Best Blackberry service in Manhattan/NYC?

[am7b5d7b9]

I need to get a blackberry this week, and i've been looking through so many different websites and i just can't decide what to get.

should i get the 7750 with verizon? the 7780 or 7280 with at&t? the 7730 or 7230 with t-mobile? the 7510 with nextel?

i need to be able to check AOL mail, and use the web, as well as use it as a phone to call domestically and internationally (though i never need to go overseas, i just need to be able to call internationally from manhattan).

i also need to be able to write/send/check e-mails while talking on the phone. and i need to be able conference call.

i'm in midtown manhattan and will most likely need to use this in an office and while wandering around manhattan.

which service is the best? which service will give me the best reception and the quickest e-mail (aol)?

any help anyone can get will be greatly appreciated, for i haven't the slightest idea where to begin...thank so much!

[T.A.]

In NYC T-Mobile, coverage is excellent (cheap too) and it's international.

The best coverage is definitely Verizon though they are expensive and I don't like their support.

Cingular currently rides T-Mobile network on the east coast, and AT&T WS is just ok. Nextel is pretty good for coverage, but very expensive.

Cost wise & customer service T-Mobile. Coverage, Verizon.

I've used them all, they're all fast. T-Mobile, BB's can access POP3 (BlackBerry Web Client) - not sure about the rest.

[hillstrubl]

Originally posted by T.A.
In NYC T-Mobile, coverage is excellent (cheap too) and it's international.

The best coverage is definitely Verizon though they are expensive and I don't like their support.

Cingular currently rides T-Mobile network on the east coast, and AT&T WS is just ok. Nextel is pretty good for coverage, but very expensive.

Cost wise & customer service T-Mobile. Coverage, Verizon.

I've used them all, they're all fast. T-Mobile, BB's can access POP3 (BlackBerry Web Client) - not sure about the rest.

there's a reason t-mob sells about 34% of all BB's in the US...
wow i sound like a tool

[nskgti23]

Originally posted by hillstrubl
there's a reason t-mob sells about 34% of all BB's in the US...
wow i sound like a tool

I'd like to see where you got those numbers....

AT&T Wireless has offered blackberries longer than any of the other carriers. (Other than the old Mobitex ones)

That and AT&T Wireless also has dedicated data channels which means blackberries always have a channel to access. On the other hand TMobile gives you cheaper rates but "lower" network performance... When the network gets congested around 5pm, the blackberries have the lowest priority...

[T.A.]

Actually, T-Mobile been doing it longest (when it was Voicestream). They released the first GPRS model in the U.S., the 5810 in May 2002 - I saw it in demo early March 2002. (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1107-934433.html)

AT&T released the 5810 several months later in Oct. 2002 (http://news.com.com/2100-1033-962055.html). I manage a wireless project at a Fortune 50 company in NYC and have used them all.

Coverage for both stunk back then and the 5810 as a device wasn't much better. Performance is light-years better today. I've never noticed a problem with the T-Mobile or AT&T's model at rush hour in NYC.

As for dedicated data channels: GPRS works by teaming multiple channels used for voice together to provide high bandwidth for data. From an architecture standpoint, it'd be a waste for a carrier to have dedicated data channels since the carriers "killer app" and money maker is voice. They'd always want to cannabilize the data to provide better voice.

Maybe AT&T is prioritizing data over voice but I doubt it. Data is a lot more forgiving when you get a temporary drop-out. With voice, a user instantly knows when the channel is lost and that generates complaints. The funny thing is I actually found the Nextel model, running at 9,600 kbps, has the snappiest data service of them all, probably because it's running pure TCP/IP.

[spence]

Originally posted by am7b5d7b9
...i need to be able to check AOL mail, and use the web...

As far as I know (and that isn't very far...) only Nextel provides web access. Unless you are using a BES server at the office (Blackberry Enterprise Server) with MDS enabled, you will not be able to access the web, only wap.
This is rumored to be changing with the 4.0 release of the handlheld software, but no garauntee when your chosen provider will deploy it once released.

[hillstrubl]

Originally posted by spence
As far as I know (and that isn't very far...) only Nextel provides web access. Unless you are using a BES server at the office (Blackberry Enterprise Server) with MDS enabled, you will not be able to access the web, only wap.
This is rumored to be changing with the 4.0 release of the handlheld software, but no garauntee when your chosen provider will deploy it once released.

not true, with T-mo (and no BES) you can use HTML, you just choose "go-to" instead of "get-link" int he t-zones menu

[nskgti23]

AT&T has dedicated voice and data channels in all markets they offer GSM service. The reason they can do this is because they have more spectrum than TMobile.

As for the killer app and money maker being voice, this is where you are inccorect... Voice is a commodity, Data is a valuable asset in the wireless world today. Of all the customers I deal with, the ones that have data solutions are the ones that will never leave because they see the value in the product. They don't jump around providers because the phone is cheaper of you get xxxx bonus minutes...

Originally posted by T.A.
As for dedicated data channels: GPRS works by teaming multiple channels used for voice together to provide high bandwidth for data. From an architecture standpoint, it'd be a waste for a carrier to have dedicated data channels since the carriers "killer app" and money maker is voice. They'd always want to cannabilize the data to provide better voice.

Maybe AT&T is prioritizing data over voice but I doubt it. Data is a lot more forgiving when you get a temporary drop-out. With voice, a user instantly knows when the channel is lost and that generates complaints. The funny thing is I actually found the Nextel model, running at 9,600 kbps, has the snappiest data service of them all, probably because it's running pure TCP/IP.

[xalca]

Originally posted by nskgti23
AT&T has dedicated voice and data channels in all markets they offer GSM service. The reason they can do this is because they have more spectrum than TMobile.

As for the killer app and money maker being voice, this is where you are inccorect... Voice is a commodity, Data is a valuable asset in the wireless world today. Of all the customers I deal with, the ones that have data solutions are the ones that will never leave because they see the value in the product. They don't jump around providers because the phone is cheaper of you get xxxx bonus minutes...

Tmobile USA sells more Blackberry devices than any other carrier in the World...several years running...

[nskgti23]

Originally posted by xalca
Tmobile USA sells more Blackberry devices than any other carrier in the World...several years running...

Again where did you get this data? I can say GTE sells more Blackberries than anyone else, but without a reliable source to back it up, then it means nothing.

[xalca]

Originally posted by nskgti23
Again where did you get this data? I can say GTE sells more Blackberries than anyone else, but without a reliable source to back it up, then it means nothing.

check everyone press releases...i am not aware of the originating source, however, at tmobile we get company wide emails with the latest awards/accomplishments every so often, I believe this was something communicated directly from RIM and communicated to us through our "State of the Union" updates we get on our various businesses and their progress.

[T.A.]

I can't disagree enough re: voice v. data - which is the killer app. Voice still wins - especially in business. I can say that and I'm about as heavy a BlackBerry user as their ever was.

When was the last time you heard someone drop a carrier because they couldn't surf on their phone or BlackBerry quickly or they got their e-mail in 30 seconds rather than 20?
Now drop a phone call in the middle of a conference, and then tell me you won't hear complaints. Voice may be a commodity, but it's the one that makes an immediate impression. That's not to say data isn't important, it's just easier to correct errors when coverage isn't the greatest.

Voice is real-time and Quality of Service is paramount. Importance may swing toward data as more corporate applications go mobile and real-time video starts to take off, but for the last 100 years and probably the next, voice quality is #1. Just ask anyone who buys a Nextel phone - push to talk and the immediacy of the connection is usually the reason - rarely is it because they run on a pure TCP/IP network.

Now, if you are talking about cellular cards for laptops, etc., that's a different story - that's purchased specifically for high-throughput and 1XRTT and soon, EV-DO (Verizon & Sprint) win that contest hands-down.

In the end though, the mark of a good carrier is one that gives you a good balance between the voice & data at a reasonable cost. Here's a recent survey that I found interesting: http://www.nwfusion.com/newsletters/...wireless2.html

nskgti23, you are right about AT&T WS having more spectrum - 850 & 1900 MHz. However, they are cannibalizing their TDMA service at the same time which in my experience has made coverage iffy. Granted TDMA/AMPS is old news, but that and the uncertainty of the Cingular merger (interesting opposition paper: http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/08...alwireless.pdf and http://www.engadget.com/entry/5170866986575277/) would make me reluctant to choose them. Again, I'll take your word for it on the dedicated GPRS channels but it seems wasteful to me unless they start really pushing UMTS service.

I concur with xalca - I have heard privately that T-Mobile sold the most BlackBerry devices (GPRS-only) but RIM won't make carrier recommmenations so as not to alienate any of their partners. Sales however is a poor yardstick for performance so I wouldn't base my decisions on that.

[nskgti23]

It amazes me when people talk about voice service as the golden ticket. Everyone does voice. If you provide a data solution to a company you are as good as golden with them. Maybe in your eyes, data isn't valuable, but in most corporate environments it is mission critical. Data is more than just blackberries and data cards also. Products such as Outtercurve and Idocoro (sp?) provide solutions that save/make companies huge amounts of money. But I guess that isn't important.

If your looking for a data card solution right now, the EDGE card is flat out the best service available. In NYC I see speeds of 140-160 regularly and speeds up to 210kbps. Show me speeds like that with a 1x network that is nationwide. I've used the EV-DO network and was impressed, but 3 cities is not enough to sell me.

[T.A.]

If you read my post closely, nowhere did I say that data wasn't important. I said that it's not the most important thing. Yes, everyone does voice. I just don't think they all do it well.

I've managed a wireless & network services project for a very large company and wireless data mobility is extremely important to us (otherwise I wouldn't be in this forum) . Data is mission critical, but wireless data isn't (yet) - it can't be because it's not ubiquitous. Both the customer and the carriers are just starting to get a feel for what's what - the best is yet to come. Most major companies in the U.S. that do rely on wireless use older, more mature technology such as Mobitex & DataTAC (older BlackBerry's use these). UPS comes to mind - they are only in the last year or so trying out the new carriers (good article on UPS: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...06599872/print)

It's my experience that most of my peers in other corporations are just starting to scratch the surface, porting their heavy-duty apps to wireless. Hell, most are still migrating their mainframe apps to a web-based distributed environment. Funding for wireless initatives is hard to come by when ROI numbers are so nebulous, but it's starting to come around. Companies like Meta, Ipsos Reid and Gartner Group are just starting to really show people what's possible. There is a need to set customer expectations when approaching large-scale wireless projects because coverage and QOS isn't what we'd all like it to be.

I've tested the 1XRTT card through Sprint & Verizon and they pretty much match your experience on EDGE based on your published numbers. You are right EV-DO isn't out except for a few cities like D.C. Verizon is releasing it in Sept/Oct in NYC although that's not official and Sprint much later. The nice thing about EDGE versus EV-DO and 1XRTT is that it works internationally and we're starting to look at that now as we expand overseas.

All that said, most people with cell cards (or otherwise) don't really care about this alphabet soup of acronyms. They just want to connect as fast as possible in the least amount of time for the least cost.

Lastly, sarcasm aside, products like Idokorro and Outercurve are wonderful (I've used Idokorro for telnet) and are starting to make in-roads in companies, but it's still early in the game. It's relatively easy in my experience to justify an outlay of $10,000 for the IT group to manage their servers remotely since they are a 24 x 7 shop anyway. It's much harder to go to a business and say you can make $x dollars per quarter if you take your app on the road with you. Some are going to say "Yippee!", but the smart ones are going to say "prove it".

[nskgti23]

Originally posted by T.A.
I've tested the 1XRTT card through Sprint & Verizon and they pretty much match your experience on EDGE based on your published numbers. You are right EV-DO isn't out except for a few cities like D.C. Verizon is releasing it in Sept/Oct in NYC although that's not official and Sprint much later. The nice thing about EDGE versus EV-DO and 1XRTT is that it works internationally and we're starting to look at that now as we expand overseas.

This is interesting because the every time I use my EV-DO card on the 1x network, the fastest speeds I see are 70-80kbps. But I guess I just don't know my speed ratings.