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Thread: Why are flip phones with external antennas?

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    Why are flip phones with external antennas?

    Is it just me, or does the fact that most flip phones that use external antennas drive you up the wall? I really hate having this pointy antenna sticking out and poking u in the side or somewhere when you keep the phone at your side or having the antenna get bent. This was the reason I bought the T206 - Great RF, and INTERNAL Antenna.


    Can someone tell me some reasons why manufactures still make antennas that stick out? Many phones have internal antennas and their RF is exceptional (Steve Punter feel free to help me out here).

    Any takers?

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    The external antenna helps the Analog.... Digital it does nothing.... It's for AMPS....
    What is Understood, Need Not Be Discussed...."

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    If that was the reason, it would mean people are spending less on design and innovation and more on pushing features.

    The T206 I have gives decent Digital RF. I have not had much experience with Analog but from the times it switched to Analog, it held the signal quite well in comparison to my other phones.

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    i hate that too..... screw analog.. we don't need it no more..... antennas sucks.... who needs it.....

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    Depends on the area you live in!

    I myself could care less about analog since my phone only jumps to it if I'm in the bowels of a department store - in the changeroom for example... but then digital is dead, analog is 0-1bar... so who cares? When would I ever need it?

    There are people who have very sparse digital coverage however that rely on analog for backup, so for them it's very useful.
    Alex

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    Re: Why are flip phones with external antennas?

    Originally posted by HighTech
    Is it just me, or does the fact that most flip phones that use external antennas drive you up the wall? I really hate having this pointy antenna sticking out and poking u in the side or somewhere when you keep the phone at your side or having the antenna get bent. This was the reason I bought the T206 - Great RF, and INTERNAL Antenna.


    Can someone tell me some reasons why manufactures still make antennas that stick out? Many phones have internal antennas and their RF is exceptional (Steve Punter feel free to help me out here).

    Any takers?

    You guys are all forgetting one important thing.... SAR.

    If you have a fixed antenna or a internal antenna the highest point of radiation is at the tip of the antenna. The closer this is to your head the worse this is for you. When you have a extendable antenna it moves that point higher and away from your head.

    This is a major factor as well.

    Also, yes a extendable antenna is needed for 800MHZ digital because the wavelength at 800MHZ is wider so you need a longer antenna. This goes for 800MHZ CDMA, GSM, TDMA and AMPS.

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    Re: Re: Why are flip phones with external antennas?

    I have a fixed antenna that works fine in digital and analogue.

    Originally posted by Vindicator
    You guys are all forgetting one important thing.... SAR.

    If you have a fixed antenna or a internal antenna the highest point of radiation is at the tip of the antenna. The closer this is to your head the worse this is for you. When you have a extendable antenna it moves that point higher and away from your head.

    This is a major factor as well.

    Also, yes a extendable antenna is needed for 800MHZ digital because the wavelength at 800MHZ is wider so you need a longer antenna. This goes for 800MHZ CDMA, GSM, TDMA and AMPS.
    John. H.

    I do not fear the white van!

    TelusMobility@nym.hush.com

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    Pic

    Originally posted by cellmam
    i hate that too..... screw analog.. we don't need it no more..... antennas sucks.... who needs it.....
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Re: Re: Re: Why are flip phones with external antennas?

    Originally posted by Helmsley
    I have a fixed antenna that works fine in digital and analogue.
    "works fine" is a subjective term though. Obviously a extendable antenna will work under most conditions with it down, but the question is does it work better at 800MHZ with a raised antenna? I mean, it's a trade off. Better reception and less cancer or no antenna? From my experience using that type of antenna is a penalty in 800MHZ areas. I've never seen one which hasn't dropped the -dB level compared with the stock antenna in analog or CDMA 800 modes. Personally, I want the extra -dB under weak conditions.

    Depending on what the internal antenna is made of it can get as decent reception as a extendable antenna. I'm also pointing out that there are other reasons for have extenables not related to RF.

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Why are flip phones with external antennas?

    One must be carefull, my fixed antenna is only designed for CDMA, there's also a model for GSM only and when I tried that one, I really noticed the fall off in reception.

    Originally posted by Vindicator
    "works fine" is a subjective term though. Obviously a extendable antenna will work under most conditions with it down, but the question is does it work better at 800MHZ with a raised antenna? I mean, it's a trade off. Better reception and less cancer or no antenna? From my experience using that type of antenna is a penalty in 800MHZ areas. I've never seen one which hasn't dropped the -dB level compared with the stock antenna in analog or CDMA 800 modes. Personally, I want the extra -dB under weak conditions.

    Depending on what the internal antenna is made of it can get as decent reception as a extendable antenna. I'm also pointing out that there are other reasons for have extenables not related to RF.

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    Yes, by virtue of the physics of electromagnetic wave reception, an antenna works best if it is the highest point of the device which is grounded (i.e. to you). The SAR thing is also a good reason.

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    I don't think that SAR has anything to do with the antenna. I think that the antenna is there to optimize the phone's RF TX at the band it was designed for. An Example is the Mike phone. Physically the antenna should be at the extended range at all times for best preformance. This is because the antenna is exacly 1/2 the wave lenght meaning it doesn't need a ground like a 1/4 wave lenght would. But since any piece of medal or conductant will recieve RF at any size the antenna can be down to recieve calls and then extended once talking. This is what the procedure should be. As there are more phones designed fro 1900MhZ the antenna's are getting shorter and optimized for that band. As well there is also a lot of better coverage through out now a days you can get away from not extening the antenna as much. Any way that's my thoughts so feal free to comment.

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    Originally posted by celfone
    I don't think that SAR has anything to do with the antenna. I think that the antenna is there to optimize the phone's RF TX at the band it was designed for. An Example is the Mike phone. Physically the antenna should be at the extended range at all times for best preformance. This is because the antenna is exacly 1/2 the wave lenght meaning it doesn't need a ground like a 1/4 wave lenght would. But since any piece of medal or conductant will recieve RF at any size the antenna can be down to recieve calls and then extended once talking. This is what the procedure should be. As there are more phones designed fro 1900MhZ the antenna's are getting shorter and optimized for that band. As well there is also a lot of better coverage through out now a days you can get away from not extening the antenna as much. Any way that's my thoughts so feal free to comment.
    Did a little math:

    800Mhz (roughly) iDEN carrier signal (wavelength using v/f formula) = 0.375m at lambda/2 would require an antenna of 18.75cm. A Mike phone antenna (extended) is exactly (from base if you remove the battery cover) you guessed it, 18.75 cm - try it kids! Rule of thumb, always extend the antenna just like how the engineers designed it. It pays to stay in school. As for the comment that 'any conductive metal will receive RF' this is only a half truth. While it's true that a piece of metal will affect the path (or even impede) of an electromagnetic signal, one which is electromagnetically 'tuned' (as per the 'L-C' tank formula) will resonate at that frequency - think 'tuning fork'.

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