the market. The monthly installment plans on the major postpaid plans have caused Americans to forget how to do math and pay more than ever for ridiculously overpriced phones at the high end of the market, while at the low end, Wal-Mart is selling iPhones for as low as $129, and halfway decent Android phones for well under $100, with prepaid SIM cards from a variety of carriers and brands that offer choices on all four major networks with various buckets and "Unlimited" plans. This is insane, because most people would be best served by a mid-range device in the $199 to $399 price range. Many on prepaid plans would have a better experience with their device, and many at the high end simply don't need crazy high end devices. Of course there is always a market for light users or people on very tight budgets at the bottom, and tech geeks like us on the high end, but most of the market should be in the middle, yet it barely exists in the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ten Four View Post
    Go to any major enterprise and almost everyone has an iPhone, and the boss certainly does and the latest one too. All the minions below want to appear like they fit in, so they buy iPhones, even if an Android might suit them better for one reason or another.
    I don't find this to be the case at all. Granted, in my office, the bosses' company phones are a mix of flip phones and Blackberries, and various people have various personal phones, but at the lower level, it's a total mix of Android and iPhones.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake26 View Post
    Man come on  at if no 600 MHz support why not make it a fast charge capable. Oh wait they did ....sort of ....but you have to buy more chargers and it’s a work around ...sort of not true fast charging.
    No one seems to be able to comprehend the fast charging thing. Apple should have just included the fast charger in the box, and we can absolutely fault them for that, but let's not start spreading falsehoods.

    The iPhone 7, and possibly earlier, have kinda-sorta fast charging. They come with a 1A/5V brick, and with Anker Charge IQ, an iPad charger, and probably a plethora of other chargers, you can get up to 2.1A/5V, or slightly over 10W. This is a halfway version of fast charging, but technically isn't fast charging at all, it's just a higher current version of USB.

    The iPhone 8 and X have true fast charging using USB-C PD, which is a truly universal standard. We don't know the actual wattage yet, but it is likely either 15W or 18W, which is as good or better than the semi-proprietary systems used by Samsung (Qualcomm QC2/3) or the even more proprietary Turbo Power system used by Motorola, which delivers up to 15W. Nobody has one to test yet, but it should work fine with an Anker or any other brand USB-C adapter using a USB-C to Lightning cable, and with a different brick and the cable included in the box, it still fully supports kinda-sorta fast charging at 10W using 2.1A/5V bricks like the iPad or Anker Charge IQ. I mostly use Charge IQ even with my Galaxy S7, as it's almost as fast as the faster charger, and I can use a single 4-port charger to kinda-sorta-fast charge a battery pack, an iPad, and my phone all at once, and the same will be true for the iPhone 7, new iPhones, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotABiot View Post
    But I guess Apple was too busy blundering by making the battery on its new Watch even weaker to actually focus on useful stuff like this. Not that adding 600 mhz would have required much focus and effort at all.
    Yeah, this is a huge blunder by Apple, and it is sure to hurt T-Mobile, which is unfortunate. I was really hoping for B14 as well, although B71 is much more significant, as B14 isn't live at all yet, and AT&T has B5 or B17 virtually everywhere anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by clonehappy View Post
    Android has two markets: High end techies who get in johnson-swinging contests about processor speed, chipsets, speed tests, etc. and care about low-level file management and hacking and how many dBm of reception my phone has vs. yours (ex: most of us on this forum). The second market: poor people who muddle through wishing they had an iPhone but they can't afford one.
    Actually I know a lot of people who have a rabid hatred of Apple and everything they make and stand for, and buy an Android phone simply because of that. There is also a bias towards Android on Verizon, and towards iPhone on AT&T, partially because some users moved one way or the other for their preferred OS in the 2007-2011 timeframe, and partially because some users who picked a carrier got the phone that carrier had during that time, and have stuck with the platform and ecosystem ever since.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotABiot View Post
    Jet I doubt most T-Mobike customers prefer a situation where the phones won't work in one third of places The area not covered yet but due to be covered by 600 MHz isn't "remote": it is countrywide, it is interspersed by areas already covered, it is near and far, and it is urban areas and cities and towns.... And it is no more "remote" than Band 12 regions and areas on the older bands.
    The lack of B71 is absolutely a big problem for the iPhone, and a big blunder on Apple's part. The biggest effect may be a few years down the road, when T-Mobile starts to roll out 600mhz in more bigger markets as the TV spectrum is cleared off, and those deployments improve capacity and in-building penetration, and not land-area coverage that is already done with B12 or B2/4.

    The big question here is whether T-Mobile builds B71-only sites. jet1000 seems to think that T-Mobile should, and will, build B71-only sites. Although it's pretty obvious that this would be incomprehensibly stupid, especially in the light of the new iPhones, time will tell how they build out. If all B71 sites also have B2 and B4 on them, then the impact of B71 in phones will be far less significant, as occasional visitors to new B71-buildout areas will have most of the coverage that users with a B71 device will, albeit losing the edge of the cell a bit sooner than they would on B71, and possibly not being able to hand off from one cell to another while driving in certain places.

    I cannot for the life of me explain why, but on AT&T, B2 is almost as good as B17, while B4 is much weaker. I'm not sure if it's how AT&T has tuned their antennas and radios, or if it has something to do with the transmit power allowed in the various bands, or the way the Galaxy S7's Qualcomm radio and antenna design handles the various bands. Because of this, I don't know how this would translate to B71 vs. B2 coverage, and how much better B71 will be over B17 and thus B2.

    The challenge for T-Mobile is that they are either going to have customers buy the iPhone who are uninformed about B71 (i.e. 99% of the population), and then have spottier coverage than someone on an Android phone and aren't happy with T-Mobile or Apple, or they will get a bunch of bad press about how "the iPhone doesn't support their new LTE network", and that will scare people off, even if the practical difference ends up being minimal. If they are so stupid as to build sites without B2/B4, then they are going to have a lot of customers who are absolutely pissed about not having any coverage or roaming in areas that show coverage on the map, however, I highly doubt this will be the case, both because of the iPhone/S8, and because any small marginal added cost of B2/B4 would quickly pay for itself in avoiding AT&T roaming fees for the affected devices.

  5. #50
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    I dunno about you guys but I've survived this long without Band 71 and has my family. We are all ex AT&T converts and so far we've had a much better LTE network experience with T-Mobile without Band 71 in inland Southern California.

    Band 71 will be awesome for those times in the future when I *may* need it on some random trip to Wyoming but so far I'm doing just fine. In fact I spend 100% of my day (usually) on Band 4 go figure.

    Would I have liked to have Band 71 included? You bet. But will that stop me from buying a new iPhone X or am I suddenly going to have terrible coverage without it? Absolutely not.
    “The Internet wasn’t meant to be metered in bits and bytes, so it’s insane that wireless companies are still making you buy it this way. The rate plan is dead — it’s a fossil from a time when wireless was metered by every call or text.” John Legere 1/5/2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by GSMinCT View Post
    The lack of B71 is absolutely a big problem for the iPhone, and a big blunder on Apple's part. The biggest effect may be a few years down the road, when T-Mobile starts to roll out 600mhz in more bigger markets as the TV spectrum is cleared off, and those deployments improve capacity and in-building penetration, and not land-area coverage that is already done with B12 or B2/4......
    \

    I tend to think of it as a blunder, but it is really based on a good dose of prognostication.... If T-Mobile really drags its feet on rolling out "B-71" in a big and meaningful way over the next year, come September 2018, we will be where we are right now. And Apple will be none the worse for wear, and surely the "iPhone Xs" (pronounced Excess) released a year from now will support T-Mobile's new band.

    Actually, the way things have been going for years, "Apple will be none the worse for wear" is always a safe bet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GSMinCT View Post
    I don't find this to be the case at all. Granted, in my office, the bosses' company phones are a mix of flip phones and Blackberries, and various people have various personal phones, but at the lower level, it's a total mix of Android and iPhones.
    I think his statement does work however for working in a certain new ring-shaped office building in Silicon Valley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GSMinCT View Post
    The Moto X4 might be the one to crack this problem. I wish someone would make a good midrange phone with an amazing camera,
    Looking at reviews, the Moto X4 DOES indeed seem to have a GREAT low light camera. So it might indeed crack this problem. Thank you for pointing this out to me. I'd been trying to follow the models this year, but the profusion of similarly-named models got to be too much and I gave up.

    On top of that, the top flagship, the "Z2 Force", has a bad camera.... and two of the reviewers at Twit's "All About Android" report the screen starting to peel off after only a couple of weeks of normal use (on two different units).

    Seems the company does extremely well at midline phones, but fails at flagships.

    But if they came out with something that was like the Moto G5 except it had a topnotch camera, I would definitely give it a look.... but next year, in the hopes that it will have T-Mobile's new band in the radio.

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    T-Mobile Intros iPhone 8, 8 Plus, X and Series 3 Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    But for those that are already satisfied with T-mobile coverage, they're not going to delay their phone purchases waiting for B71. They'll buy the new iphones when available.

    I must say that I don't agree with this. Some who don't care about band 71 or who don't know will buy it. But I won't and I think it's likely there are lots of others who won't either. I'm happy with T-Mobile coverage but the idea of paying $1000+ for a phone that won't work with the latest technology just irks me. Also, two years down the line, I would think the lack of band 71 would not only be more of an issue as far as coverage but also for resale value. So I'm going to pass on the new iPhone until they get Band 71. My 6s Plus is just fine until then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erikkarma808 View Post
    I must say that I don't agree with this. Some who don't care about band 71 or who don't know will buy it. But I won't and I think it's likely there are lots of others who won't either. I'm happy with T-Mobile coverage but the idea of paying $1000+ for a phone that won't work with the latest technology just irks me. Also, two years down the line, I would think the lack of band 71 would not only be more of an issue as far as coverage but also for resale value. So I'm going to pass on the new iPhone until they get Band 71. My 6s Plus is just fine until then.
    Exactly. And if ""those that are already satisfied with T-mobile coverage" are like most Americans. they will be needing coverage at some point on T-Mobile in this new "Band 71" territory during the two years. Because the planned "Band 71" territory isn't "remote": it is scattered across the US it is in just about every state, it is peppered with urban areas inside it, and it is located adjacent to huge metropolitan areas. The "Band 71" territory that is truly remote, with no urban areas in it, and no huge cities anywhere near, is really rather rare.. like an area in Nevada and north of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GSMinCT View Post
    Actually I know a lot of people who have a rabid hatred of Apple and everything they make and stand for
    I, too, know a lot of idiots.

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    Over the past 4 years we've seen T-Mobile sign up a ton of new customers and steal market share from the incumbents and others. I'm pretty sure if customers were not happy with T-Mobile coverage their churn rates would reflect this.

    Regardless of our opinions I believe churn rates give us a good indication of customer satisfaction overall.

    I've read the hysterical tech feeds from today from BGR and others and they make it sound like T-Mobile customers who buy a new iPhone are screwed and are going to lose coverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NotABiot View Post
    I tend to think of it as a blunder, but it is really based on a good dose of prognostication.... If T-Mobile really drags its feet on rolling out "B-71" in a big and meaningful way over the next year, come September 2018, we will be where we are right now. And Apple will be none the worse for wear, and surely the "iPhone Xs" (pronounced Excess) released a year from now will support T-Mobile's new band.
    It's still a huge blunder on Apple's part. I'm sure they'll be just fine, and the sales they lose to screwing up on B71 won't be any worse than sales lost to the #donglelife or their refusal to increase battery capacity or drop pricing more, or any one of a myriad of complaints about the iPhone. But it's still a huge blunder.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotABiot View Post
    I think his statement does work however for working in a certain new ring-shaped office building in Silicon Valley.
    True.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotABiot View Post
    Looking at reviews, the Moto X4 DOES indeed seem to have a GREAT low light camera. So it might indeed crack this problem. Thank you for pointing this out to me. I'd been trying to follow the models this year, but the profusion of similarly-named models got to be too much and I gave up.

    On top of that, the top flagship, the "Z2 Force", has a bad camera.... and two of the reviewers at Twit's "All About Android" report the screen starting to peel off after only a couple of weeks of normal use (on two different units).

    Seems the company does extremely well at midline phones, but fails at flagships.

    But if they came out with something that was like the Moto G5 except it had a topnotch camera, I would definitely give it a look.... but next year, in the hopes that it will have T-Mobile's new band in the radio.
    The whole Moto Mods thing is a cool idea, but they are way too expensive to drop more money into a proprietary system. I haven't seen any reviews on the Moto X4, although Googling, it looks like the NDA dropped about two weeks ago, and there are a few reviews floating out there.

    The Moto X4 could well be the midrange phone to crack the code on what a midrange device should be. It's going to be another year for B71 support, however, and their band support in general is rather lousy, with no B29/30 for AT&T. Unfortunately, as it stands today, it doesn't have complete band support and functionality on any major carrier. If they had put in B71, it would be the perfect T-Mobile phone and a great value. These unlocked phones on T-Mobile make sense, as you get a value-oriented carrier that's now surprisingly good with a value-oriented phone that's now surprisingly good.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotABiot View Post
    Exactly. And if ""those that are already satisfied with T-mobile coverage" are like most Americans. they will be needing coverage at some point on T-Mobile in this new "Band 71" territory during the two years. Because the planned "Band 71" territory isn't "remote": it is scattered across the US it is in just about every state, it is peppered with urban areas inside it, and it is located adjacent to huge metropolitan areas. The "Band 71" territory that is truly remote, with no urban areas in it, and no huge cities anywhere near, is really rather rare.. like an area in Nevada and north of it.
    They have a nationwide B71 license, or I should say, will once broadcasters vacate. So B71 could improve in-building penetration in every non-B12 market, and capacity in all markets. Whether it actually provides new cell coverage, or just better cell edge coverage depends on if they start building B71-only sites, or have B2 on everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by @TheRealDanny View Post
    That's great to know, Danny!

    I think the Apple watch might truly take off this time too.

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