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Thread: 64K SIMS and ENS Phones Q&A (Resulting from Cingular and ATTWS Merger)

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    64K SIMS and ENS Phones Q&A (Resulting from Cingular and ATTWS Merger)

    Executive Summary: You don't need a 64K SIM, if you end up doing something that requires a 64K SIM, Cingular will make you get one. And Executive Washroom 3B is closed, the closest one is on 4A until 3B is repaired sometime next week.

    Okay all you non-executives who kept reading, and this applies to both Cingular and AT&T Wireless customers.

    I'm going to try and make this as comprehensive as possible, but I'm sure I'll get something wrong or leave something out, so if you KNOW you are correct, please pitch in corrections (If your getting your information from your sisters boyfriends brothers teacher who bought a cell phone last week and keeps asking why it doesn't have a dial-tone, don't bother passing along info you get from them)

    Starting on November 15th-ish Cingular and AT&T Wireless will become be presented toward the public as one company. This is called "Day 1"

    Since there will still exist two seperate networks, an Orange (formely Cingular) and a Blue (formeley AT&T Wireless) network. So that customers can get the biggest advantage of the two networks until they are merged into one, Cingular will be introducing a combination of virtual applications stored on a 64K SIM (most SIMS from before were either 32K or less) and Enhanced Network Selection (ENS) Handsets.

    Why introduce new equipment? What was wrong with the old stuff? Will my old phone still work on this new Cingular network?

    Chill man/girl, not to worry. Everyones phone will still work, in fact after Day 1 if there used to be both Cingular and ATTWS in your town, you will probably get better reception that you used to, with even more improvement in the future.

    So what does the combo of 64K SIM and ENS give me?
    As a consumer you may not notice a difference, or even care to get new equipment. About the only improvement you would see might be in battery life because your phone stops scanning for a differnet network ever 6 minutes.

    Scan for a different network every 6 minutes?
    That's right. There are these things called "MNC" that is like a "network identifier". This isn't nothing you need worry about. But right now ATTWS has an MNC of 310380, and Cingular has 3 MNC's spread out over the US (310410 and two others but I can't remember). Eventually Cingular will move all the towers/networks to 310410 but until then there needs to be a way for Cingular to "home" different subscribers on the different networks and move them back and forth, without the user having to do anything, or even being aware of what's going on.

    Now who NEEDS a 64K SIM and ENS Equipment?
    Nobody. But any new phone you buy from Cingular after Day 1 should have ENS and most new SIMS will be a 64K SIM.

    However for Cingulars purposes, the customers that Cingular will want to sell this new equipment primarily to will be former AT&T Wireless customers ESPECIALLY if they are in an area where there are only former AT&T Wireless towers and no Cingular towers.

    Why them?
    Because basically what a 64K SIM and ENS enabled Handset does is "fake" a different network for a phone to "home" on.
    Cingular needs to do this to load balance between the two networks and give them time to transition all the old MNC's to 310410

    What happens if I have JUST a 64K SIM but not an ENS enabled phone?
    Your phone will act like it did if you put a 32K SIM in it. Use whatever network is in your area, and then scan for a new network every 6 minutes.

    What happens if I have JUST an ENS enabled phone and a 32K SIM?
    Your phone will act like it did if you were using a non-ENS enabled phone. Use whatever network is in your area, and then scan for a new network every 6 minutes.

    Well if all this isn't really necessary for me, and really is the best advantage to the company, why am I getting one?
    Because if you are a former AT&T Wireless customer and want to move to one of the new rollover plans you MUST migrate to a 64K SIM and ENS combo.

    What if I have unlocked my AT&T Wireless phone, do I have to migrate to this new stuff?
    Yes. Of course you could keep your ATTWS handset, get this new Cingular ENS handset and 64K SIM and then just take the 64K SIM out and put it back into your old ATTWS handset, and you always have this backup phone handy.
    However I would not recommend that option.
    "They" say that you can get up to $150 if you return an ATTWS handset if it's high end and still in pretty good condition. Then use that credit toward getting one of these new Cingular phones.
    -kilo <<I used to work as a Customer Service Representative and then as a Tier II Technical Support Representative for Cingular Wireless LLC most of my info you can associate with TX OK AR KS MO>>

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    Oh right, one more last thing to add:

    Will current Cingular customer have to move to new equipment to gain advantage of the blue network (formerly AT&T Wireless towers)?

    No

    Will current Cingular customer have to get new equipment to change to new rate plans?

    If you are a Cingular customer and have a GSM phone that is both 850 AND 1900 MHz bands that's all it takes to move to one of the new nationwide plans coming out on November 15th.

    Next time you buy a new phone it will probably be a 64K SIM and ENS Equipment, just FYI.

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    okay, another thing:

    Everyone who isn't getting all this new equipment doesn't need to do a thing. Updates will be sent out "over the air" that will update the phones to search for Cingular 310410 then the other Cingular systems, and then for "blue network" 310380.

    Then once all the networks get updated it will be setup to search for 310410 and then for other companies (like T-Mo or Cellular One or Triton PCS depending on what area you are in)

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    its about time Cingular finally gets their act in gear and starts using one MCC/MNC instead of 20. When they finally re-label their towers with one standard MNC code US WIDE, it makes it a lot easier for non cingular customers to identify cingular network on their Fieldtest/Net Monitor mode.
    I put the "HO" back in "HOFO"

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    Re: 64K SIMS and ENS Phones Q&A (Resulting from Cingular and ATTWS Merger)

    Originally posted by kilo
    Cingular has 3 MNC's spread out over the US (310410 and two others but I can't remember)
    310-150 in the DCS region and 310-170 in the west.

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    Re: 64K SIMS and ENS Phones Q&A (Resulting from Cingular and ATTWS Merger)

    Originally posted by kilo
    Eventually Cingular will move all the towers/networks to 310410
    Is there an ETA on this happening?

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    Re: Re: 64K SIMS and ENS Phones Q&A (Resulting from Cingular and ATTWS Merger)

    Originally posted by toolhead
    Is there an ETA on this happening?
    not that they've told me, and i don't really have a good guess either

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    Originally posted by kilo
    okay, another thing:

    Everyone who isn't getting all this new equipment doesn't need to do a thing. Updates will be sent out "over the air" that will update the phones to search for Cingular 310410 then the other Cingular systems, and then for "blue network" 310380.

    Then once all the networks get updated it will be setup to search for 310410 and then for other companies (like T-Mo or Cellular One or Triton PCS depending on what area you are in)
    Wait, once this dump all current Cingular Blue customers on to the Orange network? Won't this cause network overload, espically in places where Cingular Orange is very strong (i.e. i never lose signal). Its ×××× near impossible here after a football game to get a call thru, do we really need twice as many subscribers on it?

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    Originally posted by erub
    Wait, once this dump all current Cingular Blue customers on to the Orange network? Won't this cause network overload, espically in places where Cingular Orange is very strong (i.e. i never lose signal). Its ×××× near impossible here after a football game to get a call thru, do we really need twice as many subscribers on it?
    Hey hey, hold up. Let me rephrase that:

    One day all of the radios out there that are broadcasting the MNC's beside 310410 will start broadcasting 310410 and all new network stuff going up will be 310410. So all the other networks will become the "310410 Cingular Network" so that it will have plenty of capacity to handle all the customers because it combining both networks

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    when at&t towers are dismantled or changed over to id: 310-41, cingular orange network will get the benefit of seamless capacity on one entire network. right now the capacity is split half on cing, half on at&t, so if cingular customers are maxing out the network, and at&t network is 50% unused, it would be inefficient to both.

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    what virtual apps are on the 64K sim?

    I notice with the 64K and Nokia 3650 I see "Sim services" being loaded when the phone is powered up.

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    Originally posted by kilo
    okay, another thing:

    Everyone who isn't getting all this new equipment doesn't need to do a thing. Updates will be sent out "over the air" that will update the phones to search for Cingular 310410 then the other Cingular systems, and then for "blue network" 310380.

    Then once all the networks get updated it will be setup to search for 310410 and then for other companies (like T-Mo or Cellular One or Triton PCS depending on what area you are in)
    When are they suppose to send out this OTA update?? On the 15th?? And does anyone know if the V551 is an ENS phone??
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    This is good info, Kilo, thanks! Can we get this stickied, it would probably prevent alot of useless threads being started...

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    Re: 64K SIMS and ENS Phones Q&A (Resulting from Cingular and ATTWS Merger)

    Originally posted by kilo

    What if I have unlocked my AT&T Wireless phone, do I have to migrate to this new stuff?
    Yes. Of course you could keep your ATTWS handset, get this new Cingular ENS handset and 64K SIM and then just take the 64K SIM out and put it back into your old ATTWS handset, and you always have this backup phone handy.
    However I would not recommend that option.
    This statement confuses me - you seem to be implying that by taking the new SIM out of your new Cingular phone and putting it into your old ATTWS phone, then you're all set - which implies there is no need to replace your ATTWS phone at all (assuming it's unlocked - which, for the most part, Cingular could easily do). Am I missing something? The ENS handsets you're talking about - do you have any idea which handsets that Cingular currently offers are ENS capable? Are any ATTWS handsets ENS capable? For example, both ATTWS and Cingular offer the 6620 - is it ENS capable?

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    Originally posted by Paolo
    when at&t towers are dismantled or changed over to id: 310-41, cingular orange network will get the benefit of seamless capacity on one entire network. right now the capacity is split half on cing, half on at&t, so if cingular customers are maxing out the network, and at&t network is 50% unused, it would be inefficient to both.
    Are you asking or are you telling? One of the benefits to Cingular of all this is that they can switch people back and forth from the blue network to the orange network until we finally get the brown network (okay we won't be calling it the brown network, but I thought it was funny)
    Originally posted by powertoburn
    what virtual apps are on the 64K sim?
    3: An application that "fakes" a different home network; an application that keeps the phone from searching for a networks every 6 minutes; but I don't know what the third one is supposed to be for.

    If anyone knows which phones are ENS compatible, please post, because I don't know.
    Originally posted by shortyd999
    When are they suppose to send out this OTA update?
    They probably won't send it out to everyone at once. I would imagine everyone will get it within a few months of Day 1
    Originally posted by scottj
    This statement confuses me - you seem to be implying that by taking the new SIM out of your new Cingular phone and putting it into your old ATTWS phone, then you're all set - which implies there is no need to replace your ATTWS phone at all (assuming it's unlocked - which, for the most part, Cingular could easily do).
    That's just the thing. Cingular has no plans to unlock ATTWS phones. And you should be able to put a 64K SIM into an unlocked ATTWS phone and it work just like a 32K Cingular SIM into an unlocked ATTWS phone. But if a Cingular blue customer wants to get one of the plans with rollover, cingular will have them buy a new ENS phone with 64K SIM.

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